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Post by tokumei on May 31, 2022 21:59:40 GMT -5
Hello,
I certainly never expected to find a forum like this, but I'm happy that there's other people around that understand how this feels.
I'm female and I've been married to my husband for almost 15 years, when we were dating, my husband wanted sex all the time and I refused to have sex until we were married. He came from premarital sexual relationships and when we were first married, our sex life was quite good (as expected), but it just...dropped off.
I've tried to talk to him about it before and he told me that I showed him that there's more to a relationship than just sex--which is great, but I didn't know that meant sex went away altogether (or almost altogether).
Throughout our relationship, we've gone without sex from six months to two or three years at a time. I've tried to initiate, but after being rejected enough times, I don't feel comfortable doing that. My husband tells me to initiate and he claims he's "always up for sex", but it never actually happens that way.
What feels worse is that my husband seems to have more interest in starting something while I'm sleeping than having active sex with me. He doesn't try to have sex with me while I'm asleep, but he'll wake me up with some foreplay and by the time I wake up, he's ready to jump into sex and then it's over before I'm even fully awake. It's so unsatisfying. When I bring this up, he'll always claim that I actually started it in my sleep, something I have no way of actually knowing, but either way, it leaves me feeling worse than if we just don't have sex.
I don't know how to fix this, he brushes off everything I say when I bring it up, and from what I'm starting to see, a lot of times there is no fixing this...
I'm glad there's a community for us though, so thank you for that.
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Post by baza on Jun 1, 2022 1:10:43 GMT -5
Welcome to the group Sister tokumei . It looks like you've been reading a bit in here, that's a good thing and worth doing more of it. You are correct in saying - "from what I'm starting to see, a lot of times there is no fixing this...". That's the first hand testimony of many many members here. You will see in here the odd story where an ILIASM deal does a 180 (Sister lanie is an example) but for every one of those you see (and they are rare indeed) you'll see 20 or more where "there is no fixing it". Hope you derive some benefit out of the group.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 1, 2022 6:10:52 GMT -5
... for almost 15 years, when we were dating, my husband wanted sex all the time and I refused to have sex until we were married. He came from premarital sexual relationships and when we were first married, our sex life was quite good (as expected), but it just...dropped off.
... we've gone without sex from six months to two or three years at a time. I've tried to initiate, but after being rejected enough times, I don't feel comfortable doing that. My husband tells me to initiate and he claims he's "always up for sex", but it never actually happens that way.
...I don't know how to fix this, he brushes off everything I say when I bring it up, and from what I'm starting to see, a lot of times there is no fixing this...
I'm glad there's a community for us though, so thank you for that.
I'm so pleased to hear you found some supporting what you thought was a rare struggle (statistical collections suggest as many as 20% of marriages are sexless. 20%!). While fixes are rare, as Baza says, if it helps, I see recoveries about three times more often when it's the man refusing. Another ILIASM member jerri, solved her issue by having a boyfriend, staying married to her husband. They had their ups and downs, but it worked for a good long while. COVID made her arrangement challenging. Afew questions:
How often is he cheating you of enjoying the foreplay? That is, how many times is he engaging in this sex on his terms? Are you bringing up the infrequent sex? The groggy foreplay? Additional unhappy behavior? Is there a pattern of disregarding your preferences? (e.g. Does he always choose which restaurant to dine at?) If you copy your story and answer the questions on another category, you may get more responses and it will be read by more visitors to ILIASM and will help people in similar circumstances. "Choosing to Stay" is best if divorce is absolutely off the table. "SM Issues" is generally good otherwise. You can continue here, if you prefer, of course. Just a suggestion.
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Post by mastmatt on Jun 2, 2022 13:51:35 GMT -5
Hi, I am the HL H & ILIASM. We have been married almost 25 years, have two daughters, college age and are becoming empty nesters this fall 2022. I travel for work and am gone about half the time. Last year sex twice this year once so far. We are faithful Christians and attend church regularly and are active in our church. I believe my LL W has control issues but won’t admit it. It probably stems from her having to run things while I’m gone and a lack of respect for me because 1. of my “lack of engagement” with our daughters over the years (although I have a fine relationship with both), 2. My so called “ADD” (I can get distracted and unfocused but do not need medication IMO), 3. Anger over a home business I started but she never supported (it did take family time away), 4. Her opinion of me not being a good self starter or finisher of projects. She has been resistant to the idea of marriage or sex counseling previously. She is liberated in a way that thinks she has the right to refuse me sex at any time for any reason, besides the practical, standard ones. She doesn’t understand that refusing sex hurts me and communicates she doesn’t love me. I have coped by masturbating and using pornography (last 8 years) but last year I’ve started trying to stop both with mixed success (stopping porn more than M). Typically I ask for sex, get denied, then while traveling give in to M temptation. Sexual gratification is important, period. I would like individual and marriage counseling, haven’t take. The step yet but am getting closer. Any comment welcome! I am anxious about becoming an empty nester because having both daughters gone removed yet another excuse and gives us more time to focus on each other and I’m afraid of more refusals. I could have an AP if I was able to cross that bridge but I question whether the guilt would be worth it and if I would keep it secret or confess to LL W. When we do have the talk she has DARVO tendencies, very frustrating. Things literally have to be lined up like a perfect moon for her to be in the mood, very frustrating. We have been on probably half a dozen vacations and weekends together (just the two of us) and have only had sex ONCE on a weekend trip. I believe she can’t get over resentment issues to let her be free to desire me.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 2, 2022 21:41:39 GMT -5
Greetings, mastmatt. I'm glad you have found us, and sorry for the predicament that has gotten you here. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be a member of. If it helps, one of our long esteemed members, csl, has gone to great lengths to address the sexless marriage issue from a Christian perspective. His writings are thoughtful, and well worth a read. curmudgeonlylibrarian.wordpress.com/You will also find the subject addressed from a Christian perspective here. Just for the record, a few years ago I was a proud father of a Christian homeschooling family. You might want to review 1 Corinthians 7:5. If she isn't being a sexual partner to you, she is defrauding you. The traditional marriage vows also call for sexual intimacy, "to have and to hold," before "forsaking all others." You can't have monogamy unless sex is part of it. Forced celibacy is just as much a breaking of the vows as an extramarital relationship. Sadly, if you have to beat her over the head with her own scripture, you aren't going to get the kind of sex you should be getting in a healthy relationship.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 3, 2022 4:54:17 GMT -5
I could have an AP if I was able to cross that bridge but I question whether the guilt would be worth it and if I would keep it secret or confess to LL W. ... Things literally have to be lined up like a perfect moon for her to be in the mood... Read some stories around here and you'll see lots of common ground. An Affair Partner is a possibility, you say? Is divorce? APs sometimes cause divorces. By choosing one, you indirectly accept the other. Divorces can be caused by infidelity. They can also be caused by breaches of trust. If you keep your AP secret, you have both. The dishonesty can cause guilt of its own. Maybe the worse of the two. King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived and who possibly could live (no wisdom will exceed the divinely bestowed kind) had multiple wives. Was he sexual with all of them? Maybe not. Reversals of sexless marriages very often are preceded by credible ultimatums that a second lover will be engaged. Having a deadline seems to help too. Marriage counseling can be part of it, but the deadline will make the counseling more than just a delay tactic. An ILIASM member here named Baza counsels everyone in your place to make plans for divorce in case your spouse has that in mind already and uses your thoughts or actions to justify cutting ties. This can include taking inventory of all your assets/liabilities, estimating alimony/child support (college, for you), identifying a plan for where to live if you must physically separate, what you'll want to tell loved ones as to why you divorced, initial consult with a divorce lawyer (free of charge, for some lawyers) Sometimes this planning can be helpful in easing frustration. Taking initial action to fix your problem can be surprisingly therapeutic.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 3, 2022 15:07:56 GMT -5
I should also mention, mastmatt, that there's absolutely nothing wrong with blowing a nut. It's healthy. Um. Within certain limitations, like don't stick your hands in your pants at public venues, lol. I blow one or three a day, typically, but I do mix it up a bit by edging, which helps build stamina.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Jun 4, 2022 9:55:37 GMT -5
mastmatt welcome to the club. Safety in numbers and all that. Or at least comfort. I have a hard time wrapping my head around christian involved in the church and refusing to address the problem. I bet that is not what she would advise you daughters or church friends staring down the barrel of divorce. People are right, dishonesty and AP could lead to divorce as can the lack of empathy of your wants and needs and feelings. She is not honoring the marriage . My advice is go to individual counseling. After about 6 months see where you are at if you still want the marriage throw the gauntlet down on the marriage counseling. I wouldn't bother with sex counseling until she works through her resentment.If she can get past it and sex is still an issue then go to the sex counselor. You are right empty nest makes the elephant in the room bigger. That's the point where I left the marriage. Made it easier to go and harder to stay.
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cmac
New Member
Married
Posts: 3
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Post by cmac on Jun 5, 2022 5:28:55 GMT -5
So hard to actually write it down - I live in a sexless marriage.
We have been married forever, and the sex for years was more than incredible, it was life-affirming. It was "We argued rancorously all day but the sex we just had confirmed we were meant to be together" good. It was exploration and fantasy, love and desire, search and rescue, sanctuary; it was the best. He is ten years older and I knew from the start we had desire discrepancies but still I questioned myself. That is, "Why doesn't he want it as often as I do when it is SO great when we are together? What is the matter with me?" Not questioning my desire - we each held no ideas women were not supposed to like it as much as men or women shouldn't initiate or no sex during pregnancy/periods or whatever. Our sex was so good, though, and his responsiveness so complete, I did not comprehend why he would not want it more often (we had fallen into maybe every week, then every two weeks, then monthly - I started getting out the calendar and jotting it down to prove we weren't having enough sex - I know, classic mistake). In between raising our kids, and demanding work schedules, and a move every 2.5 years on average - he stopped initiating and left it to me every time. Then ED. Then confusion and arguments about seeing a doctor, finally taking Viagra (but he hated the side effects); then he started pulling away - not kissing me, not hugging me, not touching me - but pretending to everyone else we were the most happy, loving couple (in our family and friend circles, he is a hero, and noone would believe how broken we are). So we did what it seems everyone on this forum has tried - read, researched, argued & argued, shut down, saw doctors, went to marriage counseling, then to sex counseling. This took years, first to face talking about it with each other, then try different solutions, all the while with him saying, "Don't leave, I love you, I don't know what's the matter, it will get better" but also, always, REFUSING. Too tired. Too angry. Too depressed.
When I finally said we could take intercourse off the table (thinking the stress of ED was killing his desire) - we could still be sexually intimate, still do things to and with each other, I thought he would be relieved and start showing interest again. Instead, he cut us off completely. The only physical interaction we have now is sleeping naked next to each other in bed. I am becoming the person I said I would never be - resentful, angry, hopeless (I gave up on joy, there will not be joy) and I want to leave, but he insists he does not want me to go, that he loves me, that it will get better...
And now he is ill, and we are fighting that together physically, doing everything we can to maximize his energy and strength - but emotionally we are splitting apart, retreating to our isolated corners, instead of finding ways to get closer, be intimate with each other while we have time together - we are no longer sharing thoughts. I feel he squandered the time we could have been close, and instead of being loving and kind, I am more resentful, and I hate that.
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Post by jim44444 on Jun 5, 2022 6:17:48 GMT -5
cmac Your story highlights the pitfall of staying. Our partner may give an empty promise of "things will get better" but it only gets worse. We have more ailments and disease as we age. If we become a caretaker for our refusing partner then resentment will almost always consume us. Your choices are still the same today as they were yesterday. Why he has refused you for so long does not matter and is likely unknowable. You can still be his loving caretaker while obtaining emotional and physical support elsewhere. You do not need his permission to divorce or to outsource, you just need to give yourself permission.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 5, 2022 19:54:07 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum cmac...So much of what you wrote is relatable to me. My X and I had great sex and lots of it before we were married. After we married it just seem to slowly evaporated. Not all of it was her fault. I was in my 60's at this point and unbeknownst to me my testosterone was decreasing daily so I stopped innating for a while. Then I fixed my low T but she was happy not to have sex any more. Easy to guess the rest. My X insisted we were having lots of sex so I also started marking up the calendar to prove we weren't. Then she just moved the goalposts and like your H starting coming up with all kinds of reasons not to be intimate. I also tried the no PIV approach, but fared no better than you on doing other things. Quarterly turned out to be her preferred frequency. Your H falling ill doesn't make for a positive future. I also started feeling resentful and finally things reached deal breaker status and I took off my ring. She soon followed my action and we decided to divorce. I wish you well sticking it out. I am in the boat with Jim 44444. Who knows how long your H may fight through the illness It may be years or even decades. Will you squander those years as you feel has happened up to now? i decided to seek intimacy elsewhere and I don't regret the decision. Outsourcing can be done with or without his knowledge. It's your decision to make.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 6, 2022 6:31:51 GMT -5
(we had fallen into maybe every week, then every two weeks, then monthly - I started getting out the calendar and jotting it down to prove we weren't having enough sex - I know, classic mistake).... ... The only physical interaction we have now is sleeping naked next to each other in bed. I am becoming the person I said I would never be - resentful, angry, hopeless (I gave up on joy, there will not be joy) and I want to leave, but he insists he does not want me to go, that he loves me, that it will get better... I don't think the calendar is a mistake at all. Getting out the calendar is an objective check on our perceptions. "It seems like a helluva long time. Isn't it?" we think to ourselves. Knowing couples have sex every 3-10 days, then using a calendar can give you perspective. You have hard numbers. It's no longer "a long time". It becomes, "We have half / a quarter / a tenth of a normal sex life. (some of us that LIASM would report that those anemic frequencies were relatively frisky) On the second note, as jim44444 pointed out, you can potentially experience physical closeness and not leave your husband. ILIASM member jerri may have some tips on that. We have members, like you, in the medical trap. You'll find some kindred spirits here.
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Post by deadzone75 on Jun 6, 2022 11:55:45 GMT -5
So hard to actually write it down - I live in a sexless marriage. We have been married forever, and the sex for years was more than incredible, it was life-affirming. It was "We argued rancorously all day but the sex we just had confirmed we were meant to be together" good. It was exploration and fantasy, love and desire, search and rescue, sanctuary; it was the best. He is ten years older and I knew from the start we had desire discrepancies but still I questioned myself. That is, "Why doesn't he want it as often as I do when it is SO great when we are together? What is the matter with me?" Not questioning my desire - we each held no ideas women were not supposed to like it as much as men or women shouldn't initiate or no sex during pregnancy/periods or whatever. Our sex was so good, though, and his responsiveness so complete, I did not comprehend why he would not want it more often (we had fallen into maybe every week, then every two weeks, then monthly - I started getting out the calendar and jotting it down to prove we weren't having enough sex - I know, classic mistake). In between raising our kids, and demanding work schedules, and a move every 2.5 years on average - he stopped initiating and left it to me every time. Then ED. Then confusion and arguments about seeing a doctor, finally taking Viagra (but he hated the side effects); then he started pulling away - not kissing me, not hugging me, not touching me - but pretending to everyone else we were the most happy, loving couple (in our family and friend circles, he is a hero, and noone would believe how broken we are). So we did what it seems everyone on this forum has tried - read, researched, argued & argued, shut down, saw doctors, went to marriage counseling, then to sex counseling. This took years, first to face talking about it with each other, then try different solutions, all the while with him saying, "Don't leave, I love you, I don't know what's the matter, it will get better" but also, always, REFUSING. Too tired. Too angry. Too depressed. When I finally said we could take intercourse off the table (thinking the stress of ED was killing his desire) - we could still be sexually intimate, still do things to and with each other, I thought he would be relieved and start showing interest again. Instead, he cut us off completely. The only physical interaction we have now is sleeping naked next to each other in bed. I am becoming the person I said I would never be - resentful, angry, hopeless (I gave up on joy, there will not be joy) and I want to leave, but he insists he does not want me to go, that he loves me, that it will get better... And now he is ill, and we are fighting that together physically, doing everything we can to maximize his energy and strength - but emotionally we are splitting apart, retreating to our isolated corners, instead of finding ways to get closer, be intimate with each other while we have time together - we are no longer sharing thoughts. I feel he squandered the time we could have been close, and instead of being loving and kind, I am more resentful, and I hate that. Hello, and welcome cmac. There are a lot of things about your situation that will echo with many members, including myself. For me, the refuser-plays-the-hero situation screams in my face. My X was the epitome of a hero to her friends, to her millions of adoring co-workers, to her family and mine. When I finally made it known to my family that all was not well, one half flat-out told me it wasn't real, the other half basically went mute on the subject. While my family wishes the best for me, I know they are all wondering what I did to screw things up. And X's family? Doesn't matter, but I'm sure in their minds I run around spitting on the elderly and punching babies. But it doesn't matter. I tend to be suspicious of (everything) the ED card, as it always seems to be a convenient way to brush off sex while securing a measure of sympathy. Yes, of course there are a LOT of men out there with ED. Hell, I had a form of psychological ED at the end of my SM, where I'd spend so much time worrying about how long I would have to go between sexual interactions, that I was resentful DURING the one or two times we'd have sex a year. The last couple attempts were so bad, I couldn't even perform. Here is my issue with ED in your case: you are trying to compromise, and he still refuses you. You really don't want that person to leave? You really love that person and want them to be happy? You really mean it when you say you wish you could be intimate? Then you take the compromise. That he doesn't screams volumes. You sleep naked next to him, and he can't even take the time to caress your body, can't even let you know that he still thinks of you in an intimate way despite his alleged ED affliction? The games they play...the ED card or the kid card or the I-got-a-cold-don't-leave-me card or the "willingness" to jump through the useless hoops of endless counseling/therapy/reading that serves to only fill the pockets of others while bringing you no closer the life you want and deserve, to the life your refuser promised you in front of God and all your family and all those friends who hold them so very high up. I'd say I'm even more resentful today, now that I can view what was from the outside. How the F do we get swindled for so long? Why do we lie still while they shovel dirt on our bodies? J
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 14, 2022 15:01:53 GMT -5
cmac. Welcome to the club nobody actually wants to be a member of. I'm sorry you are at the point where you found ILIASM. But hopefully while you are here you will find some company and some empathy. There is lots to read and distract you. I'm sure you will soon consume some of the highly relatable content if you haven't already. I see myself reflected in a lot of your story although Im sure there are many differences. Resentment is a bitch. I spent more time wallowing there than I could have cared for. While it is probably necessary to process the resentment, my advice to anyone is to spend as little time there as possible. It is a waste of emotional energy as far as Im concerned. My mindset completely changed once I got over feeling resentful. My only regret is that it took so long. So do what you have to do to get over the resentment. Then you will free up a good supply of emotional energy to put into other things. So hard to actually write it down - I live in a sexless marriage. We have been married forever, and the sex for years was more than incredible, it was life-affirming. It was "We argued rancorously all day but the sex we just had confirmed we were meant to be together" good. It was exploration and fantasy, love and desire, search and rescue, sanctuary; it was the best. He is ten years older and I knew from the start we had desire discrepancies but still I questioned myself. That is, "Why doesn't he want it as often as I do when it is SO great when we are together? What is the matter with me?" Not questioning my desire - we each held no ideas women were not supposed to like it as much as men or women shouldn't initiate or no sex during pregnancy/periods or whatever. Our sex was so good, though, and his responsiveness so complete, I did not comprehend why he would not want it more often (we had fallen into maybe every week, then every two weeks, then monthly - I started getting out the calendar and jotting it down to prove we weren't having enough sex - I know, classic mistake). In between raising our kids, and demanding work schedules, and a move every 2.5 years on average - he stopped initiating and left it to me every time. Then ED. Then confusion and arguments about seeing a doctor, finally taking Viagra (but he hated the side effects); then he started pulling away - not kissing me, not hugging me, not touching me - but pretending to everyone else we were the most happy, loving couple (in our family and friend circles, he is a hero, and noone would believe how broken we are). So we did what it seems everyone on this forum has tried - read, researched, argued & argued, shut down, saw doctors, went to marriage counseling, then to sex counseling. This took years, first to face talking about it with each other, then try different solutions, all the while with him saying, "Don't leave, I love you, I don't know what's the matter, it will get better" but also, always, REFUSING. Too tired. Too angry. Too depressed. When I finally said we could take intercourse off the table (thinking the stress of ED was killing his desire) - we could still be sexually intimate, still do things to and with each other, I thought he would be relieved and start showing interest again. Instead, he cut us off completely. The only physical interaction we have now is sleeping naked next to each other in bed. I am becoming the person I said I would never be - resentful, angry, hopeless (I gave up on joy, there will not be joy) and I want to leave, but he insists he does not want me to go, that he loves me, that it will get better... And now he is ill, and we are fighting that together physically, doing everything we can to maximize his energy and strength - but emotionally we are splitting apart, retreating to our isolated corners, instead of finding ways to get closer, be intimate with each other while we have time together - we are no longer sharing thoughts. I feel he squandered the time we could have been close, and instead of being loving and kind, I am more resentful, and I hate that.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jun 14, 2022 15:17:18 GMT -5
mastmatt My sympathies that you had to find your way here to ILIASM. I always get mixed feelings about welcoming people to the board. While Im happy you have found support, it sucks to be in the predicament. While I don't know much about your situation, it sounds like you have given a great deal of thought to it and understand your situation well. Based on what you write, my initial impression is that you might want to contemplate turning some of that effort inwards and focus on you a little more instead of your spouse. Are you happy with you? If not what can be improved? Try to be the best version of yourself in YOUR own eyes. If your wife is not attracted to you at your best version, then there is not much you can do. This is oversimplifying of course. But investing in oneself is never a bad use of time. While you are here, I do hope you find some comfort and wisdom in the posts of others that have traveled down this path before you. Hi, I am the HL H & ILIASM. We have been married almost 25 years, have two daughters, college age and are becoming empty nesters this fall 2022. I travel for work and am gone about half the time. Last year sex twice this year once so far. We are faithful Christians and attend church regularly and are active in our church. I believe my LL W has control issues but won’t admit it. It probably stems from her having to run things while I’m gone and a lack of respect for me because 1. of my “lack of engagement” with our daughters over the years (although I have a fine relationship with both), 2. My so called “ADD” (I can get distracted and unfocused but do not need medication IMO), 3. Anger over a home business I started but she never supported (it did take family time away), 4. Her opinion of me not being a good self starter or finisher of projects. She has been resistant to the idea of marriage or sex counseling previously. She is liberated in a way that thinks she has the right to refuse me sex at any time for any reason, besides the practical, standard ones. She doesn’t understand that refusing sex hurts me and communicates she doesn’t love me. I have coped by masturbating and using pornography (last 8 years) but last year I’ve started trying to stop both with mixed success (stopping porn more than M). Typically I ask for sex, get denied, then while traveling give in to M temptation. Sexual gratification is important, period. I would like individual and marriage counseling, haven’t take. The step yet but am getting closer. Any comment welcome! I am anxious about becoming an empty nester because having both daughters gone removed yet another excuse and gives us more time to focus on each other and I’m afraid of more refusals. I could have an AP if I was able to cross that bridge but I question whether the guilt would be worth it and if I would keep it secret or confess to LL W. When we do have the talk she has DARVO tendencies, very frustrating. Things literally have to be lined up like a perfect moon for her to be in the mood, very frustrating. We have been on probably half a dozen vacations and weekends together (just the two of us) and have only had sex ONCE on a weekend trip. I believe she can’t get over resentment issues to let her be free to desire me.
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