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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 0:00:16 GMT -5
This is reactive, victim thinking. You don't have to get someone to validate your actions. No one is in charge of your life but you. (Sorry so harsh. This was a recent & recurring discovery for me. I keep having to relearn this in the many areas my victimhood manifests itself.) Welcome. Learning is in the listening. Healing is in the sharing. Glad you shared. Regardless of "who's fault it is" you are miserable. And if he is refusing to engage in the marriage (sex and intimacy) then fault is a very nebulous concept... Yeah, good point as well, beachguy. I alternate between having a lot of fun with him/him being sweet, and the miserableness of the SM. I hate the limbo more than anything.. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 10, 2016 0:10:18 GMT -5
This is reactive, victim thinking. You don't have to get someone to validate your actions. No one is in charge of your life but you. (Sorry so harsh. This was a recent & recurring discovery for me. I keep having to relearn this in the many areas my victimhood manifests itself.) Welcome. Learning is in the listening. Healing is in the sharing. Glad you shared. True - thanks, GeekGoddess. I guess on some level I do want to be the victim versus the horrible, mean wife who just left a really nice guy. I get that. I was there too. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 10, 2016 10:22:22 GMT -5
On second thought don't bother with that argument. Just leave. You will never argue or reason or debate your way into a good sex life with an asexual. Is it possible he's NOT asexual and it's just too far gone with only me? Your sex life was crumbling before you even got married. He married you anyway. And it's pretty clear here that it is his libido that fell flat, not yours. So, what if he isn't asexual? If you haven't fixed this after 5-6 years, does his sexual orientation matter? If (hypothetically) it is you, and only you, what difference does it make? You are miserable. If he is sexual, then doesn't he have to be miserable too? If he's not, if he's content in your sexlessness, then what exactly is asexuality? It doesn't even matter if he is miserable in his near celibacy or not. Your future with him will not be any better no matter how he feels about all this. Your future with him will not matter whose "fault" it is. Realistically, if this is "your fault", and he is not asexual, it is likely a very fundamental incompatibility issue. An issue you haven't solved, he hasn't solved, and therapy hasn't solved. And from your opening post, it sounds like even your therapist is encouraging you to throw in the towel. And hopefully you've explored all this with your therapist since it is the biggest problem in your marriage, if not your life. If this is "just your fault", and your sex life was headed downhill before the marriage, then why, why, why did he marry you? Assuming he's sexual. Sexual men do not marry themselves into celibacy. They just don't. And I can't stress enough... you are just the last of a long line of sexually dissatisfied girlfriends. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 10:56:26 GMT -5
It always gets me that people are quick to blame asexual, low libido, lowT, gay ..... anything except that just don't want you sexually or even worse they maybe having sex with other people. Our self worth has taken a beating and we try to protect that with our own excuses that we can live with. It's excuses all round .
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Post by beachguy on Dec 10, 2016 11:10:29 GMT -5
It always gets me that people are quick to blame asexual, low libido, lowT, gay ..... anything except that just don't want you sexually or even worse they maybe having sex with other people. Our self worth has taken a beating and we try to protect that with our own excuses that we can live with. It's excuses all round . In my own defense, after 19 pages of discussion here, Joy has given no indication that he has any interest in sex with anyone or any thing. I would think in most cases, a spouse has some clue about that. If he is not interested in her, and is actively refusing her, but is not venting his sexuality in some other way, doesn't that call into question his sexuality? I have trouble with the idea of a sexual guy, who has no interest in his wife, had no interest from almost the first day of the marriage, and seems uninterested in anyone or anything else. I've said before, though, that my definition of asexuality is a little broader than many others. I don't buy the idea of "totally passive but sexual". I've also stressed repeatedly that it really doesn't matter. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 11:33:19 GMT -5
It always gets me that people are quick to blame asexual, low libido, lowT, gay ..... anything except that just don't want you sexually or even worse they maybe having sex with other people. Our self worth has taken a beating and we try to protect that with our own excuses that we can live with. It's excuses all round . In my own defense, after 19 pages of discussion here, Joy has given no indication that he has any interest in sex with anyone or any thing. I would think in most cases, a spouse has some clue about that. If he is not interested in her, and is actively refusing her, but is not venting his sexuality in some other way, doesn't that call into question his sexuality? I have trouble with the idea of a sexual guy, who has no interest in his wife, had no interest from almost the first day of the marriage, and seems uninterested in anyone or anything else. I've said before, though, that my definition of asexuality is a little broader than many others. I don't buy the idea of "totally passive but sexual". I've also stressed repeatedly that it really doesn't matter. You are so right beachG at the end of the day the reason doesn't matter, all that matter is there is no sex. I came to that realization after coming here because like most I came looking for answers and reasons in the belief that if I understand the problem then I can work on it and fix it. It was a horrible feeling when realized there isn't any answers for me to work on, I felt like I had given up but then I noticed that I no longer got mad or angry, I accepted it, chased my own happiness. I would tell others don't get bogged down with the reason why they wont have sex it just become a chain around your neck. |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 10, 2016 11:59:07 GMT -5
On second thought don't bother with that argument. Just leave. You will never argue or reason or debate your way into a good sex life with an asexual. Is it possible he's NOT asexual and it's just too far gone with only me? Does it matter? |
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Post by callisto on Dec 10, 2016 12:13:00 GMT -5
Regardless of "who's fault it is" you are miserable. And if he is refusing to engage in the marriage (sex and intimacy) then fault is a very nebulous concept... Yeah, good point as well, beachguy. I alternate between having a lot of fun with him/him being sweet, and the miserableness of the SM. I hate the limbo more than anything.. I know I have said this already Joy but I am amazed at how similar you feel to me.. It is such a struggle. I have had 3 recent big chats which I have had to steel all my courage and energy for but then everything has reverted back to as you suggest, 'fun and sweetness' against a peculiar backdrop of the stark reality of SM. I am hoping to achieve acceptance of me having a male 'friend'- at the moment my H won't agree but trying to wear him down before he wears me down..I don't see why he shouldn't agree to this but he said, 'I can't imagine any male agreeing to his wife shagging another man!' |
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 10, 2016 12:21:09 GMT -5
He claims he isn't low libido. I know that's laughable to everyone, but it's hard to argue that when that's how he feels. I've come to realize that a huge problem is that their point of reference -- their definition of "normal" -- is very different than ours. They don't know what they don't know. It simply never occurs to them to do the things we desire. From their point of reference, our demands are unreasonable. From W's perspective, she *does* kiss, hug, touch, and have sex. What she doesn't grasp is that she doesn't *want* any of these things. She tolerates them and does them only when she must, but then to the minimum possible - that's her "normal". Meanwhile, I crave a woman who desires me as much as I desire her. Who actually wants to initiate all of the above. It doesn't seem like such a tall order, but for some it's a foreign concept. Sigh. Yes. |
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 10, 2016 12:34:55 GMT -5
Yeah, good point as well, beachguy. I alternate between having a lot of fun with him/him being sweet, and the miserableness of the SM. I hate the limbo more than anything.. I know I have said this already Joy but I am amazed at how similar you feel to me.. It is such a struggle. I have had 3 recent big chats which I have had to steel all my courage and energy for but then everything has reverted back to as you suggest, 'fun and sweetness' against a peculiar backdrop of the stark reality of SM. I am hoping to achieve acceptance of me having a male 'friend'- at the moment my H won't agree but trying to wear him down before he wears me down..I don't see why he shouldn't agree to this but he said, 'I can't imagine any male agreeing to his wife shagging another man!' I suggested I pay for an escort last night. He didn't like that! |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 12:42:54 GMT -5
True - thanks, GeekGoddess. I guess on some level I do want to be the victim versus the horrible, mean wife who just left a really nice guy. I get that. I was there too. How did you get over that? |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 12:44:40 GMT -5
Is it possible he's NOT asexual and it's just too far gone with only me? Your sex life was crumbling before you even got married. He married you anyway. And it's pretty clear here that it is his libido that fell flat, not yours. So, what if he isn't asexual? If you haven't fixed this after 5-6 years, does his sexual orientation matter? If (hypothetically) it is you, and only you, what difference does it make? You are miserable. If he is sexual, then doesn't he have to be miserable too? If he's not, if he's content in your sexlessness, then what exactly is asexuality? It doesn't even matter if he is miserable in his near celibacy or not. Your future with him will not be any better no matter how he feels about all this. Your future with him will not matter whose "fault" it is. Realistically, if this is "your fault", and he is not asexual, it is likely a very fundamental incompatibility issue. An issue you haven't solved, he hasn't solved, and therapy hasn't solved. And from your opening post, it sounds like even your therapist is encouraging you to throw in the towel. And hopefully you've explored all this with your therapist since it is the biggest problem in your marriage, if not your life. If this is "just your fault", and your sex life was headed downhill before the marriage, then why, why, why did he marry you? Assuming he's sexual. Sexual men do not marry themselves into celibacy. They just don't. And I can't stress enough... you are just the last of a long line of sexually dissatisfied girlfriends. Yeah, good point. He claims it bothers him, but it sure doesn't seem to. Even if he doesn't talk about things outright like I do, I feel like he would at least be mean or distant or something worse. I don't think he's bothered by it... At this point, it seems like there is so much baggage, at least in his mind, to do anything. And I agree that a truly sexual person a) wouldn't have let this happen, and b) would be able to fix it by having sex pretty quickly. I guess he loses interest sexually pretty quickly. I know he still loves me and is great to me, but not in a sexual way... |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 12:46:45 GMT -5
It always gets me that people are quick to blame asexual, low libido, lowT, gay ..... anything except that just don't want you sexually or even worse they maybe having sex with other people. Our self worth has taken a beating and we try to protect that with our own excuses that we can live with. It's excuses all round . I really don't think this is the case here. It's a good point though, thecelt. And at this point, having sex with other people would not be the worst thing. I actually wanted to catch him in an affair for a while because it would at least show that SOMETHING was going on. Ugh.. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 12:47:17 GMT -5
It always gets me that people are quick to blame asexual, low libido, lowT, gay ..... anything except that just don't want you sexually or even worse they maybe having sex with other people. Our self worth has taken a beating and we try to protect that with our own excuses that we can live with. It's excuses all round . In my own defense, after 19 pages of discussion here, Joy has given no indication that he has any interest in sex with anyone or any thing. I would think in most cases, a spouse has some clue about that. If he is not interested in her, and is actively refusing her, but is not venting his sexuality in some other way, doesn't that call into question his sexuality? I have trouble with the idea of a sexual guy, who has no interest in his wife, had no interest from almost the first day of the marriage, and seems uninterested in anyone or anything else. I've said before, though, that my definition of asexuality is a little broader than many others. I don't buy the idea of "totally passive but sexual". I've also stressed repeatedly that it really doesn't matter. Exactly. I truly think he has a different definition of "sexual" than most. |
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Post by joy6016 on Dec 10, 2016 12:49:14 GMT -5
In my own defense, after 19 pages of discussion here, Joy has given no indication that he has any interest in sex with anyone or any thing. I would think in most cases, a spouse has some clue about that. If he is not interested in her, and is actively refusing her, but is not venting his sexuality in some other way, doesn't that call into question his sexuality? I have trouble with the idea of a sexual guy, who has no interest in his wife, had no interest from almost the first day of the marriage, and seems uninterested in anyone or anything else. I've said before, though, that my definition of asexuality is a little broader than many others. I don't buy the idea of "totally passive but sexual". I've also stressed repeatedly that it really doesn't matter. You are so right beachG at the end of the day the reason doesn't matter, all that matter is there is no sex. I came to that realization after coming here because like most I came looking for answers and reasons in the belief that if I understand the problem then I can work on it and fix it. It was a horrible feeling when realized there isn't any answers for me to work on, I felt like I had given up but then I noticed that I no longer got mad or angry, I accepted it, chased my own happiness. I would tell others don't get bogged down with the reason why they wont have sex it just become a chain around your neck. Yeah, I think it is almost worse looking for an answer. Of course, I think we all want answers so that if/when we leave, it's justifiable or something. At least in my opinion. But the why isn't really important. We've spent YEARS trying to figure that out, so yeah. It's not helpful at this point. Sadly, I think we kind of know the WHY (at least the why that we're willing to discuss) and it's still not any better. |
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