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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:15:42 GMT -5
joy6016 - "So should I stay or should I try for 4 weeks? It doesn't seem like there's much hope..." In my opinion which means absolutely nothing, I think if you are still in love and attracted to him then what's 4 weeks or even 4 months. Divorce is a huge step and you should leave no stone unturned but like unmatched said prepare for rejection but look at it as evidence for your decision. Good point, bballgirl. It seems like more time isn't even a bad thing at this point; it's already been several years. I want to feel like I did everything I could. What if I try and he reciprocates (which he likely will), but it's still just bad/passionless? Ugh. I guess I'll try before coming to a conclusion! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:17:12 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right about that. I still take blame for it and I still feel like it's something about me, personality-wise, that he's turned off by. If he were a normally sexual guy, and if something about you turned him off so completely that he didn't even want to have sex with you- well before the marriage, and starting at the engagement - he would have dumped you. IOW, the idea that it's you, and it started at the engagement, doesn't hold any water. Yeah, I feel like he is attracted to me. I know that makes ZERO sense, but he's very picky about women he thinks are attractive. Even his family/friends said that he was far more picky than they ever were. I guess that's another argument for the gay thing. Sigh... |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:17:54 GMT -5
I completely agree. Some weeks I can go and not even think about it, and others I just want to scream.. Speaking from experience, it's possible to let that cycle repeat for decades. "Things aren't really as bad as they seemed last week..." Ugh, yes, I can totally see how that could happen, DryCreek. It already does and it's only been a small fraction of that time here. It's easy to keep justifying it...harder to do something about it. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:22:15 GMT -5
joy6016 , I finally got through reading the entire thread. Thought I would give my experience. I put down most of the fault for my sexless marriage to a lack of communication. My wife has a severe mental illness, not allowing her to tell me honestly what she truly feels or pay attention to me when I tell her. It's not that she won't - she can't. Being the human that I am, I get resentful of my wife's illness. While I know she is suffering, I cannot wonder if she can do more for herself and get mad when she can't. Her lack of understanding hurts me. When I finally had an affair, it was so wonderful to have a woman find me attractive! I know my wife does, but she never really acknowledges it. If she did, I don't know if I would believe her. Sex in its purest form is communication. You are telling your partner what a wonderfully attractive and fun person your partner is. A healthy sexual relationship needs communication to survive. In reading the threads, it sounds that you and your husband aren't connecting, and I don't mean physically. Of all the threads, the one that struck me most was that if you and your husband were to split, you wouldn't be friends. That to me was the most telling. IMHO, if you can't be friends, why would even be man and wife? I try to stay friends with almost every woman I have dated. I still consider my wife a friend and will love her the rest of my life. But right now, she cannot give me what I need from my wife. I stay because right now, I am her caretaker. Along with having an autistic son, my situation is very complicated. It would take a lot of money and care for me to leave. Thanks so much for your comment, obobfla. I'm so sorry to hear about your wife's illness and the tough situation of it all. You're a good person for staying with her and being her caretaker. That's definitely love, and something that I struggle with - obviously without any illnesses, but just the fact that people DO stay without sexuality and out of love. And I'm thinking of leaving... I'm glad you got the acknowledgement that you needed though! It does feel good to get that validation from someone outside of the situation, right or wrong. I agree that sex is a form of communication, and a way to bring us closer. I felt so much closer to him on all levels when we had a normal sex life. Even when it briefly comes back, it's a little better. The friend thing is tough for me too. I'd prefer to stay friends with all exes too, but it's not always what they want. He claims he couldn't handle it without feelings. You are right - we aren't connecting like we used to. On some type of friendship level, yes, but it's not the deep, intimate love that I'm craving - physically or emotionally. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 2, 2016 1:56:37 GMT -5
Wow joy6016. Never have I seen a new member post get 9 pages in 16 hours! It seems we here have all found something very compelling about your story. Maybe we all see our younger selves in you and want better for you. I don't even have time to read though it all... but these are all good guys and gals here and I hope you are able to find some comfort and perhaps see there is a future out there for you if you want it. Sending you love x |
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Post by lyn on Dec 2, 2016 3:37:57 GMT -5
Joy6016. Good for you for taking a step back and really looking at your situation in a rational manner. It is truly, IMHO, one of the most self-damaging situations one can be in. It's not impossible, from what I understand, for a sexless marriage to turn around. That being said, I believe the statistic for a true change back to "sexful" is somewhere around 1%.
I'm new to this forum also, however, stuck in a sexless marriage for 10 years and only now facing the true reality of the situation I never expected to be in. You are still so young - please be careful with what is left of your youth, and, more importantly, your self-respect. You deserve a happy, loving marriage that includes friendship of course, but certainly sex and intimacy.
Life is too short and the years add-up faster than you can imagine.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 2, 2016 3:52:31 GMT -5
joy6016 - "So should I stay or should I try for 4 weeks? It doesn't seem like there's much hope..." In my opinion which means absolutely nothing, I think if you are still in love and attracted to him then what's 4 weeks or even 4 months. Divorce is a huge step and you should leave no stone unturned but like unmatched said prepare for rejection but look at it as evidence for your decision. Good point, bballgirl. It seems like more time isn't even a bad thing at this point; it's already been several years. I want to feel like I did everything I could. What if I try and he reciprocates (which he likely will), but it's still just bad/passionless? Ugh. I guess I'll try before coming to a conclusion! Bad passionless sex is another thing to bring up too in The Talk. I would express to him that you are not talking about sex for the sake of sex, that you need FUN/ PASSION FILLED SEX. I remember once asking my ex if he wanted to watch porn together, thinking that might trigger something and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. It might be good to brainstorm a list like a bucket list that you can text back and forth over several days to get the juices and anticipation going. I have a FWB and we have been together for over 2 years now, we communicate by text and we schedule sex, ask each other if there are any requests, and we keep it fresh and fun. You each may have to step a little bit outside of your comfort zone to reignite that spark of making sex fun but reallly the key is do you each want to? That's the essential question for each of you and the answer will speak volumes. I'm naturally more on the submissive side but I have learned because I'm so comfortable with my FWB to step outside of my comfort zone at times to surprise him or sometimes at his request. Last month he came over for a couple of hours, shortly after Halloween and he sent me a text while he was on his way that said "I need you to be a little aggressive today". I answered with a very understated "I'll try". I already had plans for it to make it fun. I greeted him at the door in a black satin and lace nighty with a black boa (part of my Halloween costume - flapper girl). Took his clothes off while we kissed and left them by the front door, brought him to a chair sitting at the kitchen table and tied his hands behind his back and told him that the "I'll try was very understated". It was a fun afternoon. You guys both need to want to get that back. At least once a month the sex should be fun and creative and sometimes it's just a quickie or its passionate but he should want to get that back with you and if he doesn't then that's your answer. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 2, 2016 5:34:17 GMT -5
Next hypothetical... He sits you down and goes into a long and complex story. He had a traumatic childhood. He cannot get too close to anyone. He learned not to do that from his childhood. He loves you, but he can never be any closer to you than he is now. And the harder you try to get close, the harder he will push away. That includes sex. Because sex leads to intimacy and he is intimacy averse. He really does have a huge sex drive. He bleeds it off by whacking off with porn. Or prostitutes. Or he has been having serial one night stand affairs. Pick one. Pick the least objectionable. That's intimacy aversion (as best I understand it) Now, does THAT change things? Hmmm...yeah, I think it would, because I'd know I couldn't live with that and he would probably also feel that it wasn't fair to continue on. I can't see him doing anything with cheating, prostitutes, porn, etc. I work at home so I really don't think he has the time and he's always home if not at work! If you knew he were gay, you'd leave. If he were asexual, you'd leave. If he were intimacy averse you'd leave. We've covered all the commonly labeled sexual dysfunctions. Seems to me the only thing keeping you in the marriage is that you don't know why. If you could put a label on it, you're out of there. In the meantime, he has you frantically Why Chasing. And no doubt he understands, intuitively and based on your prior sex fights, that the lack of a good reason is the only thing keeping you hanging on. Because without a reason, you always have the last thread of a hope. As you are considering now, giving him "one last chance" so he can reset you a bit, and then keep the cycle running for decades. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 2, 2016 5:54:56 GMT -5
There are a few Ultimate Truths we've learned here.
- You can't argue your way into a good sex life
- You can't coerce your way into a good sex life (the spread em or else strategy)
- You can't reason your way into a good sex life
- You can't make someone want you that way
- You can't make someone love you that way
On the one hand, "one last chance" can't hurt, right? On the other hand, you will never escape your SM until you decide you aren't going to give him one last chance.
Overlying all of that, after fighting this for 5 years or more, how do you give him one last chance without running into the Ultimate Truths I've outlined above? One last chance is pure coercion. You know it, he knows it. No matter how you phrase it, it has to come out the same... "fuck me or else".
Good luck winding your way through this.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 2, 2016 7:33:10 GMT -5
Good point, bballgirl. It seems like more time isn't even a bad thing at this point; it's already been several years. I want to feel like I did everything I could. What if I try and he reciprocates (which he likely will), but it's still just bad/passionless? Ugh. I guess I'll try before coming to a conclusion! Bad passionless sex is another thing to bring up too in The Talk. I would express to him that you are not talking about sex for the sake of sex, that you need FUN/ PASSION FILLED SEX. I remember once asking my ex if he wanted to watch porn together, thinking that might trigger something and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. It might be good to brainstorm a list like a bucket list that you can text back and forth over several days to get the juices and anticipation going. I have a FWB and we have been together for over 2 years now, we communicate by text and we schedule sex, ask each other if there are any requests, and we keep it fresh and fun. You each may have to step a little bit outside of your comfort zone to reignite that spark of making sex fun but reallly the key is do you each want to? That's the essential question for each of you and the answer will speak volumes. I'm naturally more on the submissive side but I have learned because I'm so comfortable with my FWB to step outside of my comfort zone at times to surprise him or sometimes at his request. Last month he came over for a couple of hours, shortly after Halloween and he sent me a text while he was on his way that said "I need you to be a little aggressive today". I answered with a very understated "I'll try". I already had plans for it to make it fun. I greeted him at the door in a black satin and lace nighty with a black boa (part of my Halloween costume - flapper girl). Took his clothes off while we kissed and left them by the front door, brought him to a chair sitting at the kitchen table and tied his hands behind his back and told him that the "I'll try was very understated". It was a fun afternoon. You guys both need to want to get that back. At least once a month the sex should be fun and creative and sometimes it's just a quickie or its passionate but he should want to get that back with you and if he doesn't then that's your answer. I gained weight reading that! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 9:28:22 GMT -5
Wow joy6016 . Never have I seen a new member post get 9 pages in 16 hours! It seems we here have all found something very compelling about your story. Maybe we all see our younger selves in you and want better for you. I don't even have time to read though it all... but these are all good guys and gals here and I hope you are able to find some comfort and perhaps see there is a future out there for you if you want it. Sending you love x I know, eternaloptimism! I feel very lucky to have all of these amazing people to help me. I've never had this kind of support, and in just 1 day?! It's incredible. Especially from people who really do understand the feelings. I want better for myself too. One way or another, this is changing. He knows this. There isn't much time left for figuring it out. I know myself and know that I can't be doing this a year from now. Thank you again! <3 |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 9:31:03 GMT -5
Joy6016. Good for you for taking a step back and really looking at your situation in a rational manner. It is truly, IMHO, one of the most self-damaging situations one can be in. It's not impossible, from what I understand, for a sexless marriage to turn around. That being said, I believe the statistic for a true change back to "sexful" is somewhere around 1%. I'm new to this forum also, however, stuck in a sexless marriage for 10 years and only now facing the true reality of the situation I never expected to be in. You are still so young - please be careful with what is left of your youth, and, more importantly, your self-respect. You deserve a happy, loving marriage that includes friendship of course, but certainly sex and intimacy. Life is too short and the years add-up faster than you can imagine. Thank you, lyn! I agree that it has been very self-damaging. I know every relationship has issues, but I feel like a lot of things would've been easier to overcome than this (besides abuse, etc. because that's obviously a major problem). I don't doubt that the sexful statistic is 1%. I remember having talks with him back when this JUST started, and I told him that turning this around later would be much more difficult, and that it was going to impact other areas of our relationship. I was right! I wish it would've been taken more seriously from the get go. 10 years is a long time. I'm not at 10, but I think if I blink my eyes and don't change, I'll be there before I know it. You definitely deserve a loving, intimate relationship too, and I hope you find that. Life is short. That's what I keep telling myself. Whatever pain and embarrassment I would go through would be temporary and worth it over the pain of staying if nothing changes. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 9:41:08 GMT -5
Good point, bballgirl. It seems like more time isn't even a bad thing at this point; it's already been several years. I want to feel like I did everything I could. What if I try and he reciprocates (which he likely will), but it's still just bad/passionless? Ugh. I guess I'll try before coming to a conclusion! Bad passionless sex is another thing to bring up too in The Talk. I would express to him that you are not talking about sex for the sake of sex, that you need FUN/ PASSION FILLED SEX. I remember once asking my ex if he wanted to watch porn together, thinking that might trigger something and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. It might be good to brainstorm a list like a bucket list that you can text back and forth over several days to get the juices and anticipation going. I have a FWB and we have been together for over 2 years now, we communicate by text and we schedule sex, ask each other if there are any requests, and we keep it fresh and fun. You each may have to step a little bit outside of your comfort zone to reignite that spark of making sex fun but reallly the key is do you each want to? That's the essential question for each of you and the answer will speak volumes. I'm naturally more on the submissive side but I have learned because I'm so comfortable with my FWB to step outside of my comfort zone at times to surprise him or sometimes at his request. Last month he came over for a couple of hours, shortly after Halloween and he sent me a text while he was on his way that said "I need you to be a little aggressive today". I answered with a very understated "I'll try". I already had plans for it to make it fun. I greeted him at the door in a black satin and lace nighty with a black boa (part of my Halloween costume - flapper girl). Took his clothes off while we kissed and left them by the front door, brought him to a chair sitting at the kitchen table and tied his hands behind his back and told him that the "I'll try was very understated". It was a fun afternoon. You guys both need to want to get that back. At least once a month the sex should be fun and creative and sometimes it's just a quickie or its passionate but he should want to get that back with you and if he doesn't then that's your answer. Exactly. Just having the same boring sex will not work either. Of course it doesn't need to be over the top every time, but it needs to be passionate, and it barely is anymore. Wow, sounds like you have fun with your FWB! lol. I don't think I would/could ever do that kind of thing with my husband. We've never really been like that, and he's not overly into lingerie. I wish it was more fun and like you described, but it has never been. Even when it was good, it wasn't really "fun" in that way, or adventurous. I think if I brought it up, he would agree and say he would do that, but would it happen? I doubt it. We will at least have one more talk about the seriousness of this, and it will be something that's mentioned. Thanks for reminding me that it's not just about sex for the sake of sex. That could also be why I feel like I've begged and begged and it's just BLAH after it happens, because he's doing it just to say he did. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 9:43:24 GMT -5
Hmmm...yeah, I think it would, because I'd know I couldn't live with that and he would probably also feel that it wasn't fair to continue on. I can't see him doing anything with cheating, prostitutes, porn, etc. I work at home so I really don't think he has the time and he's always home if not at work! If you knew he were gay, you'd leave. If he were asexual, you'd leave. If he were intimacy averse you'd leave. We've covered all the commonly labeled sexual dysfunctions. Seems to me the only thing keeping you in the marriage is that you don't know why. If you could put a label on it, you're out of there. In the meantime, he has you frantically Why Chasing. And no doubt he understands, intuitively and based on your prior sex fights, that the lack of a good reason is the only thing keeping you hanging on. Because without a reason, you always have the last thread of a hope. As you are considering now, giving him "one last chance" so he can reset you a bit, and then keep the cycle running for decades. If I could put a label on it, it would be obviously something I couldn't live with. You're probably right about the lack of reason keeping me hopeful. Like it's just a communication problem, or we have walls up, or we talk about the "issue" too much. I'm starting to see that I've really done a lot to help this and try to make it better. Even if he thinks I've just blamed him, I haven't. I used to try (physically) a lot more to initiate and be "sexy." I've tried talking about it, not talking about it, giving tons of attention, giving no attention. Nothing changes anything. I've said I was leaving if this didn't change from almost the beginning. So really, this shouldn't be surprising. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 2, 2016 9:48:30 GMT -5
There are a few Ultimate Truths we've learned here. - You can't argue your way into a good sex life - You can't coerce your way into a good sex life (the spread em or else strategy) - You can't reason your way into a good sex life - You can't make someone want you that way - You can't make someone love you that way On the one hand, "one last chance" can't hurt, right? On the other hand, you will never escape your SM until you decide you aren't going to give him one last chance. Overlying all of that, after fighting this for 5 years or more, how do you give him one last chance without running into the Ultimate Truths I've outlined above? One last chance is pure coercion. You know it, he knows it. No matter how you phrase it, it has to come out the same... "fuck me or else". Good luck winding your way through this. All good points. And I really don't want to have to coerce him. I've said that so many times. Why do I have to beg? He says I don't have to. Yet, if I didn't say anything (and I've tried this by saying nothing for months at one point in time), it would not be discussed AND nothing would change. I get it.. I really do. It's nearly impossible to turn around, and if you do, it's brief or it's coerced. It's not really ever real again. I'm doing my best. I know I'm closer and closer to realizing the reality of it all, but it will still take a little bit of time to fully commit to leaving. |
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