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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Mar 4, 2021 9:16:37 GMT -5
Thank you mirrororchid , itme and sadkat for your support and understanding. You’ve given me food for thought. I think the being terrified of sex with him comes down to my not wanting to have sex with someone who’s not really that keen. It feels icky and wrong. I feel I shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to convince my own husband to toss me a bone (pun intended!) Surely when two people are in love the desire for each other is just THERE. I get that everyday stresses in life can get in the way at times, but I don’t think I’m wrong to expect that passion and desire *should* be an offshoot of loving one another. Maybe I’m just naive and a hopeless romantic. Maybe the passion I crave only happens in the movies. Maybe. But what I do know for sure - my husband has proven through his actions (or inaction!), throughout the entirety of our relationship, that he rarely desires sex with me. The question is - how long can I continue living like this? I deserve better. Hello seashells, Many parts of your postings ring familiar bells for me ; He's always 'too tired, too stressed' . you've given up initiating because you get rejected when you do. etc I reckon you've got the nail on the head about why you're 'terrified of having sex with him now'. Yep, wanting to sleep with somebody who *doesn't* want to sleep with you feels totally wrong. You may get physical release from the sex, but mentally it's painful. *Begging* for sex makes you feel abject, pathetic and an object of pity. NOBODY wants to feel like that. And with frequent rejection, all that pains for nothing anyway.... (this may be a bit 'sexist' of me, but I think women feel this a bit more strongly than men do. Women have usually been brought up [in my age group anyway- I'm quite old!] to believe that men are 'always up for it', just need to be given a wink and they're raring to go. If the men *aren't* raring to go it must be because the *woman* is sooo unattractive he just can't bring himself to touch her. i.e. it's *her* fault! I do know this is complete bollocks and all humans, male and female, have different levels of libido and sexuality, but it's hard to get over the 'potty-training' of believing in the 'hype' of male sex-drive) Also the thought of re-connecting with your h is a scary idea. You're mentally pulling away from him, so why would you wish to re-connect with somebody who has hurt you? The fear is they'll do it again... You mention your anger; your h says it your anger that's turning him off now. In my opinion that's an excuse. If you weren't angry, he'd think of something else to blame. (But if you *weren't* angry, you may end up in an even worse place ; I didn't get angry: I got clinically obese and clinically depressed. I wish *I'd* been angry back then....) He may just be asexual but unable to admit it to you, or even himself, because it is so 'not what men are supposed to be like' ? ('male sex-drive hype') Other things he can't admit to; maybe he prefers other men? Maybe he's having affairs? or maybe it's the old porn story....? Does your h use porn? (most normal men do to a certain extent) The problem with porn is in over-usage. Over usage leads to both physical problems with having sex (they haven't got the gas left in the tank to get it up) and mental problems with the imagery around sex (most normal women don't look anything like porn actresses : this also badly screws up the self-confidence of the female sex partner!) and normal sexual behaviour being a bit *dull* compared with all the infinite variety available on the internet. Communication is the only way to resolve the problems (with a good resolution or a bad one. Anythings better than the current impasse) You've tried talking. He doesn't want to. I wish I could help, but I've no idea how to make somebody *want* to talk openly and honestly xx
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 4, 2021 10:25:21 GMT -5
@seashell it is not unusual to fear or dread sex with the refuser. It happens a lot. With the anger and hurt and no intimacy you become physical strangers. I literally got to the point I cringed if he brushed up against my breast on accident. One day in a fit of rage I told him I would rather be staked out in the yard and let strangers take turns with me. ( A little over the top but I was having a moment)
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Post by seashells on Mar 4, 2021 11:08:38 GMT -5
Since you sound as though you're on "The College Plan" (staying for the kid), you may want to look at jerri 's marriage as a possible model. Several ILIASM wives have found their interest wanes due to the lack of being desired. The husbands will often, even usually, turn down pity sex too. How naive is expecting enthusiastic passion? You can check out the stories of "Oppositeland" that abound when ILIASM members have checked in after they left their refusers. Granted, maybe time will change all that, but the libidos are supposed to simmer down at roughly the same time with roughly the same amount. That's the fairy tale. Given the advent of birth control, I'm unsure why society hasn't shifted to teh idea that it's okay to adopt the "dessert first" form of relationships. A conscious decision to date someone for 2-5 years and switch partners when you're gotten everything from it you hoped for. 2 if you need the raw physical lustful attraction the whole time. 5 if you want to know this person's inner soul thoroughly, but the lifelong companion part isn't a selling point. Maybe there's money in a romcom about a glorious relationship with a blissful, amiable, loving parting that's planned in advance? Every movie makes it sound like any relationship ending in anything but a coffin is a waste of time. Many relationships that end with a coffin would get one star reviews. "Bummed me out." --Roger Ebert "I might have liked it if I missed a good part when I fell asleep." --Gene Siskel. "I could watch this every night. In fact, I usually do, and no return fees!" --Rolling Stone I agree with this 'dessert first' idea! Sounds perfect! After everything I've been through I think marriage/longevity is the pits! Better to enjoy the lusty early days and then move on. (Me and H never even had lusty early days. Why didn't I walk away then?! 🤦🏻♀️ Too young, too dumb. Oh well, as Maya Angelou said - "when you know better, you do better" ) And thanks for your movie reviews - they made me laugh! I needed that today! 🤣👍
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Post by seashells on Mar 4, 2021 11:24:01 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum thanks for your response. I completely agree that we're taught that men are always up for it. That's been a hard thing for me to get my head around - that my H and I seem to be the exact opposite of what society says we're *supposed* to be. My H is so un-sexual that I think he needs me to always initiate, always take the lead, but I now realise that I want a man with an active desire for me. I want equality when it comes to initiating things / making things happen. I want a man who knows what he wants and knows what I want and WANTS to satisfy me in the ways I need and desire. My H isn't like that. You are right that communication is key. I've tried many, many, many times over the years to encourage him to open up. He won't. He just resorts to the usual "I'm tired all the time", "I don't know what to say". I'm so sick of his silence. He's a grown man for f's sake. Surely he knows a thing or two about his own body and mind?!? 😖 He says he's not gay. And has no trauma in his past. As for porn - I have no idea. He doesn't talk about masturbation. He does have a physical dysfunction - delayed ejaculation. So I'm guessing this has caused shame for him and probably why he's closed himself off to sex. Of course, over the years I've read books and tried various things to try to help him understand what's holding him back physically. He's done no reading, never seen a doctor. Won't talk about it. You can see why I'm so frustrated, resentful and angry huh!
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Post by seashells on Mar 4, 2021 11:26:42 GMT -5
@seashell it is not unusual to fear or dread sex with the refuser. It happens a lot. With the anger and hurt and no intimacy you become physical strangers. I literally got to the point I cringed if he brushed up against my breast on accident. One day in a fit of rage I told him I would rather be staked out in the yard and let strangers take turns with me. ( A little over the top but I was having a moment) Thanks for your response angeleyes65. Oh i totally relate to the cringing - if H grabs my breast or butt (which happens rarely!) I feel so yuck about it.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Mar 4, 2021 12:41:15 GMT -5
gladifoundthisforum thanks for your response. I completely agree that we're taught that men are always up for it. That's been a hard thing for me to get my head around - that my H and I seem to be the exact opposite of what society says we're *supposed* to be. My H is so un-sexual that I think he needs me to always initiate, always take the lead, but I now realise that I want a man with an active desire for me. I want equality when it comes to initiating things / making things happen. I want a man who knows what he wants and knows what I want and WANTS to satisfy me in the ways I need and desire. My H isn't like that. You are right that communication is key. I've tried many, many, many times over the years to encourage him to open up. He won't. He just resorts to the usual "I'm tired all the time", "I don't know what to say". I'm so sick of his silence. He's a grown man for f's sake. Surely he knows a thing or two about his own body and mind?!? 😖 He says he's not gay. And has no trauma in his past. As for porn - I have no idea. He doesn't talk about masturbation. He does have a physical dysfunction - delayed ejaculation. So I'm guessing this has caused shame for him and probably why he's closed himself off to sex. Of course, over the years I've read books and tried various things to try to help him understand what's holding him back physically. He's done no reading, never seen a doctor. Won't talk about it. You can see why I'm so frustrated, resentful and angry huh! Delayed ejaculation!! So did my h. As soon as he stopped doing the porn everyday, this fixed itself... (by the way I'm now in a 'reset' ; i.e. I have a sex-life again, though I'm under no illusions that it's all fixed for good and happy ever after etc.....) How old is your H? Is he old enough to have been an adult male *without* the help of the internet for porn? I'm reasonably prepared to believe that your h has been overdoing porn..... I'm not so suprised he doesn't talk about it though; After all 'wanker' is a term of great insult (though nearly all humans do it to a greater or lesser degree....) so he's not going to want it applied to himself, is he? I hope I'm not about to offend the male members of this forum but: I reckon that if a man has NO sex, NO porn/masturbation, NOTHING, for a week or 2, he will go off like a flippin' rocket as soon as he gets the chance! (which is why very young men have night spills/wet dreams where their body does it for them with no help from their conscious mind at all, simply to make way for the next 'batch' off the 'production line'.) Also, in the times before porn of any sort (printed, film or anything at all) was widely available, the fact that women had huge numbers of children wasn't just down to the lack of contraception. I believe it was *also* down to the lack of sexual distraction for their menfolk.
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Post by worksforme2 on Mar 4, 2021 12:59:58 GMT -5
He does have a physical dysfunction - delayed ejaculation. So I'm guessing this has caused shame for him and probably why he's closed himself off to sex. Of course, over the years I've read books and tried various things to try to help him understand what's holding him back physically. He's done no reading, never seen a doctor. Won't talk about it. You can see why I'm so frustrated, resentful and angry huh! Can you be more specific describing "delayed ejaculation"? Are either of you talking about PIV that takes more than an hour? I'm sure many men (including me) are somewhat long winded when having sex. I don't know what constitutes "delayed" but 45 minutes to an hour is pretty common I think.
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Post by Handy on Mar 4, 2021 13:02:13 GMT -5
GladIfoundthisforum the fact that women had huge numbers of children wasn't just down to the lack of contraception. I believe it was *also* down to the lack of sexual distraction for their menfolk.
In addition to what you said, more children died back then and many more people lived on farms. More kids meant more workers when the children got older.
I am older and think that i am here because my dad wanted sex. My mother told me dad wanted another baby so she had sex with him. I am kid #7 so I say your idea that was *also* down to the lack of sexual distraction for their menfolk is correct.
I have observed "concerns about birth control measures not working, problem pregnancies and/or deliveries" also inhibits sexual activity and frequency first hand.
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Post by seashells on Mar 4, 2021 14:07:59 GMT -5
Can you be more specific describing "delayed ejaculation"? Are either of you talking about PIV that takes more than an hour? I'm sure many men (including me) are somewhat long winded when having sex. I don't know what constitutes "delayed" but 45 minutes to an hour is pretty common I think. From my reading on the subject I discovered that delayed ejaculation is PIV for a very long time, or an inability to ejaculate no matter how long PIV goes on for. This is the case for my H. It’s my guess that this is due to him getting used to a strong hold during masturbation, a strength that a vagina just can’t provide.
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Post by h on Mar 4, 2021 14:20:22 GMT -5
@seashell it is not unusual to fear or dread sex with the refuser. It happens a lot. With the anger and hurt and no intimacy you become physical strangers. I literally got to the point I cringed if he brushed up against my breast on accident. One day in a fit of rage I told him I would rather be staked out in the yard and let strangers take turns with me. ( A little over the top but I was having a moment) Thanks for your response angeleyes65 . Oh i totally relate to the cringing - if H grabs my breast or butt (which happens rarely!) I feel so yuck about it. I get that too. It's now awkward and uncomfortable if my wife tries to put her hand on my leg while riding in the car. I usually move my hand down to hold hands instead. That seems less awkward. She hasn't figured out yet that I'm not doing it because I want to hold hands so much as that I don't want her rubbing my leg. She's more like my sister now than a spouse.
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Post by gladifoundthisforum on Mar 4, 2021 14:24:22 GMT -5
Can you be more specific describing "delayed ejaculation"? Are either of you talking about PIV that takes more than an hour? I'm sure many men (including me) are somewhat long winded when having sex. I don't know what constitutes "delayed" but 45 minutes to an hour is pretty common I think. From my reading on the subject I discovered that delayed ejaculation is PIV for a very long time, or an inability to ejaculate no matter how long PIV goes on for. This is the case for my H. It’s my guess that this is due to him getting used to a strong hold during masturbation, a strength that a vagina just can’t provide. Oh yeah... known as the 'death grip'! i think that's pretty common.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 4, 2021 16:58:54 GMT -5
My boyfriend also from a sexless marriage has said the exact same words about his wife. She's was more like a sister so made her touching him awkward. Of course it didn't help that she literally said you're like a brother to me. I think she is was trying to gross him out so he wouldn't try. It worked!
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jack
New Member
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Post by jack on Mar 10, 2021 18:55:59 GMT -5
Married 35 years to the woman I love. Dealt with the obligatory sex for several years but that makes me feel guilty so I stopped approaching her when she admitted she really has no desire or "sex drive". No real affection which is difficult for me. Casual kiss on the lips when leaving the house but nothing more. Never touches me or cuddles in bed and I honestly miss the affection almost as much as the crazy sex we enjoyed when we first met. Tried to talk to her about what else I can do but she maintains that she simply has no interest. I've never been unfaithful but do engage in some porn to keep me from resenting her more. Tried to encourage soft "women's porn" viewing but she's not interested in that. We're an older couple (she 6 years younger than me) but I really miss the intimacy and affection. When I watch porn I don't fantasize about having sex with the women I picture her in those situations. I've tried to stop porn and have done so for a few months at a time but always fall back to it in frustration. I will never leave her.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 10, 2021 19:03:04 GMT -5
jack. Welcome. Great place to vent your frustrations. Did this start after menopause? I will never understand how because one person doesn't have the need they feel no desire to help with the person they loves needs. And I REALLY don't understand why affection goes out the window with it. I know in my bf's case his ex-wife gave up affection to avoid sex but if you've given up intiating ... Have you tried telling her you are willing to forgo sex if that's her choice but you would like to get the affection back otherwise you are roommates. Best if luck to you. That is sweet that you picture your wife when using porn got relief. She's a lucky woman
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Post by baza on Mar 10, 2021 19:41:06 GMT -5
Brother jack . You may get more traction by posting in the 'Sexless Marriage Issues' area (as posts in this 'Welcome' area tend to get lost or overlooked). Anyway, welcome to the group, hope you can derive some useful input out of it.
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