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Post by LITW on Apr 13, 2016 13:04:44 GMT -5
I have a mean streak sometimes, and I admit I've fantasized about a whole WORLD where refusing is considered every bit as bad/wrong/sinful etc. as outsourcing is. Imagine - you could tell people your spouse is holding out on you, and they would be on your side about it. They'd be indignant on your behalf. Pastors would preach sermons against the terrible sin of refusing. If a politician got caught refusing, it would be all over the media. Refusing would be instant grounds for divorce. I can dream.... Well, there are a few (but growing) number of pastors who are preaching that withholding sex is a sin. Of course they are harping on outsourcing more, but at least there is a start. The problem I have is with spouses that give it up once every two or three months and think that's ok because you are at least getting SOME sex. If you allowed your spouse a single piece of bread every two days could you claim you weren't starving them? I don't think so. I am dreaming along with you .... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 14:25:27 GMT -5
I had the balls/ stupidity to bring up the SM issue in our small group bible study at church!( over 6 months ago) We were talking about marriage and roles in marriage. I turned to my wife, ( who was already tuned out from the whole thing) and asked her, " mind if I mention our SM?" She said " go ahead!" You should have seen the other wives go into silence, and stare at the floor the whole time, as the men grinned! One, just one women openly admitted that she needs to work on that more, and that too many other things become a priority. She really struggled to say it too! Her husband ( a wise man) decided not to make a sound! My wife never came back to class with me! The other ladies gave me the ceremonial advice, " take her out on a date, buy her things, talk to her, etc..." I explained, and shot down all there logic by telling them of all the years of constant rejection to all those things. They shortly threw their hands up and said, " you're in a tough spot!" Yes you are. You are married to an adulterous woman. Adultery is introducing something into the marriage that does not belong. Celibacy does not belong in marriage. Refusing sex in marriage = adultery. I am very sorry. I recently left my refuser. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 14:27:11 GMT -5
I have a mean streak sometimes, and I admit I've fantasized about a whole WORLD where refusing is considered every bit as bad/wrong/sinful etc. as outsourcing is. Imagine - you could tell people your spouse is holding out on you, and they would be on your side about it. They'd be indignant on your behalf. Pastors would preach sermons against the terrible sin of refusing. If a politician got caught refusing, it would be all over the media. Refusing would be instant grounds for divorce. I can dream.... Well, there are a few (but growing) number of pastors who are preaching that withholding sex is a sin. Of course they are harping on outsourcing more, but at least there is a start. The problem I have is with spouses that give it up once every two or three months and think that's ok because you are at least getting SOME sex. If you allowed your spouse a single piece of bread every two days could you claim you weren't starving them? I don't think so. I am dreaming along with you .... I would like to know if this is in a specific denomination or a specific congregation. If you would share, I would really like to find out where this is being taught. It is terrible that churches don't teach this often. |
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Post by LITW on Apr 13, 2016 14:43:00 GMT -5
Well, there are a few (but growing) number of pastors who are preaching that withholding sex is a sin. Of course they are harping on outsourcing more, but at least there is a start. The problem I have is with spouses that give it up once every two or three months and think that's ok because you are at least getting SOME sex. If you allowed your spouse a single piece of bread every two days could you claim you weren't starving them? I don't think so. I am dreaming along with you .... I would like to know if this is in a specific denomination or a specific congregation. If you would share, I would really like to find out where this is being taught. It is terrible that churches don't teach this often. It has to do with specific congregations and specific marriage ministries. There is no official denominational stand on it that I know of. Of course, my formative years were spent in a Baptist church where merely discussing sexual topics with someone other than your spouse was considered adultery. I am currently attending a Bible church that is not affiliated with any denomination, and teaches solely on what the Bible says rather on what someone in an ivory tower said about the Bible. Our pastor gave a series on "the gift of sex" a few months ago, and he did say from the pulpit that if you are withholding intimacy, you need to stop. (after he said that if you are looking at porn you need to stop.) Many Christian marriage bloggers are saying that also. Here is one such post... intimacyinmarriage.com/2013/08/28/the-sexual-sin-no-one-will-talk-about/ |
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Post by saxappeal on Apr 13, 2016 14:59:47 GMT -5
The message that I would want my spouse to hear would be different at the different stages of our marriage. Almost like the ghosts of Christmas past coming to visit. First decade - we would water board his ass and find out Why? Why he doesn't like sex? Back then I didn't know it doesn't matter. Second decade-if she's asking you to go to Marriage counseling don't you think there's a problem? Don't be stubborn or you will lose her! Post divorce - yeah you should have fucked her Enjoy cooking your own dinner Love it L |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:27:54 GMT -5
I had the balls/ stupidity to bring up the SM issue in our small group bible study at church!( over 6 months ago) We were talking about marriage and roles in marriage. I turned to my wife, ( who was already tuned out from the whole thing) and asked her, " mind if I mention our SM?" She said " go ahead!" You should have seen the other wives go into silence, and stare at the floor the whole time, as the men grinned! One, just one women openly admitted that she needs to work on that more, and that too many other things become a priority. She really struggled to say it too! Her husband ( a wise man) decided not to make a sound! My wife never came back to class with me! The other ladies gave me the ceremonial advice, " take her out on a date, buy her things, talk to her, etc..." I explained, and shot down all there logic by telling them of all the years of constant rejection to all those things. They shortly threw their hands up and said, " you're in a tough spot!" That was brave of you. Thank you for trying, anyway....trying to bring this problem out into the light. Too bad you got the "bacon scented candles" response. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:30:03 GMT -5
The message that I would want my spouse to hear would be different at the different stages of our marriage. Almost like the ghosts of Christmas past coming to visit. First decade - we would water board his ass and find out Why? Why he doesn't like sex? Back then I didn't know it doesn't matter. Second decade-if she's asking you to go to Marriage counseling don't you think there's a problem? Don't be stubborn or you will lose her! Post divorce - yeah you should have fucked her Enjoy cooking your own dinner Love it L just curious. What is your story Saxappeal? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:30:18 GMT -5
Churches really need to get into the realities of 21st century life. We are no longer living in the Middle Ages, or in Victorian times. People have sex for recreational purposes. Deal with it!
Stuff like this is why I believe in God, but not in religion.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:58:11 GMT -5
I had the balls/ stupidity to bring up the SM issue in our small group bible study at church!( over 6 months ago) We were talking about marriage and roles in marriage. I turned to my wife, ( who was already tuned out from the whole thing) and asked her, " mind if I mention our SM?" She said " go ahead!" You should have seen the other wives go into silence, and stare at the floor the whole time, as the men grinned! One, just one women openly admitted that she needs to work on that more, and that too many other things become a priority. She really struggled to say it too! Her husband ( a wise man) decided not to make a sound! My wife never came back to class with me! The other ladies gave me the ceremonial advice, " take her out on a date, buy her things, talk to her, etc..." I explained, and shot down all there logic by telling them of all the years of constant rejection to all those things. They shortly threw their hands up and said, " you're in a tough spot!" GC, I hate to get all "Christian" on you, but I'm not sure you want to shame your wife for that or anything else within the context of a small group. The intent of these groups is safe and secure spiritual intimacy. I'm not surprised your wife has dropped out of the group. I'm of the opinion now -- based on what I believe is a bunch of wise counsel -- that once the SM stuff has been hashed out to completion it should be dropped completely in the interest of allowing other areas of personal growth and relationship to occur. And I KNOW these things can be hashed out to completion. Once civil communication has ended -- and eventually it always ends -- your done. They'll let you know if there's something else to discuss. One of the other rules that follows along these same lines is never mentioning sexlessness in the bedroom. If sexlessness is ever going to be resolved, you don't want the former refuser to have an aversion to the bedroom based on prior strife that occurred there. Similarly, you don't want her having an aversion to church, your friends, HER friends, etc. Based on this, I think the best places for SM conversations -- if you insist on having them -- is the basement, garage, or kitchen. Definitely not on vacations, in bedrooms, or anywhere she doesn't have to be or where you want her to be. I don't know if you have or like dogs. But you can learn a LOT about proper behavior modification from seriously training dogs. You have to be very careful not to make them averse to doing the right thing while preventing them from doing the wrong thing. And done properly, they LOVE the training and the fun of being a good dog!!! |
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 13, 2016 16:05:09 GMT -5
I had the balls/ stupidity to bring up the SM issue in our small group bible study at church!( over 6 months ago) We were talking about marriage and roles in marriage. I turned to my wife, ( who was already tuned out from the whole thing) and asked her, " mind if I mention our SM?" She said " go ahead!" You should have seen the other wives go into silence, and stare at the floor the whole time, as the men grinned! One, just one women openly admitted that she needs to work on that more, and that too many other things become a priority. She really struggled to say it too! Her husband ( a wise man) decided not to make a sound! My wife never came back to class with me! The other ladies gave me the ceremonial advice, " take her out on a date, buy her things, talk to her, etc..." I explained, and shot down all there logic by telling them of all the years of constant rejection to all those things. They shortly threw their hands up and said, " you're in a tough spot!" That was brave of you. Thank you for trying, anyway....trying to bring this problem out into the light. Too bad you got the "bacon scented candles" response. F U N N Y ! I just came back from the candle store with another Easy Melt Cup : Vanilla Cupcake, YUMMY! are you going to check your messages? |
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 13, 2016 19:58:51 GMT -5
I had the balls/ stupidity to bring up the SM issue in our small group bible study at church!( over 6 months ago) We were talking about marriage and roles in marriage. I turned to my wife, ( who was already tuned out from the whole thing) and asked her, " mind if I mention our SM?" She said " go ahead!" You should have seen the other wives go into silence, and stare at the floor the whole time, as the men grinned! One, just one women openly admitted that she needs to work on that more, and that too many other things become a priority. She really struggled to say it too! Her husband ( a wise man) decided not to make a sound! My wife never came back to class with me! The other ladies gave me the ceremonial advice, " take her out on a date, buy her things, talk to her, etc..." I explained, and shot down all there logic by telling them of all the years of constant rejection to all those things. They shortly threw their hands up and said, " you're in a tough spot!" GC, I hate to get all "Christian" on you, but I'm not sure you want to shame your wife for that or anything else within the context of a small group. The intent of these groups is safe and secure spiritual intimacy. I'm not surprised your wife has dropped out of the group. I'm of the opinion now -- based on what I believe is a bunch of wise counsel -- that once the SM stuff has been hashed out to completion it should be dropped completely in the interest of allowing other areas of personal growth and relationship to occur. And I KNOW these things can be hashed out to completion. Once civil communication has ended -- and eventually it always ends -- your done. They'll let you know if there's something else to discuss. One of the other rules that follows along these same lines is never mentioning sexlessness in the bedroom. If sexlessness is ever going to be resolved, you don't want the former refuser to have an aversion to the bedroom based on prior strife that occurred there. Similarly, you don't want her having an aversion to church, your friends, HER friends, etc. Based on this, I think the best places for SM conversations -- if you insist on having them -- is the basement, garage, or kitchen. Definitely not on vacations, in bedrooms, or anywhere she doesn't have to be or where you want her to be. I don't know if you have or like dogs. But you can learn a LOT about proper behavior modification from seriously training dogs. You have to be very careful not to make them averse to doing the right thing while preventing them from doing the wrong thing. And done properly, they LOVE the training and the fun of being a good dog!!! We have different opinions about what a small group at church should be. Especially a group that you go into to discuss marital problems. A group where you are asked to be open and honest, and keep it within the walls of the room. Then there is the amount of scripture that talks about, sex and marriage. My wife's issues go deeper than that. This is more about a manipulative controller. The fact that this issue should not be discussed in church says a lot about " Christianity". You would get better council, compassion, and understanding at a bar! SM conversations with a controlling rejector, is a one sided conversation. i appreciate your concern, response, and value your opinion. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 23:44:51 GMT -5
I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be discussed at church. I'm just suggesting that calling your wife out on it in a small group with other couples isn't going to solve it, and probably turned her off to something that might otherwise benefit the two of you. Maybe a men's group would be a more appropriate venue for discussing it.
Unless of course, this was the Sexless Marriage small group. In which case, I recant my statement.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 14, 2016 7:49:20 GMT -5
[I can picture the reaction of many refusers... "Wait. What? Why are *you* going up to speak? But we *have* sex!" Denial Exactly! Denial! at the end of my marriage after I asked for a divorce my ex tried to reset me one last time. It was the one time in our marriage I got to refuse him. Then he asked me why. I told him I am no longer comfortable to have sex with him. I pointed out that he was a selfish man. I told him he never gave me oral despite him getting it every single time. His response:" yes I did!" Total denial! I called bullshit![/quote] GreatCoastal said: since I don't get to refuse my wife sexually, I refuse her in other ways. Discussing budget, child discipline, vacations, churches, family, health issues, etc... The valley just grows wider and wider. Along with the realization that discussion with a manipulative controller is a double bind. |
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Post by JMX on Apr 14, 2016 8:30:23 GMT -5
One of the other rules that follows along these same lines is never mentioning sexlessness in the bedroom. If sexlessness is ever going to be resolved, you don't want the former refuser to have an aversion to the bedroom based on prior strife that occurred there. Similarly, you don't want her having an aversion to church, your friends, HER friends, etc.
Based on this, I think the best places for SM conversations -- if you insist on having them -- is the basement, garage, or kitchen. Definitely not on vacations, in bedrooms, or anywhere she doesn't have to be or where you want her to be.
This is an excellent point Creel. I did this and didn't realize it. As soon as I got my reset, some of my pillow talk was "I really wish we could do THAT more often."
The worst offense by me in this respect was when we had our drunken hour long episode back in December and I "shared" with him afterwards that it was so good and if it had been like that more frequently, I would not be so tempted to cheat. I went on to tell him I had actually set up a rendezvous and cancelled last minute. In my mind, I was letting him know he was dangerously close to losing me but I loved him and I was ultimately loyal. I am sure in his mind, I opened up a can of (subconscious) worms from his childhood with a mother that lined them up before divorcing (more than a couple of times). He got more cold and distant after that.
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 14, 2016 9:45:58 GMT -5
, I refuse her in other ways. Discussing budget, child discipline, vacations, churches, family, health issues, etc... The valley just grows wider and wider. Along with the realization that discussion with a manipulative controller is a double bind.[/quote]
I was doing the same thing the last year or two of
my marriage. I stopped watching tv with him
in the evening, didn't go to movies with him,
refused to say "I love you" sometimes. He would
say it and I said Bye, just a few examples.
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