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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 21, 2016 18:31:29 GMT -5
*sigh* ...I still don't want to try to save my marriage. Its been 2 years since I first found EP and realized that this will not get better. It got better after I threatened divorce 2 years ago. Now though, it's a once a month forced effort in the bedroom if I push the issue. The reset is long gone. Normally, i dont even WANT to initiate. I'm not even interested in her at all. I dont trust that she truly has a shred of desire for me. I have thought about divorce daily ever since the thought first hit me. Not a day has gone by that i haven't had a long drawn out argument in my head about it. 90% of the time or more, I've decided that I just want to tap out. How do you get yourself to WANT to try. I've tried to think of different angles to use to get myself to truly WANT this marriage. Sometimes I manage to look at the glass as half full but to be honest, I'm just staying for the kids and out of fear. I just want to leave but the guilt is killing me. Any suggestions on things to do to actually help me WANT to try? I'm at a loss.
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 21, 2016 18:46:35 GMT -5
I am absolutely right where you are, and I suspect that I know something of how you feel (although at best I was never worth once a month). I may have missed this, but have you worked up a strategy? At least, for the self care that you need and will need to make your decision ...
If I may ask, how old are your children? As mine grow up, I fear the loss and hurt to them slightly less.
I don't want to try either. Still I do. And i know i am only making things worse for all of us.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 21, 2016 19:09:55 GMT -5
I am absolutely right where you are, and I suspect that I know something of how you feel (although at best I was never worth once a month). I may have missed this, but have you worked up a strategy? At least, for the self care that you need and will need to make your decision ... If I may ask, how old are your children? As mine grow up, I fear the loss and hurt to them slightly less. I don't want to try either. Still I do. And i know i am only making things worse for all of us. Thank you for the support and understanding! I'm sorry to hear that you're in the same boat but I must say that it's comforting to know that I'm not alone. I saw a lawyer a year ago. I've been saving money (slowly) to afford the retainer. Financially, we'd all be ok. Not great, but ok. I've read quite a few divorce books and I'm laying groundwork to make the transition as smooth as possible if I decide I'm done. I'm thinking of asking her to join me for couples counseling in 2017 to put all our cards on the table, hit this aggressively, and get some answers for myself (finally). Our kids are 7 and 2. I know that no age is a good age to put them through this. I'm just afraid were doing more harm than good for them. Both of us are in individual therapy. I just think the environment is not very healthy for them. We both drink to cope. We are not "fighting" but there's tension. It's heartbreaking though because we do have some good family moments and our oldest just recently said how much he loves our family.  |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 21, 2016 19:17:11 GMT -5
I am absolutely right where you are, and I suspect that I know something of how you feel (although at best I was never worth once a month). I may have missed this, but have you worked up a strategy? At least, for the self care that you need and will need to make your decision ... If I may ask, how old are your children? As mine grow up, I fear the loss and hurt to them slightly less. I don't want to try either. Still I do. And i know i am only making things worse for all of us. Thank you for the support and understanding! I'm sorry to hear that you're in the same boat but I must say that it's comforting to know that I'm not alone. I saw a lawyer a year ago. I've been saving money (slowly) to afford the retainer. Financially, we'd all be ok. Not great, but ok. I've read quite a few divorce books and I'm laying groundwork to make the transition as smooth as possible if I decide I'm done. I'm thinking of asking her to join me for couples counseling in 2017 to put all our cards on the table, hit this aggressively, and get some answers for myself (finally). Our kids are 7 and 2. I know that no age is a good age to put them through this. I'm just afraid were doing more harm than good for them. Both of us are in individual therapy. I just think the environment is not very healthy for them. We both drink to cope. We are not "fighting" but there's tension. It's heartbreaking though because we do have some good family moments and our oldest just recently said how much he loves our family. Oh, how familiar is your story. My children are older, but I am where I am because they said things like that. About how much they love our family. And I drank to cope as well. Until I stopped. I thought it would make things better. I miss drinking sometimes. As far as planning, you are far ahead of me. I am likely to take a few pointers, as i gratefully do from many others here. |
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Post by beachguy on Nov 21, 2016 20:32:57 GMT -5
Yes, your kids love their sexless, loveless, affectionless family. Unfortunately that is a very poor "normal", which will serve as a baseline reference for their future relationships. I'm not so sure that's such a great thing...
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Post by greatcoastal on Nov 21, 2016 20:39:55 GMT -5
Yes, your kids love their sexless, loveless, affectionless family. Unfortunately that is a very poor "normal", which will serve as a baseline reference for their future relationships. I'm not so sure that's such a great thing... A tipping point for me was after two years our therapist said, "the two of you are going to continue to point the finger at each other (he later told me she put forth zero effort, and is controlling) and that there is not even a dying ember left in this smoldering fire. That the two of you are setting a terrible example for the kids, of what a healthy loving relationship should look like." |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Nov 21, 2016 20:58:01 GMT -5
Yes, your kids love their sexless, loveless, affectionless family. Unfortunately that is a very poor "normal", which will serve as a baseline reference for their future relationships. I'm not so sure that's such a great thing... It absolutely isn't a great thing. In particular, I will be living with the potential consequences of having shown my son such an example for a good long while. I can only recommend not making the same mistakes that I did ... |
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Post by baza on Nov 22, 2016 17:11:56 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother beeman (in regard to your reasons for staying) - "I'm just staying for the kids and out of fear".
I think you can discard the kids reasoning, as there is as solid an arguement to be made about the deleterious effects of a dud environment on the kids as there is opinions that a dud environment is good for them.
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So that would leave the fear as the prime reason.
Which, I think, is true for just about everyone here.
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Fear that you wouldn't be able to cut it out in the real world.
Fear of the big scene when you drop the bomb.
Fear of friends / family reaction.
Fear of (insert your favourite here)
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Maybe that's your key.
To identify the biggest fear you - beeman - actually have about ending your ILIASM shithole. To identify the REAL reason.
And, confront it.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 23, 2016 20:59:53 GMT -5
Thanks for the support, everyone.
I realize why I don't want to try. It's because I have allowed myself to lose hope lately. I began to believe that things wouldnt get better. Thing is, I don't know if they will get better. I use everyone else's history in this group to define my future. Maybe... just maybe... my story will unfold a bit differently.
If I'm honestly with myself, things are "good enough" right now. I think "good enough" is a realistic goal to set. Afterall, according to my research, those that leave marriages that are "good enough" tend to regret the decision to leave. I think I deserve better than "good enough". I think I'm more than a "good enough" husband and therefore deserve more than "good enough" in return. .. but maybe "good enough" is simply a realistic goal? Maybe I've been too idealistic? Maybe "good enough" is what is best for me? Maybe it's what is best for my kids too? Maybe it's the most I can expect from my wife? Maybe I owe it to her to accept "good enough"? Maybe its simply the most anyone can realistically expect in marriage?
I used to tell myself that its "not so bad". Then i met someone that helped me believe that "not so bad" wasn't good enough for me. I want to believe that's true, but maybe "not so bad" is a blessing in the grand scheme of life? The more I share with friends, the more I see that it's simply not all sunshine and roses. We all have issues, we're all a bit broken. We're all trying to fill a void of some sort. Maybe "not so bad" is the best one can realistically hope for?
I don't really know but I do know that time will work it's magic. The good thing is that I have drawn my line in the sand and I'm preparing myself to enforce that boundary if it's crossed. That's really the only thing I can do. I have done a lot of soul searching over the last week. I've decided to try. I kind of suddenly want to try for some reason. I'm not sure where this desire has come from. It's long overdue though. It's time for me to truly try. I don't want to go out without knowing that I truly put in some effort. Maybe my fate will be the same as so many others in here. Maybe it won"t. The bottom line is that I don't want to go out without living up to my promise to try to make it through "better or worse". I may fail in that promise, but I won't allow myself to fail in not trying.
Now, if I may, I am about to go try to and see if she's up for a bit of loving. Wish me luck.
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Post by baza on Nov 23, 2016 21:14:57 GMT -5
Staying is a perfectly valid choice.
Just as valid as leaving or cheating.
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Now, the difficult bit.
Having made your choice, you own it and it is incumbent on you to accept it, embrace it, and live it.
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And, if you find you cannot accept it, embrace it, and live it, then it falls squarely on you to revisit your options and choose one that you CAN accept, embrace, and live.
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But for today, on what you know today, and how you feel today, you have made your choice, today.
And that is a great thing.
Waaaaay better than adopting a victim posture.
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Post by Chatter Fox on Nov 23, 2016 21:18:02 GMT -5
Staying is a perfectly valid choice. Just as valid as leaving or cheating. - Now, the difficult bit. Having made your choice, you own it and it is incumbent on you to accept it, embrace it, and live it. - And, if you find you cannot accept it, embrace it, and live it, then it falls squarely on you to revisit your options and choose one that you CAN accept, embrace, and live. - But for today, on what you know today, and how you feel today, you have made your choice, today. And that is a great thing. Waaaaay better than adopting a victim posture. Thanks, Baza. I really appreciate your input as always.  It's more helpful than you may realize. |
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Post by shamwow on Dec 20, 2016 22:15:22 GMT -5
Yes, your kids love their sexless, loveless, affectionless family. Unfortunately that is a very poor "normal", which will serve as a baseline reference for their future relationships. I'm not so sure that's such a great thing... It's possible for it to be sexless, but not loveless or affectionless. In my case, all the love is directed towards the kids so they don't notice the chasm of ice between their parents. Or maybe that's just the bullshit I have convinced myself....  Yeah...most likely bullshit. I got two smart kids. |
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Post by beachguy on Dec 20, 2016 22:38:56 GMT -5
Yes, your kids love their sexless, loveless, affectionless family. Unfortunately that is a very poor "normal", which will serve as a baseline reference for their future relationships. I'm not so sure that's such a great thing... It's possible for it to be sexless, but not loveless or affectionless. In my case, all the love is directed towards the kids so they don't notice the chasm of ice between their parents. Or maybe that's just the bullshit I have convinced myself.... Yeah...most likely bullshit. I got two smart kids. I'm sure your kids are well trained to shower love on their offspring. But that chasm of ice is their Normal. They may, for example, be very uncomfortable showing affection to their future spouses in front of their future kids since they've never experienced that. I know this is possible from personal experience, to some degree or another. And at some point it occurred to me that that is one possible reason I accepted an SM that goes back to the day after the wedding. |
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 21, 2016 8:06:42 GMT -5
Chatter Fox -- Whether you are unhappy with a job or a relationship, the choices are as clear and simple as this. However, in the case of marriage and divorce, my advice is to make sure you have honestly gone to great lengths to change it before making the decision to leave, and that includes a great deal of introspection and objectivity regarding your part in the current situation. 
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 12:33:08 GMT -5
There goes Beeman, walking away. We see his back and he slowly strides away from his marriage. Where is he heading? We see a mist, and unknown place in the distance. He is approaching at a quicker pace. He is brighter, with a smile and a spring in his step.
I may not get there with you....
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It's more helpful than you may realize.
