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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 17, 2020 20:09:07 GMT -5
Do you know how a divorce would shake out for you in your jurisdiction Brother mirrororchid ? When you introduce a 3rd party into an already struggling situation, it is inevitably a game changer - but you don't know (and cannot know) what direction the situation might veer off to. Of the assorted permutations in these "3rd party involved" situations, divorce is the most likely outcome (at the instigation of one of you - not necessarily you) so it is not a bad idea to get yourself a heads up from a lawyer. I'm not wholly certain about how divorce would roll, Baza. I have made my plans while accepting that she may pull that trigger, though. We have no custody issues, my youngest is 19. We can split assets if she insists. I can buy a tiny condo for cash and be substantially happier than I am cleaning this whole house by myself. (I mentioned my wife is clinically depressed, right?) I'd be displeased to be suspected of "failing" at my marriage, given the sexlessness. I would very much miss the family reunions on her side of the family and the terrific friendships I have with several nieces, nephews, and brothers and sisters in law, not to mention my father in law. That may work against her too, though. Enough of her family likes me that there'll be uncomfortable questions. She'll know the truth and have to commit major lies of omission. "He cheated on me." she'll say. Maybe it'll stop there and she'll hide her secret shame. My daughter might ask me though. Why, dad? You think I won't tell her? Cuz I will. Does my wife want my daughter to know she's a refuser who refused to seek treatment and destroyed her marriage because she didn't want me to be happy even if she didn't want the sex for herself? I give it decent odds she'll either straighten up and seek proper medical help, or keep her lips zipped and enjoy a devoted husband who doesn't pester her and is affectionate in every way she likes and none she doesn't. Seriously, if you ignore American social expectations, she'll have a really sweet deal. Can she dispose of social norms that cause so much trouble for so little apparent benefit? I'm rolling the dice that she can. For those inclined to see me as just looking for some strange, I'd already made peace with the idea of her getting a beau. Apocrypha and the Coolidge Effect make me think that she may find newfound amorous stirrings if she had a new fella interested in her. I find it criminal that no one is appreciating my wife the way I once did and still would, were she open to the idea more often. Her happiness would not detract from me, because it is not as though I would be receiving that affection were the other gent not around.
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Post by baza on Mar 17, 2020 21:38:56 GMT -5
This is NOT a suggestion that you leave Brother mirrororchid , but it IS a suggestion that you make a fully informed choice, and an observation about families and inlaws post divorce. Short term, there WILL be fall out. Particularly from immediate family. Thing is, most people will hear about the marital blow out, devote several minutes to discussing it and leaping to judgement, and will then turn to figuring out where they'll source toilet paper to survive corona-virus. Your deal will be yesterdays news real quick. Longer term - and presupposing your relationships with in-laws are actually pretty sound - no one will give a fuck about "who acted honourably", "who was right/wrong", "who was refuser/refused". No one gives a shit after a while. Least of all *you*. Potential fall out from family and friends is definitely needs to be "A" consideration in these situations. But, I believe, is very much a secondary (or lower) consideration. Sooner or later, everyone "gets over it".
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Post by saarinista on Mar 18, 2020 13:33:34 GMT -5
So mirrororchid are you saying it's been a 17 day stretch with no sex and you're back to considering divorce? I mean if your marriage totally sucks, okay. But it sounds like she is depressed ( and yes she definitely needs to get treatment for that and if she won't at some point you may have to pull the plug) and she DID attempt a robust reset. Then you were sick and it's been just 17 days since sex? I don't know but that's not very long. Andyway obviously you should talk to an attorney
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 18, 2020 17:54:09 GMT -5
This is NOT a suggestion that you leave Brother mirrororchid , but it IS a suggestion that you make a fully informed choice, and an observation about families and inlaws post divorce. Short term, there WILL be fall out. Particularly from immediate family. Thing is, most people will hear about the marital blow out, devote several minutes to discussing it and leaping to judgement, and will then turn to figuring out where they'll source toilet paper to survive corona-virus. Your deal will be yesterdays news real quick. Longer term - and presupposing your relationships with in-laws are actually pretty sound - no one will give a fuck about "who acted honourably", "who was right/wrong", "who was refuser/refused". No one gives a shit after a while. Least of all *you*. Potential fall out from family and friends is definitely needs to be "A" consideration in these situations. But, I believe, is very much a secondary (or lower) consideration. Sooner or later, everyone "gets over it". So, close ties with the in-laws are a secondary concern. I think I know one of the primary ones you're talking about. I guess I need to do a bit more reading. It could be a big waste of time if she agrees to open the marriage though. Divorces can drag out for years. There isn't time to focus then? Babe in the woods, that's me.
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 18, 2020 18:13:14 GMT -5
So mirrororchid are you saying it's been a 17 day stretch with no sex and you're back to considering divorce? I mean if your marriage totally sucks, okay. But it sounds like she is depressed ( and yes she definitely needs to get treatment for that and if she won't at some point you may have to pull the plug) and she DID attempt a robust reset. Then you were sick and it's been just 17 days since sex? I don't know but that's not very long. Andyway obviously you should talk to an attorney I'm not talking divorce at all. No plans to. I'm only talking about dating after 17 days. Sex on weekdays is rare, so it'll be 21 before it's likely to happen. If my wife wants to talk divorce, that's on her. If you missed my previous posts, I'm not sneaking either. I tell her when I'm dating. While not consensual, it is informed. While I may violate expectations, it should not be a violation of trust. (at least not the kind most affairs produce). So much damage is supposedly the cheated spouse constantly worried it'll happen again and never knowing if it already is. My intent is for her to know, unless she chooses to be ignorant with a don't ask, don't tell setup. To clarify the timeline. We went a month without. During that month was when we were on separate trips out of town and I was sick for ten days. Not happy about waiting a month, but the "excuses" were very very good ones. I held no grudge. Last year, in November, when I told my wife I'd be dating in January, she stepped up our pace to once every ten days. Now that we'll be hitting twenty; cutting that reasonable pace in half? I think the reset has lost steam. My second date with Kathy will be a platonic dinner. As a demi-sexual, I'm building some interest in her as a person. I plan to care about her while I bring her pleasure. I also plan to take some photos of her during dinner, maybe some mini-golf so she can post them on her OKC profile. Her pics are pathetic and she's having very little luck. Kathy is married & polyamorous, and my wife may keep her waiting a very long time. She's lonely and she shouldn't be strung along the way I think I may do over the next months or years. My wife may reset over and over again. If she wants me to be true that bad, I'm only too glad to oblige. None of us on ILIASM wanted our marriages to work out like this. I told her in Feb 2017 that I was done being celibate. She's had over three years to fix things, so... yeah, 20 days is too long and I'm going on a date. (if my tone sounded defensive or hostile, it's not the intent, and my apologies. I truly appreciate the feedback that may help me navigate a minefield.)
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Post by nyctos on Mar 21, 2020 14:03:38 GMT -5
So, my intro is about two years overdue...I think I find it difficult to convey fully.
My wife was my first sexual relationship. Actually when we first started I had been interested in her for a while and she was aware of it, but she wasn't interested in me until I started dating a different girl.
Yes, I kick myself often that at the time I didn't go with the other girl.
My wife and I had a really good relationship both sexually and emotionally for several years.-- first the two years while we we living together, and then for five years after we married. Then she got pregnant, and everything stopped.
While she was pregnant the first time I didn't want to put any undue stress on her. I told myself I could stand it for awhile. After the birth, I wanted to give her time to recover. And then she started saying that she was dry because of breast-feeding, so I continued to wait.
I thought I was just going to wait until she initiated again, but eventually I initiated. She seemed to enjoy it enough, and we had sex a free more times but she never initiated (before, she had initiated regularly).
For several years, I tried to figure out where her libido was -- at what point would she feel like she wanted sex? I couldn't believe the answer would simply be "never". During this time, if I ever brought it up she would tell me I had to approach her at the right time.
Eventually we wanted another child, and we had sex a little more regularly --'as in, a couple of times a month for three months or so. We wanted a girl, and she'd apparently read that the best way for her to have a girl was for her to be unaroused as possible, which meant no foreplay and shallow insertion.
After she was pregnant, the pattern repeated but I felt much less sure.
A third child was conceived the same way, and we both agreed that we wouldn't have any more children.
The sex never returned with regularity. The three-to-for month gaps became six-months, and I think 2012 was our first year with no sex (and no reason like pregnancy/nursing).
2013 was a year of promise -- as in, she promised sex if I lost a certain amount of weight. The amount was supposed to go down after the first amount, which took me a couple of months to achieve, but after U achieved it she decided to change the rules arbitrarily. I could come to no conclusion as to why she'd do this other than that she was desperately avoiding having even a theoretical obligation to have sex (and absolutely it was clear -- she did not want it). I had sex with her maybe three times after this, but it left me feeling depressed and lonely rather than satisfied each time, so the last time I initiated was in July 2015.
Needless to say, she hasn't initiated since then either. I'd caught her viewing porn since then, and once had a conversation with her where she thought it had only been a year since we'd had sex (it had been over the at that point). At one point I joked that I want sure if my dick would work any more and she seemed happy about it until I told her I was joking and knew quite well it worked.
More recently it causes me stress to be around her regardless of how she's feeling. If she's upset her anger and frustration will be turned on me at some point, and if she's in a good mood any vestigial feelings I have for her will just cause me pain (as in the refused kiss episode last year). So I fairly constantly feel like my hearty is
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 24, 2020 5:20:55 GMT -5
nyctos Thanks for sharing your story. I understand well the thought " I didn't think it would my never" I thought my first dry spell was a phase due to depression of being out of work but he still rented porn. That was hard to reconcile in my mind. That tells me the desire was there . The last time I figured it would blow over it didn't. Do you think she has no interest in sex or sex with you would be the question when you see her looking at porn.. What is your game plan stay, leave, put source? I'm guessing you still have young children. I'm sorry you are living this . Keep posting
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Post by missymiss on Mar 25, 2020 22:33:02 GMT -5
Hi everyone. New girl here, I’m from the U.K.
I’m not married but I’ve been in a serious relationship for almost 5 years. I am 26, and my partner is 13 years older than me. Over the years he has slowly lost his sex drive, he’s let himself go and to be brutally honest I don’t think I fancy him anymore.
For the past approx 2 years I’ve been trying to relight the fire in our relationship to no avail, I started to believe he was cheating on me and that’s why we weren’t intimate, embarrassingly I went looking and I mean I went looking! I didn’t find anything, I did confront him and he hasn’t cheated.
I did wonder if I was the problem. Although I’m young, reasonably attractive, I’m a larger girl, always have been, but I started to believe that me being more curvaceous than your average woman was the problem, even thought he met me like this. Turns out that wasn’t it either as we spoke about it.
He has never been the type to “jump” on me or be raging turned on, but I never expected to be in a relationship like this so young.
I have a high sex drive and a desire to be wanted and to want, I’m a very sexual person who gets turned on very easily, I love to please but he isn’t fulfilling my needs or my wants and it’s come to the point where I want out. I’m so young, and shouldn’t be feeling like this already. I’ll admit I joined a swingers site, out of curiosity really, I didn’t meet anyone, but the tons of messages I received and the attention my photos got really boosted my confidence.
This forum was spoken about over there and that’s how I found myself here! X
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Post by nyctos on Mar 26, 2020 15:12:08 GMT -5
nyctos Thanks for sharing your story. I understand well the thought " I didn't think it would my never" I thought my first dry spell was a phase due to depression of being out of work but he still rented porn. That was hard to reconcile in my mind. That tells me the desire was there . The last time I figured it would blow over it didn't. Do you think she has no interest in sex or sex with you would be the question when you see her looking at porn.. What is your game plan stay, leave, put source? I'm guessing you still have young children. I'm sorry you are living this . Keep posting angeleyes65 , thank you, I think a lot of us were surprised by our sexless marriages (certainly if I thought I was going into a sexless marriage I would have backed out). I don't know if it's that she's uninterested in sex or just sex with me, but I don't much care either way at this point. I kind of suspect she wouldn't enjoy actually having sex with anyone because of her need for control, but who knows. It doesn't much matter anymore, really. It would take a long time before I'd feel comfortable with having sex with her even if she expressed a desire. I basically have to get out. Even without any prospects of any other relationship. But, I'm going to wait until kids are all at least in college. I'll outsource if I can -- I may be getting a job where I'm about 800 miles away a little more than a quarter of the time, which may make that much more possible.
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Post by nyctos on Mar 26, 2020 15:47:09 GMT -5
missymiss welcome to the club no one wants to be part of. I would strongly, strongly suggest getting out, given that you're not married and have no kids. The statistics on turnarounds are quite grim. For many of us, it only gets worse over time.
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Post by baza on Mar 27, 2020 5:12:42 GMT -5
Hi everyone. New girl here, I’m from the U.K. I’m not married but I’ve been in a serious relationship for almost 5 years. I am 26, and my partner is 13 years older than me. Over the years he has slowly lost his sex drive, he’s let himself go and to be brutally honest I don’t think I fancy him anymore. For the past approx 2 years I’ve been trying to relight the fire in our relationship to no avail, I started to believe he was cheating on me and that’s why we weren’t intimate, embarrassingly I went looking and I mean I went looking! I didn’t find anything, I did confront him and he hasn’t cheated. I did wonder if I was the problem. Although I’m young, reasonably attractive, I’m a larger girl, always have been, but I started to believe that me being more curvaceous than your average woman was the problem, even thought he met me like this. Turns out that wasn’t it either as we spoke about it. He has never been the type to “jump” on me or be raging turned on, but I never expected to be in a relationship like this so young. I have a high sex drive and a desire to be wanted and to want, I’m a very sexual person who gets turned on very easily, I love to please but he isn’t fulfilling my needs or my wants and it’s come to the point where I want out. I’m so young, and shouldn’t be feeling like this already. I’ll admit I joined a swingers site, out of curiosity really, I didn’t meet anyone, but the tons of messages I received and the attention my photos got really boosted my confidence. This forum was spoken about over there and that’s how I found myself here! X It reads like you may have made an error of judgement in hooking up with this bloke Sister missymiss . The question now appears to be whether you complicate that error of judgement - by continuing on in the relationship - or you take the appropriate steps to undo that initial error of judgement. That choice is yours. Whatever you end up choosing to do, I'd suggest that you base your choice on what is in YOUR longer term best interests. If you do that, then you can't go too far wrong.
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Post by mirrororchid on Mar 30, 2020 5:45:23 GMT -5
I never expected to be in a relationship like this so young. The question now appears to be whether you complicate that error of judgement - by continuing on in the relationship - or you take the appropriate steps to undo that initial error of judgement. That choice is yours. Whatever you end up choosing to do, I'd suggest that you base your choice on what is in YOUR longer term best interests. If you do that, then you can't go too far wrong. Undoing the relationship isn't the only option. If he brings other things to the table and he's not horrified by the thought, she may seek additional company to supplement his. Some folks may have noticed I have a favorite ax I like to grind around here. The obsession of marriage equalling monogamy may cause unnecessary dissolution of beneficial, functional partnerships. The downside is, if you accept that, it makes it harder to break off relationships that have a prolonged and substantial net negative effect. If you're not forced to be committed to a single person, why cut off any partner? The emphasis on focusing on one's own interests, I beg to differ, can send you badly astray though. Much research has been done to suggest caring for others more than yourself tends to bring happiness. That said, co-dependency where your sense of sacrifice becomes the overwhelming majority of your sense of purpose is something to watch out for. Surely there are many marriages where, objectively, cutting a spouse loose will lead to a life most folks would think would be less filled with misery, poverty, and other ills. The sense of contributing to a society that does not discard the unlucky is not an insignificant quaint notion that brings about self-worth, community esteem, and gratitude in many spouses kept on through thick and thin. (while noting the existence of bitter, insufferable liability spouses that don't seem to get a clue)
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Post by saarinista on Apr 21, 2020 0:27:33 GMT -5
I agree with mirrororchid that the world needs to be more accepting of a new paradigm where marriage does not necessarily mean lifelong monogamy. However, right now, the world largely is NOT openly accepting of those other alternatives, though perhaps it would be better if we were. So, anyone considering discussing an open marriage can expect raised eyebrows and side eye from spouse, family and friends. So, open marriage is a term which IME is defined in different ways. If you want want, be sure to be very specific about ground rules in discussing how it would work out with your spise and potential other partners. And honestly, discussing it with an attorney first wouldn't be a bad idea either. If things end up in a divorce, you don't want your spouse acusing you of just screwing around and using that to possibly wrest additional damages in the settlement. We have people from many counties here. In the US, some states recognize alienation of affection as an actionable legal cause. Judges may see affairs as a reason for reduced or increased alimony. FYI, I'm not a lawyer. Please do your due diligence if you're looking at this route.
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Post by petrushka on Apr 25, 2020 17:38:36 GMT -5
I agree with mirrororchid that the world needs to be more accepting of a new paradigm where marriage does not necessarily mean lifelong monogamy. However, right now, the world largely is NOT openly accepting of those other alternatives, though perhaps it would be better if we were. So, anyone considering discussing an open marriage can expect raised eyebrows and side eye from spouse, family and friends. So, open marriage is a term which IME is defined in different ways. If you want want, be sure to be very specific about ground rules in discussing how it would work out with your spise and potential other partners. And honestly, discussing it with an attorney first wouldn't be a bad idea either. If things end up in a divorce, you don't want your spouse acusing you of just screwing around and using that to possibly wrest additional damages in the settlement. We have people from many counties here. In the US, some states recognize alienation of affection as an actionable legal cause. Judges may see affairs as a reason for reduced or increased alimony. FYI, I'm not a lawyer. Please do your due diligence if you're looking at this route.
The raised eyebrows and side eye from spouse, family and friends are not the only issue. -- I mean, when I had "The Talk" with my wife 11 years ago she said she expected me to take a lover, and had no objections. But: You have to be extremely lucky to meet someone who would be willing to BE the lover in that setup. Most people looking are looking for a permanent, monogamous relationship. The pool of people who would be willing to engage in a friends with benefits relationship without the possibility of marriage is much, much smaller. In my student days I ran into several, but 4 decades on? They probably still exist, but I don't think I am going to find them on dating sites .... in fact I haven't found anyone in 11 years whom I've 'clicked with' or been remotely interested in.
Brings this to mind:
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Post by angeleyes65 on Apr 25, 2020 19:03:15 GMT -5
Well, I was in a sexless marriage( obviously) never really knew that was a thing until I found the earlier version of this site. But I caught my husband on AFF as part of his porn addiction. I got on there too and figured out there are a whole lot of sexless marriage people around that don't want to leave but want sex. And single people that want sex but not marriage. Ashley Madison was a virtual dating pool for sexless marriage people. And amazingly enough I found people from every walk of life. Lots of blue collar workers and just as many professionals. So they are out there. I did not ask to open my marriage and he was too controlling to allow it.
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