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Post by wewbwb on Apr 14, 2016 10:17:36 GMT -5
, I refuse her in other ways. Discussing budget, child discipline, vacations, churches, family, health issues, etc... The valley just grows wider and wider. Along with the realization that discussion with a manipulative controller is a double bind. I was doing the same thing the last year or two of my marriage. I stopped watching tv with him in the evening, didn't go to movies with him, refused to say "I love you" sometimes. He would say it and I said Bye, just a few examples.[/quote] That really hurts. I've been on the receiving side of that. To be refused physically and then emotionally hurts. |
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 14, 2016 12:05:24 GMT -5
That really hurts. I've been on the receiving side of that. To be refused physically and then emotionally hurts.
[/quote]
I get that but I had tolerated 2 decades of being
physically refused, 1 decade of emotional refusal
and 5 years of refusal to try to work on and
improve the marriage. I was faithful for over twenty
years but it came to a head and I couldn't pretend
I was happy when I wasn't or I would just accept
being the only giver in the relationship.
He needed a taste of his own medicine.
In the end he admitted he was wrong but it was
too late.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 14, 2016 13:47:11 GMT -5
That really hurts. I've been on the receiving side of that. To be refused physically and then emotionally hurts. I get that but I had tolerated 2 decades of being physically refused, 1 decade of emotional refusal and 5 years of refusal to try to work on and improve the marriage. I was faithful for over twenty years but it came to a head and I couldn't pretend I was happy when I wasn't or I would just accept being the only giver in the relationship. He needed a taste of his own medicine. In the end he admitted he was wrong but it was too late.[/quote] GreatCoastal said: after years of the same thing,( decades) I am reaching the same conclusion. Our therapist met with both of us last night. It had been a while. He asked us to grade ourselves on how we think we are doing personally, and how we are doing as a married couple. We both gave the marriage an F. My wife gave herself an A! She sees no fault, no problems in her behavior what so ever! I pointed out her strong emotions about having to replace some of my sons clothes, ( spending money, while she is running off to disney again tomorrow) over fixing our sexless, intimate-less, emotion-less marriage. She could care less. All she could do is mumble some broad range statements about me not doing enough. After I gave a clear example of her not wanting to submit to any of my decisions. The ironic part of it all, is that in the end, the results are the same. i Don't know if I can hold out for two more years, let alone three! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 16:42:18 GMT -5
[I can picture the reaction of many refusers... "Wait. What? Why are *you* going up to speak? But we *have* sex!" Denial Exactly! Denial! at the end of my marriage after I asked for a divorce my ex tried to reset me one last time. It was the one time in our marriage I got to refuse him. Then he asked me why. I told him I am no longer comfortable to have sex with him. I pointed out that he was a selfish man. I told him he never gave me oral despite him getting it every single time. His response:" yes I did!" Total denial! I called bullshit! GreatCoastal said: since I don't get to refuse my wife sexually, I refuse her in other ways. Discussing budget, child discipline, vacations, churches, family, health issues, etc... The valley just grows wider and wider. Along with the realization that discussion with a manipulative controller is a double bind.[/quote] Yes, I did something similar. I got angry and tried to take away things he liked. It didn't help. It didn't make him wake up and realize what he was doing. And it didn't even really make me feel any better. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 16, 2016 11:56:19 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 12:08:11 GMT -5
That was a genius idea! I remember that. I had a lot of fun with it. |
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Post by darktippedrose on Apr 19, 2016 17:28:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd even bring my husband to a support group. Hes really good with his words. he knows what to say and how to say it to make you feel utterly stupid. When he uses it on other people, they are eating out of his hand in no time.
one of the few times I said anything, I was 25 or 26 I think, he teased me saying I was too old to want sex. That I used to not be able to go 4 days without it. How come you don't want it anymore.
I said because he wouldn't stop rejecting me.
He turned around so fast and said that is a lie.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 19:55:04 GMT -5
I would say her not agreeing to an open marriage all those years ago has doomed us both to being sexless for the rest of our lives.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 30, 2016 15:07:34 GMT -5
I would say her not agreeing to an open marriage all those years ago has doomed us both to being sexless for the rest of our lives. Is that something you can accept? I mean her making a decision about your sexuality? I got to the point where celibacy was no longer an option for my life. I didn't ask for permission, I kept it a secret and found an amazing lover to bring some happiness to my life, It's your life and your body and you should be able to do what you want with it. Sex is a biological need I don't care what anyone says. Just my 2cents. |
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Post by snowman12345 on Apr 30, 2016 15:30:08 GMT -5
I would say her not agreeing to an open marriage all those years ago has doomed us both to being sexless for the rest of our lives. Is that something you can accept? I mean her making a decision about your sexuality? I got to the point where celibacy was no longer an option for my life. I didn't ask for permission, I kept it a secret and found an amazing lover to bring some happiness to my life, It's your life and your body and you should be able to do what you want with it. Sex is a biological need I don't care what anyone says. Just my 2cents. That's it exactly! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 16:18:58 GMT -5
I would say her not agreeing to an open marriage all those years ago has doomed us both to being sexless for the rest of our lives. Is that something you can accept? I mean her making a decision about your sexuality? I got to the point where celibacy was no longer an option for my life. I didn't ask for permission, I kept it a secret and found an amazing lover to bring some happiness to my life, It's your life and your body and you should be able to do what you want with it. Sex is a biological need I don't care what anyone says. Just my 2cents. I agree but it isn't that easy. I started looking for sex outside the marriage 15 years ago and I looked everywhere. The online hookup sites, the bars, women I worked with, female friends and I had no luck. It is much easier for women to have affairs then men. Out there in the world and especially online, a married man looking for sex is considered lower than pond scum. Believe me if I'd found someone I wouldn't have been so sexually lonely for so many years. I try not to lose hope (although I often do) and I'm still looking despite getting very discouraged over the years. The trouble is, as hard as it was to find someone to agree to sex back in the early 2000's it is much more difficult now because I am older. |
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 30, 2016 16:31:23 GMT -5
Is that something you can accept? I mean her making a decision about your sexuality? I got to the point where celibacy was no longer an option for my life. I didn't ask for permission, I kept it a secret and found an amazing lover to bring some happiness to my life, It's your life and your body and you should be able to do what you want with it. Sex is a biological need I don't care what anyone says. Just my 2cents. I agree but it isn't that easy. I started looking for sex outside the marriage 15 years ago and I looked everywhere. The online hookup sites, the bars, women I worked with, female friends and I had no luck. It is much easier for women to have affairs then men. Out there in the world and especially online, a married man looking for sex is considered lower than pond scum. Believe me if I'd found someone I wouldn't have been so sexually lonely for so many years. I try not to lose hope (although I often do) and I'm still looking despite getting very discouraged over the years. The trouble is, as hard as it was to find someone to agree to sex back in the early 2000's it is much more difficult now because I am older. I agree and don't give up ever! I understand and I know it's not easy so hang in there. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2016 16:42:24 GMT -5
I often wish I could talk about this with women who are friends of mine. I fantasize that out of friendship they would offer the odd handjob now and then to help me deal with the sexual longing but it's just a fantasy. I wouldn't dare tell any of them about my situation. I did tell one woman friend once, years ago and she didn't believe me. She thought I was just telling her I had been sexless for many years so she would offer to give me some "pity sex".....can't win for trying.
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Post by unmatched on May 1, 2016 4:07:37 GMT -5
GC, I hate to get all "Christian" on you, but I'm not sure you want to shame your wife for that or anything else within the context of a small group. The intent of these groups is safe and secure spiritual intimacy. I'm not surprised your wife has dropped out of the group. I'm of the opinion now -- based on what I believe is a bunch of wise counsel -- that once the SM stuff has been hashed out to completion it should be dropped completely in the interest of allowing other areas of personal growth and relationship to occur. And I KNOW these things can be hashed out to completion. Once civil communication has ended -- and eventually it always ends -- your done. They'll let you know if there's something else to discuss. One of the other rules that follows along these same lines is never mentioning sexlessness in the bedroom. If sexlessness is ever going to be resolved, you don't want the former refuser to have an aversion to the bedroom based on prior strife that occurred there. Similarly, you don't want her having an aversion to church, your friends, HER friends, etc. Based on this, I think the best places for SM conversations -- if you insist on having them -- is the basement, garage, or kitchen. Definitely not on vacations, in bedrooms, or anywhere she doesn't have to be or where you want her to be. I don't know if you have or like dogs. But you can learn a LOT about proper behavior modification from seriously training dogs. You have to be very careful not to make them averse to doing the right thing while preventing them from doing the wrong thing. And done properly, they LOVE the training and the fun of being a good dog!!! So...if I understand you correctly, the best approach is never have the SM conversation with your refuser (except in unpleasant or distracting places). Rather, just use dog training techniques to get what you want. OMG. Is that what you got from his post? I think what he was trying to say is conversations about SM very often go badly and will have negative associations for a refuser (and probably you too). So it is best not to have them in bedrooms or on vacation or other places you might want them to associate with happiness and possibly even love and sex. It makes sense to me. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 1, 2016 13:35:37 GMT -5
Here a few more, I would want my wife to hear what it is like to be invited to a dance together. To endure more years of Valentines day in front of the children. To have to make a big deal of your refusers birthday gifts, cake etc. Having to look all " happy together "when your refusers family visits. Going to swim parties together, when your refuser is to ashamed to wear a bathing suit, while other couples are swimming together.
Coming up is the magical " 25th wedding anniversary"! How I dread people wishing us 25 more years of marital bliss!
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