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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2016 0:01:47 GMT -5
This is a sidebar question, raised in the thread "Reasons for Divorce".
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If you have left your ILIASM shithole, and feel like responding, I'd appreciate it.
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Was the unsatisfactory state of the sexual aspect of your marriage the primary reason you left ?
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I've already voted - "No" - in my situation.
There were assorted reasons I left, financial irresponsibility being the main one, general disengagement being another, general unhappiness for another. "Sex" was in the mix somewhere, but it wasn't #1 for me. Probably at about #5 I reckon, and was more like a symptom of other things rather than a stand alone issue.
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If you care to participate in the poll, maybe you might add a comment as well to explain your vote (?).
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 20, 2016 6:33:51 GMT -5
I voted No as sex per say wasn't the primary reason, although it was pretty close to the top. The real deal breaker was the almost total lack of intimacy or connection. She didn't want to be hugged, kissed, cuddled or even touched much. And there was the general tone of no respect or desire to engage with me when it could potentially lead to be closer emotionally. We made good roomies, but at the end that was all.
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Post by misssunnybunny on Aug 20, 2016 9:20:02 GMT -5
I voted no; not having sex was a huge reason I left, but not the primary one. He made me feel small and stupid too often, saying things to me that undermined my sense of self, my self confidence. We lived like roommates for a decade, my role seemed to change from wife to housekeeper/cook/social planner. Not a marriage in any sense, and he did not understand why I was so unhappy when he was perfectly content to live like that forever.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2016 9:38:24 GMT -5
I voted Yes however I feel like I could have voted No too.
I voted yes because I feel like if we would have had a healthy sex life, heck who am I kidding if he would have had sex with me once a month I would not have divorced despite the fact that there were A LOT of other issues with our relationship.
In the end I divorced because I just didn't like him anymore. I no longer wanted sex with him either but I guess my point is if we would have had sex I would have put up with all his shit because I did love him for a long time.
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Post by nyartgal on Aug 20, 2016 14:11:32 GMT -5
I voted Yes however I feel like I could have voted No too. I voted yes because I feel like if we would have had a healthy sex life, heck who am I kidding if he would have had sex with me once a month I would not have divorced despite the fact that there were A LOT of other issues with our relationship. In the end I divorced because I just didn't like him anymore. I no longer wanted sex with him either but I guess my point is if we would have had sex I would have put up with all his shit because I did love him for a long time. It's so weird, in retrospect I'm grateful for the sexlessness because otherwise I would have stayed much longer and missed out on the life I have now. |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2016 14:48:57 GMT -5
I voted Yes however I feel like I could have voted No too. I voted yes because I feel like if we would have had a healthy sex life, heck who am I kidding if he would have had sex with me once a month I would not have divorced despite the fact that there were A LOT of other issues with our relationship. In the end I divorced because I just didn't like him anymore. I no longer wanted sex with him either but I guess my point is if we would have had sex I would have put up with all his shit because I did love him for a long time. It's so weird, in retrospect I'm grateful for the sexlessness because otherwise I would have stayed much longer and missed out on the life I have now. I actually said that to my husband at the end. When we were talking about (really arguing) the lack of sex, this is after he was served, he said to me "why would I want to have sex with you with your attitude". It was a childish statement and I saw it as just emotional immaturity. So I answered him with, "and now I THANK YOU that you didn't because I may have stayed if you did". In retrospect I agree with you 100% my SM wasn't the main problem and it and EP helped me to realize what I needed to do for me. |
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Post by samedeepwater on Aug 20, 2016 17:57:19 GMT -5
You remind me of a professor I had in college who made all his exams open book, open note, open cheat, but he had a way of phrasing his questions so that only a small percentage of the class even approached a high score.
Lack of sex was the most visceral reason, yes. But the lack of sex was the most physical manifestation of the lack of intimacy and trust that existed between us. I was looking at some of the reasons you and others posted here. We didn't fight. We each prefered silence to vulnerability. Pretending to honesty. We ate our meals on the elephant's back. We had no money problems at all. I made it, and she spent it. A nice clean arrangement. I remembered to put the seat down, and she stepped over my dirty socks in the middle of the hallway. I've had much worse roommates in my lifetime.
The half-life of Carbon-14 is somewhere around 6000 years. That's an incredibly long time. The half-life of my marriage was about 12. Even knowing this, I stuck around for an extra couple years. That's an incredibly long time. I was tired of the half-life. And since you are mostly directing this at those who have left, and I can say without reservation, there is indeed a full life waiting out there for those of you still splitting atoms.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 20, 2016 19:22:33 GMT -5
I voted no but nearly could have voted yes. The sexlessness is what got me searching. It was the personally painful "prod" that got me to DO something. What I did was find EP and the ILIASM group there. Baza was one of the first who cut through my "all is great bar the sex" attitude with a phrasing like "the unilateral enforcement of celibacy" was an indicator of deeper disrespect than I was noticing. Then I really noticed. I got my head out of "it's because: cancer" cloud and starting reading up on relationships - healthy ones and dysfunctional ones too. And EVERY single thing I read made me question more and more why I had already stayed so long.
I got out my old journals too (again a seed of an idea from Baz). As I read through I realized sex drive mismatch had been an issue for all the years. It had, in the past,been an issued that was managed with much effort (me gritting teeth to accept what I could settle for and he did try to initiate consistently when I had made a stink over it). Time and again in the journals, there would be entries that we had started grating each others nerves, then an entry that described me addressing it and his agreeing to comply with my requests of more intimacy (I actually would mean both emotional & physical but maybe wasn't clear on that). Then there would be some entries of "it's gotten better" and then.....that same series of entries would be there again a few years on. And really - all that getting better meant was I was getting some. I don't really believe he ever tried as hard on the emotional intimacy as he did on the physical intimacy.
When I realized that it had always been a repeating pattern - and knew then that there was no way to make up for the loss of his physical capabilities - that is when I figured out there was no way to recover/restore/create any emotional intimacy either. We had always just substituted the physical and then managed our household as roommates otherwise (that is - roommates who have sex but don't have a spiritual/innermost type of bond - if that makes sense).
When I realized that the incidents lined up like the lights on an airport landing strip in a perfectly straight line - I was disappointed in myself for "never noticing" before. Eventually in therapy, I think I learned that I sort of suspected or did notice but that I had a self-limiting belief of either "this is as good as it gets" or "I don't probably deserve better" or some other shame-based operating principle. That was easy to believe, for me, for that time.
Now I know that the sexlessness was absolutely just a symptom of the deeper dysfunction. That's why I voted no. Sexlessness started my awareness and my searching - but it was all the other "proof" I found that this was in fact an unhealthy relationship that made me pull the trigger on divorce without pursuing couple counseling. I just couldn't squander my spirit on that anymore. My heart wouldn't stand for it once I had the other facts.
He won't change - or rather - I cannot change him. I don't want to settle. I never thought I had (previously). When I realized that is the fact - that if I stayed, I was settling and selling my own potential for love short - - well, I just couldn't stay and spend any more time trying to fix a broken record, unspill the milk, squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube. I told him: I can't un-know what I know now. And I know I need to go try this on my own. I just have to.
And - I really am glad as hell that I did. It's not like I have a love life yet. But I have a chance at one. And I had NO chance before, with him. That ship had done sailed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 9:52:52 GMT -5
I feel the same way as bballgirl. I think if we had had a normal sex life, it would have kept a bond between us. It was his constant rejection that broke down our marriage. I acknowledge there were other issues, but I think I would have overlooked them if I felt loved and desired. I have a friend who exemplifies this. She and her husband have a number of serious issues, but their sex life is incredible and she has said to our group of friends a number of times that if their sex life wasn't so great, she'd leave him. They may fight and struggle, but their ability to connect intimately allows them to keep working on their issues. It's not a big surprise to me that they are actually managing to make progress. Sex is an affirmation of their connection and love for each other. It makes the struggle worth it, reminds them of why they chose each other in the first place. Maybe ultimately, my marriage would have failed anyway, but I honestly think his issues with intimacy (and my belief that I could change/heal that for him) was the major reason. |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 21, 2016 9:54:59 GMT -5
I feel the same way as bballgirl. I think if we had had a normal sex life, it would have kept a bond between us. It was his constant rejection that broke down our marriage. I acknowledge there were other issues, but I think I would have overlooked them if I felt loved and desired. I have a friend who exemplifies this. She and her husband have a number of serious issues, but their sex life is incredible and she has said to our group of friends a number of times that if their sex life wasn't so great, she'd leave him. They may fight and struggle, but their ability to connect intimately allows them to keep working on their issues. It's not a big surprise to me that they are actually managing to make progress. Sex is an affirmation of their connection and love for each other. It makes the struggle worth it, reminds them of why they chose each other in the first place. Maybe ultimately, my marriage would have failed anyway, but I honestly think his issues with intimacy (and my belief that I could change/heal that for him) was the major reason. All of your words could be mine. Hugs. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 9:58:31 GMT -5
I voted Yes however I feel like I could have voted No too. I voted yes because I feel like if we would have had a healthy sex life, heck who am I kidding if he would have had sex with me once a month I would not have divorced despite the fact that there were A LOT of other issues with our relationship. In the end I divorced because I just didn't like him anymore. I no longer wanted sex with him either but I guess my point is if we would have had sex I would have put up with all his shit because I did love him for a long time. This seems to be a common theme. Even monthly rooting would have diverted me from leaving. Sometimes I wonder if she really understands that this was a big deal for me. Given that it was impossible for us to communicate, it wouldn't surprise me. But the upside is I never got reset, which I probably would have fallen for. |
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 21, 2016 10:36:10 GMT -5
I voted Yes however I feel like I could have voted No too. I voted yes because I feel like if we would have had a healthy sex life, heck who am I kidding if he would have had sex with me once a month I would not have divorced despite the fact that there were A LOT of other issues with our relationship. In the end I divorced because I just didn't like him anymore. I no longer wanted sex with him either but I guess my point is if we would have had sex I would have put up with all his shit because I did love him for a long time. This seems to be a common theme. Even monthly rooting would have diverted me from leaving. Sometimes I wonder if she really understands that this was a big deal for me. Given that it was impossible for us to communicate, it wouldn't surprise me. But the upside is I never got reset, which I probably would have fallen for. Lucky that you never got the reset, it's just a manipulation and crappy sex at that. I think there is a theme here with the "if they would have had sex once a month I would have stayed" philosophy. It speaks to compromise in marriage and I think we all tend to be a very accommodating, people pleasing, bunch of people here. We are willing to compromise, they however do not compromise. Once a year is not a compromise, even 6 times a year is not a compromise. Once a month could be a bare bones compromise but they aren't even willing let alone WANTING to do that because they are selfish and only care about themselves. I can only speak for myself but I enabled his selfishness, control and manipulation. I know better now. |
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Post by baza on Aug 23, 2016 0:09:55 GMT -5
I must admit that the results of this poll (as of 23 Aug 16) have really surprised me.
In all my reading in EP/ILIASM - ILIASM from Feb 09 to now, I can't recall a story where the member left with sex being the primary reason.
Yet, the poll quite unambiguously says that 38% did so.
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Well, one learns something new every day.
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Maybe what I can take out of it is that my memory is not as shit hot as I think.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2016 18:02:35 GMT -5
I must admit that the results of this poll (as of 23 Aug 16) have really surprised me. In all my reading in EP/ILIASM - ILIASM from Feb 09 to now, I can't recall a story where the member left with sex being the primary reason. Yet, the poll quite unambiguously says that 38% did so. - Well, one learns something new every day. - Maybe what I can take out of it is that my memory is not as shit hot as I think. That or 38% of people in an ILIASM shithole think everything is great except the sex. Which sounds about right. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2016 16:49:06 GMT -5
I didn't think everything was great bar the sex, but right or wrong, I would have been willing to put up with a lot of his crap if the intimacy had been there. You can overlook a lot if you feel loved and valued.
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