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Post by pinkjeanie70 on Aug 14, 2016 18:40:50 GMT -5
I have generalized anxiety and I take a low dose of medication to address my anxiety. Tonight I'm feeling especially anxious, and I should be glad my medication doesn't put me into zombie land where I can't feel or function, but I'm not glad about that because it's still hard not to worry about significant things.
My BF is a former pastor and deacon. Before I moved to his state, we talked about abstinence once I moved, and while we dated and until/if we got married. In a previous post, I mentioned that I was intellectually on board with abstinence. Neither one of us realized how hard it was for me to deal with abstinence, and he felt like he was imposing another sexless relationship on me. As a result, the abstinence didn't last long. We talked about reinstating the abstinence upon an engagement to focus on our spiritual and religious lives and have an amazing wedding night. About three weeks ago, I lit into him via text because I thought I experienced a bait and switch move re: my perceived intimacy for that day and I wasn't very nice. I got the cold shoulder and I didn't see him for a week; I likely deserved it although a week is a long time. I thought he was going to break up with me. He told me he considered it, which is also a little anxiety-inducing. Since then, I haven't received sexy text messages, although I realized I needed to initiate them because he didn't want to get chewed out again. It took me a while to realize this because almost everything is new...retraining...unlearning habits. When my BF wasn't talking to me, I fell into the biggest funk I could remember. I couldn't get out of bed and I held my dog and cried for days. That's not like me.
My BF and I have been exploring new churches in our area. We attended a church under his former Bishop and the priests recognized and were so happy to see him! We didn't sit together because I wanted to give him privacy and head off any gossip or speculation. He told me he wanted to attend to help make his decision re: converting or not. The priests were very welcoming and one of them took him out to lunch. It appears he has an offer to be the deacon at that church. It was traumatizing for him when he was asked to step down when his divorce was filed. He identified so much with the church and loved his role. He's also very good at it. I haven't seen him again today and he asked to meet up with me tomorrow for lunch. He didn't want to talk much about his luncheon this afternoon because he was processing a paradigm shift. I love him dearly and I'm very proud of him for wanting to have integrity. But, I asked my BF one question because I don't know how being a single deacon affects his social status: Can we date, given the understanding of his role and being clearly abstinent? He said he didn't want to talk about such a deep issue via text, and I couldn't disagree.
I don't know what is going to happen tomorrow during our lunch. I don't know if he decided to pursue the deacon position at the church. These past few weeks I've been giving him space because it seems like he needs it. I wanted a bit of reassurance, didn't receive much of any...so I suppose I could count that as my answer. I don't know what I don't know. I've gone through transitions with my move and work...I've kept up on my work-out routines...but it's an effort. My BF told me I was smothering him and I was aghast. I told him that I was really trying to be aware of his schedule, and didn't want to impose on him, but if he suggested getting together I was all for seeing him. There were times I felt overwhelmed with the attention, but I didn't say anything. I'm such a fool. Either I say too terribly much or not enough.
As I'm writing this, I realize I'm feeling quite depressed. I don't know...maybe the big move, two job changes, figuring out how to date and getting my new routines underway are catching up with me. Maybe I need to take this time to reflect on what I need to do to take care of myself...rather than worry about anything else. I can't control what he thinks or does, anyway.
My friend says things seem to work out for the best. I hope he's right.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:56:12 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 18:56:12 GMT -5
Your bf is too conflicted to be in a relationship. Sorry. I might as well cut to the chase.
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Aug 14, 2016 18:57:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 18:57:20 GMT -5
And how does abstaining make your wedding night better?
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Anxiety
Aug 14, 2016 19:18:46 GMT -5
Post by baza on Aug 14, 2016 19:18:46 GMT -5
If the desired "appearance" for a deacon is to be either obviously married, or obviously single, but not 'divorced and dating' then he has some BIG choices ahead of him.
If putting up a facade to the flock is more important to him than your relationship, then fair enough. That is a perfectly legitimate choice for him to make.
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Of course that then swings the focus over on to you and your choices.
Namely, are you prepared to go along with the charade and - if necessary - take a very subservient position in the relationship, or not ?
That's a perfectly legitimate choice for you to make too.
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What's more important to you here Sister pj ?
That you support his career aspirations and - if necessary - adopt a position of invisibility to facilitate that ?
or
That you maintain your autonomy, perhaps at the cost of the relationship ?
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It really looks like some HUGE choices are looming, for him, and for you.
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Anxiety
Aug 14, 2016 19:27:38 GMT -5
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Post by unmatched on Aug 14, 2016 19:27:38 GMT -5
It seems that a lot of what you have written about this guy is all about him and struggling to be whatever religious person he wants to be, and his abstinence, and regaining his position in the church. What do you want? You haven't been out all that long. Do you definitely want to marry this guy and spend the rest of your life with him? Do you trust that he will put your needs as high as his own?
I am concerned that if he is capable of giving you the cold shoulder now and telling you you are smothering him, what is that going to look like when you are married and he starts to become more interested in his church than he is in you. I may be being unfair, and you clearly need to talk to him not just by text, but you need and deserve a man who will put you first. And I suspect in this guy's life you will always come third after his ideas of God and whatever church society he chooses to give himself to.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 20:39:31 GMT -5
It seems that a lot of what you have written about this guy is all about him and struggling to be whatever religious person he wants to be, and his abstinence, and regaining his position in the church. What do you want? You haven't been out all that long. Do you definitely want to marry this guy and spend the rest of your life with him? Do you trust that he will put your needs as high as his own? I am concerned that if he is capable of giving you the cold shoulder now and telling you you are smothering him, what is that going to look like when you are married and he starts to become more interested in his church than he is in you. I may be being unfair, and you clearly need to talk to him not just by text, but you need and deserve a man who will put you first. And I suspect in this guy's life you will always come third after his ideas of God and whatever church society he chooses to give himself to. I saw this for the first thirty years of my life until I stopped going to church. Great men of God serving Him faithfully while their wives lived lonely isolated lives. Serving the Lord is almost as good an excuse as erectile dysfunction for neglecting your woman. |
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Aug 14, 2016 21:13:47 GMT -5
Post by pinkjeanie70 on Aug 14, 2016 21:13:47 GMT -5
These are good points.
I respect how he wants to live authentically and not be a hypocrite to people he's ministering to...we had amazing sex after we spent the weekend with his kids and didn't have the opportunity for any naked time. Just quick kisses and I saw him in his tight shorts and in his swimsuit. He has a hot body and the buildup to sex was incredible...and during we were worried my neighbors would be calling 9-1-1.
I want him to resume his deacon role if that's what he wants. He was a deacon when I met him. He told me he didn't anticipate being offered the opportunity again. He was so hurt when he was asked to step down...I don't even know if he decided to accept the offer. Anyway, the times we didn't interact were when he was in church. If he accepts the offer, and isn't going to throw me aside, I'll ask him about balance, but with his otherwise busy schedule I felt like he knew how to prioritize time with me. This is a PT position, he's otherwise a University Instructor, grad student, and volunteer firefighter. We've talked about me maintaining my autonomy...of course. I've earned advanced degrees and certifications and he's gearing up to earn his PhD, which means another potential move. I support his career advancement and my current job is mobile. But, there is plenty of food for thought with your insights.
We've known each other for almost two years and interacted long-distance for over a year. We're getting to know each other's personalities and my post has more to do with my frustrations with post-SM issues, change and anxiety - not his religious training or career choices. Yes, he does have opinions and asserts his opinions, but it's mostly refreshing because my Ex had none.
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Post by baza on Aug 14, 2016 22:17:41 GMT -5
Another angle on this, is his view of his situation.
And he may well be acting quite authentically by his own standards.
That is to say, that if returning to deaconing means he has to hide (or dump) his girlfriend, then that's something he is quite prepared to do.
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This bit (in the opening part of your thread) - "We attended a church under his former Bishop and the priests recognized and were so happy to see him! We didn't sit together because I wanted to give him privacy and head off any gossip or speculation. He told me he wanted to attend to help make his decision re: converting or not. The priests were very welcoming and one of them took him out to lunch"
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It sure looks like you were not given a role - other than that of spectator - in this event, and it doesn't read like he has been very forthcoming about exactly what was discussed with the church dudes at the church, or after at lunch (to which you were not a participant either)
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It actually looks quite possible that in his discussions with the priests at the church, and lunch, that you didn't get a mention at all, and that as far as the priests know, he is a great candidate for deaconism, being unencumbered by any relationship complications.
Another possiblity is that the church authorities advised him to 'either marry - or offload - the girlfriend' if he wanted the job.
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Now I am not saying this IS the case, but it is a theory that fits the known facts pretty seamlessly.
The scenario being that you are "just a girlfriend" as opposed to a "potential life partner" who would be included and consulted in these discussions, who would sit with him at church, and would have accompanied him to lunch, and who's input in to the discussions would have been sought and welcomed.
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Anyway, there's a view from another perspective to consider. And under this view, it might not be such a great idea to over invest in this relationship at this moment in time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 23:54:24 GMT -5
His religion and career choice aren't the problem. The problem is his ambivalence about giving you a place in them.
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 15, 2016 7:15:39 GMT -5
Having undergone the procedure for exorcism of a S/M demon I would be somewhat reserved in evaluating this individual as a candidate for a life partner, hot body or not. This reads as if a meaningful relationship that includes intimacy with you is pretty far down the list of priorities for him. I think it is time for a clear defining of exactly where you rank in the order of things so you are correct to have the discussion about balance, sooner rather than later.
I do not fault his seeming dedication to his faith, but unless or until you hear him say otherwise I believe you should be prepared to take a seat at the back of the bus if you choose to pursue this relationship. His quilt over premarital sex may well carry over into guilt about indulging in this sinful act as a part of marriage.
When you speak about maintaining your autonomy that concerns me. In my own failed marriage I think that is one of the factors that eroded the relationship. If he pursues an advanced degree that could further postpone or string out the timeframe of you 2 being in a dating state as opposed to working at being life partners. And if he is sincere about abstinence before marriage, either as a condition of his role as a deacon or his true feelings regarding his faith, then you could be in for a long spell of sexless partnering again.
Yes I would say a discussion about the role of sex, faith , long term goals and where you fit in the mix definitely needs to be on the calendar.
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Post by JMX on Aug 15, 2016 8:35:30 GMT -5
I don't know pinkjeanie70, my take-away here is that you are having to do a boat-load of mental gymnastics to make this post-SM relationship work. It reads as if you have put yourself in a new, different prison, friend. I hope everything gets better and soon! |
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Post by pinkjeanie70 on Aug 16, 2016 9:40:45 GMT -5
Good morning, all. We met yesterday to talk about my BF's, "Paradigm Shift." All of you are right, in one way or the other.
Yes PG, my BF is too conflicted to be in a relationship and he is dealing with a lot of guilt in many areas. Not just me. He made decisions to be a pastor b/c of habits he developed (for redemption) and he wanted his dad to be proud of him. He found a very Christian woman whom he quickly married. She ended up cheating on him, and they divorced. She spewed their secrets to his Bishop and he was put into detention until recently. He thought he lost his orders, and we enjoyed a period of time of dating and getting to know one another.
Baz, he suggested an option for me is to not attend his church because he needs to be above reproach. If asked if he is dating, he will say yes. He will be honest with them that we had premarital sex. He said he is telling me this up front so I could, "make my own decision" about going to his new church. So, thus the secrecy would ensue if I attended another church, which I will do anyway. I grew up Christian, and I'm not perfect. I felt like I would be branded with the letter, "A." While he said he's not breaking up with me, he's made his decision that I don't fit in his world.
I talked to my BFF last night. She pretty much knows our history, and she told me the guilt he is feeling is his on him. It's no one's business how we met and developed our relationship. He is looking for redemption. When I drove away from his new church on Sunday I knew I was leaving him in the folds of certain people who will change the direction of his life. It was like I offered a fostered life for him, where he can get some rest and reassurance...until he doesn't need me any longer. I kind of wonder what his path/plan will look like if the Bishop decides he can't be restore as a divorced (and fornicated) deacon.
JMX, you are right. It's been an emotional roller coaster.
I wish I would have been strong enough to say, "No," when he asked me to move to his state so we could, "date."
What I do know is I will have to give myself some much needed TLC. I'm grateful I found a lovely place to live and I have a better paying job than I did in my home state, and when I first moved here. I have Delilah. I have my health, and no one can take that away from me.
And, oh, I also feel like he's going off on the deep end with his penitence. I'm trying to be gracious and understanding. My heart just really hurts right now.
XOXO
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2016 14:19:00 GMT -5
Good morning, all. We met yesterday to talk about my BF's, "Paradigm Shift." All of you are right, in one way or the other. Yes PG, my BF is too conflicted to be in a relationship and he is dealing with a lot of guilt in many areas. Not just me. He made decisions to be a pastor b/c of habits he developed (for redemption) and he wanted his dad to be proud of him. He found a very Christian woman whom he quickly married. She ended up cheating on him, and they divorced. She spewed their secrets to his Bishop and he was put into detention until recently. He thought he lost his orders, and we enjoyed a period of time of dating and getting to know one another. Baz, he suggested an option for me is to not attend his church because he needs to be above reproach. If asked if he is dating, he will say yes. He will be honest with them that we had premarital sex. He said he is telling me this up front so I could, "make my own decision" about going to his new church. So, thus the secrecy would ensue if I attended another church, which I will do anyway. I grew up Christian, and I'm not perfect. I felt like I would be branded with the letter, "A." While he said he's not breaking up with me, he's made his decision that I don't fit in his world. I talked to my BFF last night. She pretty much knows our history, and she told me the guilt he is feeling is his on him. It's no one's business how we met and developed our relationship. He is looking for redemption. When I drove away from his new church on Sunday I knew I was leaving him in the folds of certain people who will change the direction of his life. It was like I offered a fostered life for him, where he can get some rest and reassurance...until he doesn't need me any longer. I kind of wonder what his path/plan will look like if the Bishop decides he can't be restore as a divorced (and fornicated) deacon. JMX, you are right. It's been an emotional roller coaster. I wish I would have been strong enough to say, "No," when he asked me to move to his state so we could, "date." What I do know is I will have to give myself some much needed TLC. I'm grateful I found a lovely place to live and I have a better paying job than I did in my home state, and when I first moved here. I have Delilah. I have my health, and no one can take that away from me. And, oh, I also feel like he's going off on the deep end with his penitence. I'm trying to be gracious and understanding. My heart just really hurts right now. XOXO If there was a nail in the coffin it had to be his suggestion that you have to stay hidden for him to be above reproach. Fuck. That. |
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Anxiety
Aug 16, 2016 18:15:01 GMT -5
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Post by unmatched on Aug 16, 2016 18:15:01 GMT -5
That really sucks. I can't see any good reason for you to be gracious and understanding at all. He has fucked you around big time, been completely selfish and all in the name of some kind of spirituality. Which as far as I can see has nothing to do with God and everything to do with wanting safety and approval. If I were in your shoes I would be sticking his photo on my door and throwing darts at it.
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Anxiety
Aug 16, 2016 18:54:00 GMT -5
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Post by baza on Aug 16, 2016 18:54:00 GMT -5
Sheeez.
If this user gets a gig at deaconing, pity the flock he dispenses his particular version of ethical behaviour to.
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Anyway, that's a sidebar to the main game here.
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Obviously you are having second thoughts about this deal Sister pj, and that is a good thing to take a full review of the situation "as it is" and before you invest any additional emotional capital into it.
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