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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 20:57:11 GMT -5
Next hypothetical...
He sits you down and goes into a long and complex story. He had a traumatic childhood. He cannot get too close to anyone. He learned not to do that from his childhood. He loves you, but he can never be any closer to you than he is now. And the harder you try to get close, the harder he will push away. That includes sex. Because sex leads to intimacy and he is intimacy averse.
He really does have a huge sex drive. He bleeds it off by whacking off with porn. Or prostitutes. Or he has been having serial one night stand affairs. Pick one. Pick the least objectionable.
That's intimacy aversion (as best I understand it)
Now, does THAT change things?
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Post by Chatter Fox on Dec 1, 2016 20:58:18 GMT -5
What if how I've behaved has contributed to this? I'm not trying to take ALL the blame here, but I haven't acted wonderfully once this started, and it got worse over time. I've been so angry in the past and probably said stuff I shouldn't have. I hardly believed myself sometimes. Can't that turn off sexual desire/expression for someone? Again, I refuse to take all the blame, but isn't it a possibility? It's normal to think of ways you may have contributed to the problem. Its a good thing to think of things within your control if you ask me. As a man with a lively libido though, I can assure you that being angry at my wife would probably not stop me from having sex with her. Especially if she's in the mood and it's been a while. I'd just have angry sex with her.  I certainly wouldn't say no though.... Actually... true story... just about 6 months ago, I was super mad at her. I was livid. I had just had yet another attempt to talk with her about sex several weeks earlier. The result of the talk was her basically telling me that she didn't like foreplay and basically just wanted me to cut to the chase from now on and get it over with. It pissed me off so bad. I just felt so defeated. I didnt want to even try anymore. I wasn't even going to initiate at all anymore. Well, she must have sensed that i was really checked out. It had been about a month and a half since we had sex. She initiated for the first time in forever. She knows I'll leave if things go too long between and she must have been getting nervous. Anyway, i didnt want to have sex with her. I was so frustrated and mad ... but she barely had to touch me and i freaking just jumped her. As much as I didn't want to, I couldn't help it. What can i say? I really like sex. I rarely get to have it. Even when things are at their worst with her and I, I can't help but jump at the opportunity if it presents itself. That's the difference between a man with a sex drive and one without. The one with a sex drive won't let anger stop him if it's been a while. |
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Post by Isabellas39 on Dec 1, 2016 21:03:23 GMT -5
I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating something.. I do understand your dilemma, but I think the fact that you don't have any kids together helps... I agree it's hard to leave something that's not working, but isn't this a damn expensive friendship ? The time spent just settling for a relationship that doesn't satisfy an important need you can never get again.That time is gone forever! Eventually, this changes who you are and you look in the mirror and can barely recognize the person looking back at you.. My husband is a great friend, but with each year that passes by it gets harder. I miss so much about being in an intimate relationship . I miss simply cuddling and kissing while watching a movie...Teasing each other knowing that it may lead to so much more..Staying in a SM just leaves you empty.
You seem concerned about what others may think...Are they living your life ? You have to choose what's best for you. Settling because it's our comfort zone, and allowing fear to keep you stuck is no way to live. You know what you can expect if you stay, but leaving at least gives you the opportunity to seek more ...In the end it's up to you, but make sure your decision is based on what you want and not about what others may think....
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 1, 2016 21:07:00 GMT -5
joy6016 - "So should I stay or should I try for 4 weeks? It doesn't seem like there's much hope..." In my opinion which means absolutely nothing, I think if you are still in love and attracted to him then what's 4 weeks or even 4 months. Divorce is a huge step and you should leave no stone unturned but like unmatched said prepare for rejection but look at it as evidence for your decision.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 21:12:06 GMT -5
A question, Joy: Why is it so difficult to envision him as gay, yet you are totally aware that he has no interest whatsoever in being intimate with you? Or apparently any of his exes  You are going to respond with some variant of "it must be me... I'm a bitch, I'm too tall, too short, too thin, too this, or not enough that... But in fact he married you, knowing full well he had lost all interest in having sex with you long before the marriage. The day of the engagement, in fact. He had all the time in the world to bail. And if he's not gay, and you're just not enough of something or too something else, he would have found someone worthy of fucking. At times like this, I always like to bring in Occam's Razor... Occam says the reason he married you is that you were the first serious GF he ever had that tolerated his sexlessness. You loved him that much. But now it's time to consider your Mulligan. ETA: I should have phrased my question differently... why is it more difficult to envision him as gay than, for example, asexual? Yeah, you're right about that. I still take blame for it and I still feel like it's something about me, personality-wise, that he's turned off by. He does say he can tell that we both have walls around the issue and we need to "heal." I didn't tolerate any sexlessness in the beginning because it definitely wasn't sexless. We got engaged when it wasn't, so how could it be that he only married me because I tolerated it? I didn't back then because it wasn't an issue! It's more unbelievable that he would be gay. I could see the asexual thing. Either option would be fine for ending things! You told us that the sexlessness started the day you got engaged. You were the first one that went the distance with him, including (presumably) eventually sexlessness, before marriage. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 1, 2016 21:24:20 GMT -5
Yeah, you're right about that. I still take blame for it and I still feel like it's something about me, personality-wise, that he's turned off by. If he were a normally sexual guy, and if something about you turned him off so completely that he didn't even want to have sex with you- well before the marriage, and starting at the engagement - he would have dumped you. IOW, the idea that it's you, and it started at the engagement, doesn't hold any water. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 1, 2016 21:47:51 GMT -5
I completely agree. Some weeks I can go and not even think about it, and others I just want to scream.. Speaking from experience, it's possible to let that cycle repeat for decades. "Things aren't really as bad as they seemed last week..." |
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Post by unmatched on Dec 1, 2016 21:48:02 GMT -5
Honestly I would be lying if I said I thought there was much hope. But you are still having doubts, and maybe some of those doubts are because you know you have also given up and backed off to some extent. So go full on and initiate as much as you can and see what happens. If you get rejected over and over then you will feel like shit but at least all your feelings will be on the same page! (OK, maybe make it 2 weeks ) Lol, will do! How do I know if it's legitimate or he's just going along with it? Will I have to be the initiator forever? I can't even remember what that's like.. That one is easy. If he is just going along with it he will only be able to sustain it for a week or two, 3 at the most. (Maybe 4 if he is superhumanly stubborn...) Then you will find yourself right back where you started, and you will know it is time to pull the pin. I also wanted to respond to, 'I still take blame for it and I still feel like it's something about me, personality-wise, that he's turned off by.' What if that is true? Why would you want to stay with someone who is turned off by your personality? I sincerely hope you are not considering trying to change who you are to get your husband to fuck you !!!!! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 21:51:01 GMT -5
Next hypothetical... He sits you down and goes into a long and complex story. He had a traumatic childhood. He cannot get too close to anyone. He learned not to do that from his childhood. He loves you, but he can never be any closer to you than he is now. And the harder you try to get close, the harder he will push away. That includes sex. Because sex leads to intimacy and he is intimacy averse. He really does have a huge sex drive. He bleeds it off by whacking off with porn. Or prostitutes. Or he has been having serial one night stand affairs. Pick one. Pick the least objectionable. That's intimacy aversion (as best I understand it) Now, does THAT change things? Hmmm...yeah, I think it would, because I'd know I couldn't live with that and he would probably also feel that it wasn't fair to continue on. I can't see him doing anything with cheating, prostitutes, porn, etc. I work at home so I really don't think he has the time and he's always home if not at work! |
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Post by obobfla on Dec 1, 2016 21:52:14 GMT -5
joy6016, I finally got through reading the entire thread. Thought I would give my experience. I put down most of the fault for my sexless marriage to a lack of communication. My wife has a severe mental illness, not allowing her to tell me honestly what she truly feels or pay attention to me when I tell her. It's not that she won't - she can't. Being the human that I am, I get resentful of my wife's illness. While I know she is suffering, I cannot wonder if she can do more for herself and get mad when she can't. Her lack of understanding hurts me. When I finally had an affair, it was so wonderful to have a woman find me attractive! I know my wife does, but she never really acknowledges it. If she did, I don't know if I would believe her. Sex in its purest form is communication. You are telling your partner what a wonderfully attractive and fun person your partner is. A healthy sexual relationship needs communication to survive. In reading the threads, it sounds that you and your husband aren't connecting, and I don't mean physically. Of all the threads, the one that struck me most was that if you and your husband were to split, you wouldn't be friends. That to me was the most telling. IMHO, if you can't be friends, why would even be man and wife? I try to stay friends with almost every woman I have dated. I still consider my wife a friend and will love her the rest of my life. But right now, she cannot give me what I need from my wife. I stay because right now, I am her caretaker. Along with having an autistic son, my situation is very complicated. It would take a lot of money and care for me to leave.
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 21:53:33 GMT -5
What if how I've behaved has contributed to this? I'm not trying to take ALL the blame here, but I haven't acted wonderfully once this started, and it got worse over time. I've been so angry in the past and probably said stuff I shouldn't have. I hardly believed myself sometimes. Can't that turn off sexual desire/expression for someone? Again, I refuse to take all the blame, but isn't it a possibility? It's normal to think of ways you may have contributed to the problem. Its a good thing to think of things within your control if you ask me. As a man with a lively libido though, I can assure you that being angry at my wife would probably not stop me from having sex with her. Especially if she's in the mood and it's been a while. I'd just have angry sex with her. I certainly wouldn't say no though.... Actually... true story... just about 6 months ago, I was super mad at her. I was livid. I had just had yet another attempt to talk with her about sex several weeks earlier. The result of the talk was her basically telling me that she didn't like foreplay and basically just wanted me to cut to the chase from now on and get it over with. It pissed me off so bad. I just felt so defeated. I didnt want to even try anymore. I wasn't even going to initiate at all anymore. Well, she must have sensed that i was really checked out. It had been about a month and a half since we had sex. She initiated for the first time in forever. She knows I'll leave if things go too long between and she must have been getting nervous. Anyway, i didnt want to have sex with her. I was so frustrated and mad ... but she barely had to touch me and i freaking just jumped her. As much as I didn't want to, I couldn't help it. What can i say? I really like sex. I rarely get to have it. Even when things are at their worst with her and I, I can't help but jump at the opportunity if it presents itself. That's the difference between a man with a sex drive and one without. The one with a sex drive won't let anger stop him if it's been a while. Haha, I think most guys probably have more sex drive and that's an interesting story! I wouldn't put it past a lot of guys, and I think it's probably normal to want to have sex most of the time. I'm not even sure it's ANGER he feels towards me, but frustration at both of us for being unable to "fix" it and have to keep discussing it. I mean, in the past, there have been months that went by without any sort of talk and it didn't seem to help things, so I think it's an excuse that the talking/issue of it is the problem. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 21:59:09 GMT -5
I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating something.. I do understand your dilemma, but I think the fact that you don't have any kids together helps... I agree it's hard to leave something that's not working, but isn't this a damn expensive friendship ? The time spent just settling for a relationship that doesn't satisfy an important need you can never get again.That time is gone forever! Eventually, this changes who you are and you look in the mirror and can barely recognize the person looking back at you.. My husband is a great friend, but with each year that passes by it gets harder. I miss so much about being in an intimate relationship . I miss simply cuddling and kissing while watching a movie...Teasing each other knowing that it may lead to so much more..Staying in a SM just leaves you empty. You seem concerned about what others may think...Are they living your life ? You have to choose what's best for you. Settling because it's our comfort zone, and allowing fear to keep you stuck is no way to live. You know what you can expect if you stay, but leaving at least gives you the opportunity to seek more ...In the end it's up to you, but make sure your decision is based on what you want and not about what others may think.... Thank you for your comment, Isabellas39. I agree that it's an expensive friendship and one that leaves me looking for the other half of it. You can't JUST be friends, unless that's truly what you both want. I already look in the mirror and at my own reactions to things/people and it scares me. I feel very different from how I used to be, and I don't like it. I think my health has suffered for it too. It's like things can never just be normal because this big issue is always in the room. We can cuddle a little bit in bed at night, but it's always knowing that every weekend, birthday, holiday, anniversary, etc. has a 95% chance of being sexless. It makes me feel, as you said...empty. I do feel concerned about others but no, they aren't living my life. It's hard not to reflect on that a little bit. I think the people that I'm genuinely close to would fully understand - some already even know about the issues. The others would mostly be his family, and that's their problem. I'm not overly close to them anyway, so it's their choice to be mad or not. I am feeling clingy towards my comfort zone (staying, him) and feeling very stuck, hence the thread. I appreciate your words, and the words of everyone else on here, because I know you all truly get it. It's hard to even talk to friends/family who are understanding, because you know they just don't fully get it... and I'm glad for that! |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 1, 2016 22:00:58 GMT -5
Or not coping. I can assure you that anhedonia is not where you want to end up. Please save yourself. I'm not sure what that means fully, but the definition doesn't sound good.  I'm already starting to not care as much about sexual things, which was NEVER me before.. To be sure, probably one of the only things that would interest me at present would be sex. And that is exactly what i cannot have. The absence has drained me to the point that I almost feel nothing. The emptiness is such that only now do I see that all was not well but for a lack of sex. Do yourself a favor and whatever you decide, do not end up broken beyond repair. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:05:14 GMT -5
Lol, will do! How do I know if it's legitimate or he's just going along with it? Will I have to be the initiator forever? I can't even remember what that's like.. That one is easy. If he is just going along with it he will only be able to sustain it for a week or two, 3 at the most. (Maybe 4 if he is superhumanly stubborn...) Then you will find yourself right back where you started, and you will know it is time to pull the pin. I also wanted to respond to, 'I still take blame for it and I still feel like it's something about me, personality-wise, that he's turned off by.' What if that is true? Why would you want to stay with someone who is turned off by your personality? I sincerely hope you are not considering trying to change who you are to get your husband to fuck you !!!!! Good point, unmatched. I feel like part of me doesn't even want it to work out. I'm tired of the games and I really don't want to be the one doing the work. I don't think the man necessarily has to be the initiator all the time, but with all the talks, conversations, and mental effort that I've put forth over the last 5-6 years? It feels like the least he can do is just act on it... Yeah, another good point on the personality thing. I wouldn't want that! I do think he loves me, but I'm not sure he is capable of the kind of love required for a marriage - or at least the type of marriage that I'm looking for. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 1, 2016 22:10:12 GMT -5
I'm not sure what that means fully, but the definition doesn't sound good. I'm already starting to not care as much about sexual things, which was NEVER me before.. To be sure, probably one of the only things that would interest me at present would be sex. And that is exactly what i cannot have. The absence has drained me to the point that I almost feel nothing. The emptiness is such that only now do I see that all was not well but for a lack of sex. Do yourself a favor and whatever you decide, do not end up broken beyond repair. I'm sorry, novembercomingfire <3 I feel you. I often feel the same way and it's like, he can give me everything I ask for but not that, and that one thing makes all the difference. I don't want to end up broken beyond repair. That's really why I'm trying one last time and deciding what is really best for my future. I wish you all the best. |
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I certainly wouldn't say no though.... 
I'm already starting to not care as much about sexual things, which was NEVER me before..