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Post by JMX on Sept 25, 2016 20:50:38 GMT -5
@boulderbob - this is the perfect example of taking someone's comments personally when they weren't meant as such. I have to admit, in the past on EP, I had to read petrushka a little differently, because (as he said) he is not American and has a different perspective. It's not a "wrong" perspective. On EP and, a little here too, we had many people from all different cultures. We had devout Muslims (from Middle Eastern countries) trying to leave their husbands, one man was scared to tell his family he was gay and was planning a permanent vacation to go and be who he was born to be, leaving his family behind - I never saw a follow-up story and I hope he made it out. We had a man from India in an arranged marriage that went sour. Sure, it's easy for me to say to an abused Muslim woman (and I still on occasion do just that with an American Muslim woman here) just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and leave! Or to the Indian man - your country is so archaic! Leave her and your family. But! Their experience is NOT mine and I don't live in their country and I don't understand their culture or laws. I didn't respect this in the past and made a couple of silly comments on some of those posts, but I did learn. In the United States, we constantly pepper our social media posts with "trigger warning" and our universities have "safe spaces". It's just part of our culture. Petrushka's country of origin is not one where you couldn't visit and speak the language, or move about comfortably, but you would probably have to drop the sensitivity training of your culture to figure out the nuances of his. He also has a dry sense of humor, is whip-smart, is very kind and sensitive while also being opinionated and plain-spoken. He actually is not personally attacking you. On a lighter note - I had only an inkling what the Australians on EP were saying the first 10x I read "root" - I believe I may have finally Googled it to be sure
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Post by baza on Sept 25, 2016 20:51:48 GMT -5
I recall an apocryphal story about Lyndon B Johnson (bear in mind my jurisdiction is NOT the U.S. so I may have this wrong). - Anyway, the story goes that he was running for office (long before he was VP to Kennedy) and the polls were not going well. - So he called his campaign manager in and said - "Start a rumour that X (his opponent) is in to bestiality, especially pigs". - "But it ain't true" an aid noted. - "Then let's hear him deny it" LBJ is reputed to have responded. - That's not a bad 'entrapment' question. - - - JMX. It generally gets a big laugh in my jurisdiction, when say the American Footy is on the tv, and some fan says "I'm rooting for the Buffalo Bills".
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Post by JMX on Sept 25, 2016 21:05:20 GMT -5
baza - have had a similar conversation with a guy about football and my superstitions. If I have a quickly on week one, say - halftime - out of superstition alone, I have to have the quickie every halftime for the rest of the season. I would be "rooting" for my team š. It's funny, but I am dead serious. Roll Tide.
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Post by itsjustus on Sept 25, 2016 21:41:29 GMT -5
I think that is part of the marriage vows. I remember when I was engaged and I was flying with my future wife to Boston. We had a layover in Raleigh and picked up a patient from Duke Hospital. During the flight, he had a diabetic reaction. The flight attendants asked his wife what was going on, and she was totally clueless. Fortunately, there was a nurse on board, who said he needed medical care ASAP. We had to stop in Philadelphia to drop him off then wait on the runway three hours before we got back into the air. I swore that such a thing would never happen to me. Guess what?- it did! And when the situation was reversed this past month, I had to argue with my wife that she needed to go to the hospital. Had I respected her wishes and let her stay home, she would either be in a coma or dead. To me, watching out and nursing each other comes with the vows. It comes with being under the same roof. Absolutely. If you're married you take care of each other, even if your relationship is dead. But there is a difference between helping and rescuing. I don't really know how to describe it. But one thing is for sure, rescuing never works. The only person you can save is yourself. "I don't really know how to describe it"
I think I do.... let me try.... When I met my ex, she was living with her alcoholic abusive mother, taking care of her two 11 to 12 year old step brothers, and a 2 year old daughter. They lived in abject poverty, she worked as a waitress and walked 3 miles back and forth to work....spring, summer, fall and winter. She had to make the household work on her waitress pay and the welfare checks her mom got....when she could get them from her mom before she hit the liquor store. She was 20 at the time I met her. She had been living this way since she was five.
I was raised in a middle class, Baptist family. Always had my Mom and Dad to watch over me and married my first wife at 19, had a child...(3 months after we married..) and divorced by 22. But I had a decent paying job and was lonely, disappointed in life, and sure all my family thought I was a failure....
It wasn't until I hit my 30's that it dawned on me....laying in bed, staring at the ceiling next to her, wondering why I didn't feel like I was loved. When I met my ex, it wasn't necessarily love that had brought us together.... I had swooped in, reached down from my great white steed...and with my silver armor shining in the sun...carried her and her daughter (shortly thereafter her step brothers. Then eventually her sobered up mother) away from their life of abject poverty. YAY ME!!! In one fell swoop, I was the savior! I "rescued" a damsel in distress, her daughter, and combined with my 4 year old daughter, had an instant family, that my friends and family could be proud of! I was a married man again!! I was a freaken hero!!!
You can read between the lines. I didn't really do it for love, I did it for me, for my ego. I was The Shining White Knight.
Did she marry me for love? I think so, though I certainly upgraded her life considerably. I do know that when we finally divorced in our mid-fifty's, she was devastated, pleading with me to think of how this was finally "our" time to enjoy life, take vacations, travel, enjoy having the kids grown and gone, enjoy the grandchildren....Reading between the lines, again, you may see that she was thinking of herself. Not once did she mention being with "me". Of loving me. Of wanting to be with "me". She didn't know how. She knew all my buttons....but she didn't know me.
The Damsel didn't know the real me, only The White Knight, who rescued her. The White Knight didn't know her, only the Damsel he'd rescued. There was no real love, only the love of "doing the right thing". And I suffered for it. I went numb, for many years, waiting for.....what?
As @phinheasgage said, rescuing never works. I left to save myself.
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Post by csl on Sept 25, 2016 22:35:04 GMT -5
Same as I don't get the connotations of "your mother wears army boots". Just w.t.f. is that supposed to say or signify? "The saying, "Your mother wears army boots!" was brought home by the Doughboys of WWI. Women known as "camp followers" traded sexual favors for a pair of army boots [and anything else they could get] which they could, in turn, sell or barter to other needy souls; thus Camp Followers made a business out of this. So in the 1920ās if someone said, āYour mother wears army boots!ā these were fighting words." By the '40s, this was something of a cartoonish put-down, something Bugs Bunny might say.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 22:41:21 GMT -5
Absolutely. If you're married you take care of each other, even if your relationship is dead. But there is a difference between helping and rescuing. I don't really know how to describe it. But one thing is for sure, rescuing never works. The only person you can save is yourself. "I don't really know how to describe it"
I think IĀ do.... let me try.... When I met my ex, she was living with her alcoholic abusive mother, taking care of her two 11 to 12 year old step brothers, and a 2 year old daughter. They lived in abject poverty, she worked as a waitress and walked 3 miles back and forth to work....spring, summer, fall and winter. She had to make the household work on her waitress pay and the welfare checks her mom got....when she could get them from her mom before she hit the liquor store. She was 20 at the time I met her. She had been living this way since she was five.
I was raised in a middle class, Baptist family. Always had my Mom and Dad to watch over me and married my first wife at 19, had a child...(3 months after we married..) and divorced by 22. But I had a decent paying job and was lonely, disappointed in life, and sure all my family thought I was a failure....
It wasn't until I hit myĀ 30's that it dawned on me....laying in bed, staring at the ceiling next to her, wondering why I didn't feel like I was loved. When I met my ex, it wasn't necessarily love that had brought us together.... I had swooped in, reached down from my great white steed...and with my silver armor shining in the sun...carried her and her daughter (shortly thereafter her step brothers. Then eventually her sobered up mother) away from their life of abject poverty. YAY ME!!! In one fell swoop, I was the savior! I "rescued" a damsel in distress, her daughter, and combined with my 4 year old daughter, had an instant family, that my friends and family could be proud of! I was a married man again!! I was a freakenĀ hero!!!
You can read between the lines. I didn't really do it for love, I did it for me, for my ego. I was The Shining White Knight.
Did sheĀ marry meĀ for love? I think so, though I certainly upgraded her life considerably. I do know that when we finally divorced in our mid-fifty's, she was devastated, pleading with me to think of how this was finally "our" time to enjoy life, take vacations, travel, enjoy having the kids grown and gone, enjoy the grandchildren....Reading between the lines, again, you may see that she was thinking of herself. Not once did she mention being with "me". Of loving me. Of wanting to be with "me". She didn't know how. She knew all my buttons....but she didn't know me.
The Damsel didn't know the real me, only The White Knight, who rescued her. The White Knight didn't know her, only the Damsel he'd rescued. There was no real love, only the love of "doing the right thing". And I suffered for it. I went numb, for many years, waiting for.....what?Ā
As @phinheasgage said, rescuing never works. I left to save myself.
Exactly what I was trying to say! Spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 22:45:55 GMT -5
@boulderbob - this is the perfect example of taking someone's comments personally when they weren't meant as such. I have to admit, in the past on EP, I had to read petrushka a little differently, because (as he said) he is not American and has a different perspective. It's not a "wrong" perspective. On EP and, a little here too, we had many people from all different cultures. We had devout Muslims (from Middle Eastern countries) trying to leave their husbands, one man was scared to tell his family he was gay and was planning a permanent vacation to go and be who he was born to be, leaving his family behind - I never saw a follow-up story and I hope he made it out. We had a man from India in an arranged marriage that went sour. Sure, it's easy for me to say to an abused Muslim woman (and I still on occasion do just that with an American Muslim woman here) just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and leave! Or to the Indian man - your country is so archaic! Leave her and your family. But! Their experience is NOT mine and I don't live in their country and I don't understand their culture or laws. I didn't respect this in the past and made a couple of silly comments on some of those posts, but I did learn. In the United States, we constantly pepper our social media posts with "trigger warning" and our universities have "safe spaces". It's just part of our culture. Petrushka's country of origin is not one where you couldn't visit and speak the language, or move about comfortably, but you would probably have to drop the sensitivity training of your culture to figure out the nuances of his. He also has a dry sense of humor, is whip-smart, is very kind and sensitive while also being opinionated and plain-spoken. He actually is not personally attacking you. On a lighter note - I had only an inkling what the Australians on EP were saying the first 10x I read "root" - I believe I may have finally Googled it to be sure Had root beer at dinner tonight. And a giggle.
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Post by petrushka on Sept 25, 2016 23:37:43 GMT -5
So did it work? The root beer, I mean ...?!?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 1:01:39 GMT -5
So did it work? The root beer, I mean ...?!? Alas the only root today was in a styrofoam cup full of ice.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 12:36:05 GMT -5
I am back from my travels to Hogwarts in L.A. with my 12 year old twins and 29 year old daughter and new son-in-law. All agree that Universal Studios did a fine job and though prices for everything were outrageous. If I was visiting I would spend 4 or 5 days in Disneyland (especially with kids) to 1 day at Universal Studios, though if you are a real movie buff the studios are pretty neat. How can I be in a bad mood after that? I am not. But I wish to say a few things, not about family entertainment. First, this is the first forum I have ever joined and everything is new to me. And when the 3 women left I did not really get it, I thought naively that some kind of action should be taken, maybe like a poll(?) for instance with three voting choices (1) Please stay, we need you, (2) Do what you need to do, you have our support, or (3) Donāt really care. I thought something like this is the minimum should be done to show support. Very naĆÆve of me. Nothing was done. So I stormed in and thought I was continuing Zās argument about āsplaining. It was the wrong tact, I was dealt with, and I apologized. I also do not think I have ever read on here of anyone committing this egregious act (āsplaininā), and I do not believe it is a problem we have to deal with, certainly not now. I did not get the forums reaction until baza (paraphrasing) explained that people come in, participate as much as they like, get out of it as much as they like, and then leave when they feel it is their time. Sometimes they can even come back if they wish, the door is not closed. You cannot force people to stay. The world now makes more sense to me, thank you baza@boulderbob - there are two separate issues. 1.) MR and HT leaving over the thread lockdown and 2.) Z feeling disrespected by some of the men here. We were not privy to the PM or what transpired, when she got called a "feminazi". Z has deleted her account before, also over a PM in what she described as a stalker. The membership does not know how either transpired. Are her feelings valid? Of curse they are. She had them. Is her choice to leave valid? Absolutely. I would bet dollars to donuts that if you took a vote of the females here, the majority of us would say we have not experienced what Z has experienced (at least to a degree) and therefore don't understand the beef. The calling out of hurt feelings for mansplainin' (in an attempt to curtail it) would only serve to water-down everyone's responses or story posts in the future. A thread - like this - educating on mansplainin'? Sure. A general murky rule of thumb to keep it from happening? Ridiculous. We all have people in our lives that we know or don't know very well, all with different views and applications of those views. We can choose to engage them or not. Same here. We can scroll down and not engage if we wish, or engage if we wish to do that. There is also a block button. This place would lose valuable insights if we all collectively decided to walk on egg shells and tiptoed around everyone's feelings. Especially considering we all have emotional roller coasters of our own, and are all sensitive in different ways at any given time. No one is going to edit you or delete your comments. That only ever happened on the "vile Richard" thread. As if 'walking on eggshells' wasn't what most of us here have had ENTIRELY too much of in our lives. Hear, hear!
Incidentally, my experience of Z is the same as your perception. Oh, happy enough to be flirty and playful with some men here, but the moment a dude seriously opined something she was not on board with, the shutters came down and there was offense taken. I personally smelled more than a whiff of misandry. But frankly, I have a broad back and there are a lot of things out there in the world that bother me a hell of a lot more. Like censorship <snark, snark>. Anyway, I've already made my views of that clear in another post. I exercised my [block button] months ago. I go with JMX here, and really don't think I agree with @wingman 's conclusions that we men need to hitch up our pants, pipe down and get the egshell-walking sneakers out. The odd freak may blow in here (I never saw the ignominious Richard post(s)) but practically everybody here is generally very empathetic and respectful in my perception. I know damn well what 'mansplaining' is and don't need to have it explained to me <sic!>, and it's an annoying habit at best (and yeesh, I can put up with someone like that for a few hours, but would not want to live with someone who does that continuously) but - that there are folk like that does not justifiably give license to tar every bloke who has a different opinion with the 'mansplaining' brush. In fact I see the latter as worse ... the former is some idiot talking out of his arse, the latter is a veiled, passive aggressive ad personam attack when used in this manner. I can discredit you at any moment by painting, what you are saying, as 'mansplaining', discussion closed. Have a good day. Cut you off at the knees. You ought to feel like shit now and aren't you ashamed of yourself? It's no different than saying e.g.: "Have you stopped beating your _____ yet?"
To start my first thought. When Z deleted her account, there was no reason to trash her out the door. In an open forum accusing anyone of āmisandryā, can and will be regarded as offensive to people not sharing your opinion. She had already gone, so low, mean-spirited comments are hardly warranted or necessary, and do not put the forum in good stead. My second through fifth thoughts, though valid, are not being posted because I want this to be over, and not to turn into a pissing match. Sixth, I do not beat my wife, children, dog, mother, etc. The only fill in the blank I could think of, that you may have meant was ācockā. If you would have put it another way, āHave you stopped ________ your wife yet?ā I also would have no idea what you were talking about? So I advise you not use blanks that may have multiple interpretations in the future, even if you feel only one answer is obvious. Just spit it out. Since you said it was a misunderstanding I will not tell you what my original reply was, (just that multiple blanks were involved throughout my discourse) for the moderators (and a hearty welcome to the two new moderators) would certainly feel that they must get involved and I donāt wish to continue this any longer. I said I was going to drop it, but I am not going to forget it. P.S. I do not wish anyone to check the ālikeā button for this post. In arguments it can only lead to hurt feelings or the appearance of taking sides. I wish instead there was a ādonāt likeā button when and if boys start acting like boys, and I would advise all of you to check that box, unless you wish to see more animosity, which I will not partake of unless in defense?
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Post by petrushka on Oct 1, 2016 15:59:11 GMT -5
I note your gracious acceptance of my apology for the easily misunderstood post and recognition of my editing said offending post.
Also, I get the subtle allusions to insults left at home.
You are of course entitled to your opinions.
Proverbs 18:2
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 20:31:19 GMT -5
I note your gracious acceptance of my apology for the easily misunderstood post and recognition of my editing said offending post. Also, I get the subtle allusions to insults left at home. You are of course entitled to your opinions. Proverbs 18:2 petrushka Proverbs 18:2 Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. I understand and I find no pleasure in being referred to as a fool. Unless I am again supposed to accept that a cultural difference has led me to mistake your intent?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 20:53:05 GMT -5
I recall an apocryphal story about Lyndon B Johnson (bear in mind my jurisdiction is NOT the U.S. so I may have this wrong). - Anyway, the story goes that he was running for office (long before he was VP to Kennedy) and the polls were not going well. - So he called his campaign manager in and said - "Start a rumour that X (his opponent) is in to bestiality, especially pigs". - "But it ain't true" an aid noted. - "Then let's hear him deny it" LBJ is reputed to have responded. - That's not a bad 'entrapment' question. - - - If you're explaining you're losing.
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Post by JMX on Oct 1, 2016 21:27:24 GMT -5
I note your gracious acceptance of my apology for the easily misunderstood post and recognition of my editing said offending post. Also, I get the subtle allusions to insults left at home. You are of course entitled to your opinions. Proverbs 18:2 petrushka Proverbs 18:2 Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. I understand and I find no pleasure in being referred to as a fool. Unless I am again supposed to accept that a cultural difference has led me to mistake your intent? (Eye roll) Nope. #1 - Z not only dropped a flame-worthy post (which I thank her for) she also quoted herself twice when she did not get immediate response. She later deleted the two quotes of her own post as responses rolled in. I noted this but did not comment publicly. She did it to create debate, argued her point for a bit and dropped the fuck out when it got too hot and when she realized the comments were (largely) not supportive of her position. Here you are supposed to understand that your gracing us all with #s 2-5 "leaving it at home" was a direct slap because you still feel differently (okay, cool), and maybe you are scared of letting it out because you would not be happy with the result (fine). #6 was a bit convoluted but okay... Your P.S. Is more than funny. You have a hard time getting likes on your posts on this thread anyway. Not many agree with you here. No big deal. Whatever. We all stand on positions that people like and don't like. Who cares? Fwiw - I didn't know what Proverbs 18:2 said until you brought it to light - because I am sincerely lazy. And, lol petrushka. But! Maybe we can still give you the last word. Simply type "word" as a response.
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