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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 23:00:18 GMT -5
... there goes your credit so you can't get that Maserati you were counting on for your midlife crisis and since you're middle aged and depressed and don't have money you're not picking up any 22 year old coeds so you're broke depressed and sexless... Damn. There goes my coed fantasy, right out the window... I have a van with shag carpet - are you sure that won't draw the honeys? Ass grass or cash... nobody rides for free.
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The Cycle
Aug 20, 2016 13:38:15 GMT -5
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Post by pfviento on Aug 20, 2016 13:38:15 GMT -5
petrushka- For the most part I try to temper any comments due to her tendency to take everything deeply personally. I have gone out of my way to confront people that were causing her issues. I go out of my way to try to keep a cease fire between us going despite being severely aggravated by pulling the lion's share of the chores and getting very little sleep or consideration. During our talks I mostly kept a tight lid on my emotions and always did it on a day I was rested. On the other hand I have my limits and once I get pushed to them all bets are off. The other day she asked for a wet paper towel and got upset that it was "too damp". I was on less than 5 hours of sleep in 2 days. I did ask her to clarify just to make sure I had not misheard. She doubled down on it by stating common sense dictated it was too wet. That pretty much ended the cease fire that day. At times I have to wonder if she's trying to provoke me on purpose. DryCreek. The Finances are a problem that I am getting a handle on. I have already told her that I flat out will not tolerate anymore behind the back stupidity. I have had to bail her out of stupidity on that front twice. She refused to hire a roofer her friend had recommended who I approved of. He was dressed for work and a little rough looking but he knew his business. He would not sign off on her roof for a refi since it was bad. She hired an out of town suit and tie guy who admitted he was not aware of the local code and gave him several hundred down for an inspection she never got paperwork on. Apparently he offered to sign off on it for cash up front after I left for work He only gave her the money back when I promised to file small claims and sent him an official attempt to settle. She picked a different A/C company because the one I used was "too expensive". I agreed to try them but insisted on being there to watch the work. I disagreed with a condensate line they put in. Inspector signed off on it. I shut up despite my reservations about it. It had a long flat run not sloped down. I quietly gathered parts to replace it. It ended up I was right. The water did not drain and flooded a closet and wall. I fixed it got the A/C running in an hour but the water damage was done. At this point I am realizing I may be more gullible than she is. I should know better.
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The Cycle
Aug 20, 2016 16:07:03 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 20, 2016 16:07:03 GMT -5
At this point I am realizing I may be more gullible than she is. I should know better. FWIW, based on the examples you've given, it seems like your wife doesn't trust / respect your opinion / knowledge on practical matters (car, roofing, A/C). Not that guys are magically born with this knowledge, but does it seem like she's *trying* to not take your opinion? Is it that she feels the need to decide for herself, at her own expense? Or is she just determined to go against your advice? I mean, common sense wouldn't let you put new tires on a car she was about to sell; that's either 'not terribly savvy' or just irresponsible behavior. But yes, when you know better and keep quiet, you're complicit in the results. Been there. Sometimes dealing with the aftermath is politically easier than prevention (because prevention requires their faith in your assessment, since the consequences won't occur).
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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2016 17:14:13 GMT -5
"I have already told her that I flat out will not tolerate anymore behind the back stupidity" - you say Brother pfviento. - Have you seen a lawyer to establish how a divorce would shake out for you in your jurisdiction ? Do you have an exit strategy in do-able shape ? Is your support network in place ? Have you checked out how to help kids (if any) transition through such a scenario ? - It is imperative in these situations, that if you "say" something, you must absolutely be prepared to back it up with action. Otherwise, all you do is shred your cred.
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Post by pfviento on Aug 20, 2016 21:35:05 GMT -5
At this point I am realizing I may be more gullible than she is. I should know better. FWIW, based on the examples you've given, it seems like your wife doesn't trust / respect your opinion / knowledge on practical matters (car, roofing, A/C). Not that guys are magically born with this knowledge, but does it seem like she's *trying* to not take your opinion? Is it that she feels the need to decide for herself, at her own expense? Or is she just determined to go against your advice? I mean, common sense wouldn't let you put new tires on a car she was about to sell; that's either 'not terribly savvy' or just irresponsible behavior. But yes, when you know better and keep quiet, you're complicit in the results. Been there. Sometimes dealing with the aftermath is politically easier than prevention (because prevention requires their faith in your assessment, since the consequences won't occur). Drycreek that is a question I ask myself. I suspect the answer is that at times she is trying to prove that she can make smart decisions on her own. The issue with the cars I believe was just an avoidance of the issue. The example being she didn't realize she had run the tires bald and lost one before trade in. When we took it in she realized her funds were tied up for a down payment and she could not afford the tires. She opted not to pull me aside in public and tell me probably to avoid conflict. Once it was over she kept quiet and lied about her intentions to go to the dealer. At the time I thought she was going to support a friend making a purchase. That's the story I got until my Father in Law texted me to let me know the details. She also almost never got oil changes on that car that she traded in. If I had been involved I would have probably told her to get a smaller car (She hits things). In the Roofing case she ignored her friend's advice. I gave mine but I did not get to stay till the conclusion with the 2nd guy to render an opinion on him. I did tell her not to make any decisions. He realized she wanted hear that he would sign off on a bad roof so she could refinance and get it repaired. The guy I liked told her flat out he would not sign off on a bad roof. She took the answer she wanted. The Con Artist told her he'd sign it off on the condition she paid him in cash up front and that he got to pick the contractor (And probably overbid the job and keep a good cut). In that situation she texted me to tell me the agreement she made but after it was done. She was actually proud of that one. I then had to carefully ask "Did anything get put in writing. Why did you pay cash and not a check? What is his proposal?. You paid money what do you actually have concrete at this point?" Then she realized she might have messed up and then it became "Well you are making me feel stupid". "You always have to come in and fix things and It makes me feel useless." "You make me feel like a child now because I can't get it right". I tried to be diplomatic and blame it on the skill of the con artist.
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Post by pfviento on Aug 20, 2016 22:02:09 GMT -5
"I have already told her that I flat out will not tolerate anymore behind the back stupidity" - you say Brother pfviento. - Have you seen a lawyer to establish how a divorce would shake out for you in your jurisdiction ? Do you have an exit strategy in do-able shape ? Is your support network in place ? Have you checked out how to help kids (if any) transition through such a scenario ? - It is imperative in these situations, that if you "say" something, you must absolutely be prepared to back it up with action. Otherwise, all you do is shred your cred. You are right and I have not always done so. In that particular case when I gave that ultimatum I had an exit strategy. We were in debt and I was prepared to lose my property to get us out and start over. I had a brother that offered me a place to stay and start over in a different state and I was prepared to take it. It was then she agreed to never again make another major financial decision without approval. It's not my preferred way of operating but she had proven she could not make good decisions. We also did see a Therapist and she did get her Thyroid checked. Issues remained but they were masked a bit. The lack of sex was a constant problem and that Cycle got started slowly. I chalked some of that off to a miscarriage that happened and a failed round of IVF. I refused to allow a 2nd round due to Finances. She accepted that decision albeit she was not happy. She did not want kids when we got married but the miscarriage changed her mind. We ended up beating the odds and we now have a daughter. The issues that were masked or that I ignored came out during that year. My wife would not get up to help care for the baby at night. She had months off of work I had to struggle through. I tried to be understanding and chalked it off to Post Partum. I finally broke down and had to tell her to step up. The issue persists and I am waiting on sleep apnea testing. The home test showed results that warranted an actual sleep study. Exit Strategy planning is taking place. The real problem I have is after consulting with an attorney is a custody agreement is going to get messy. We both have odd schedules and I would have to 100% rely on her to wake up and take care of my daughter in the mornings when she wakes up. So far she has been unable to do that consistently. Dry Creek and others mentioned the debt and the Attorney pointed out that I could be on the hook for all of her debt now. Paying down debt is the best option at the moment and waiting till my daughter can at least communicate and see to her own needs for food or bathroom if I am not around. The irony is I'm not even sure I mind the lack of sex anymore. It has become a back burner issue at this point. Before I found this forum I thought it was the biggest issue. That viewpoint has changed drastically.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 11:25:47 GMT -5
I hate to bring this up, but how are you preventing your wife from creating even more debt for you to pay down? If you don't have a plan in place for that, you're essentially trapping yourself in an endless loop. My sister's ex applied for and got credit cards that she didn't even know about until the divorce - $97,000 of debt that she ended up paying for because he was a deadbeat and the creditors came after her even though the court ordered him to pay half.
I do understand waiting until your daughter is old enough to take care of her most basic needs, and hopefully be able to wake her mother up or at least call you or someone else for help. If your wife truly can't wake up to take care of her child, she's going to lose primary custody. I don't like to be harsh, but that would make her an unfit mother in most people's eyes, including a judge. Is it possible that she "can't" wake up because she knows you are there to cover for her? I wonder if she would be more capable if she knew it was on her to take care of your baby. As a mother, I find it unthinkable that a parent would be able to sleep through a child's cries knowing they were the only one there to care for them. Obviously, you would have a better idea of the situation and the sleep study may give you some key information. It just crossed my mind that she might be more capable than she's letting on if she didn't always have you to step up to the plate for her.
I'm glad you've consulted an attorney. Information is power. Now you can start figuring out what you need to do to make things work. Have you considered a separation? That would protect your finances at least. Depending on your state, you can be separated and still share a residence. In California, once I filed for divorce, we were considered "separated" even though we still lived together (separate bedrooms) and a restraining order immediately went into effect preventing either of us from making any large financial moves or from leaving the state with our children. It was a damn good thing I did that, because he threatened to sell off all our stocks at one point when the market was down and I was able to prevent him from doing that (good thing since the market recovered and now those stocks are worth even more). Filing for divorce doesn't mean you have to follow through in the end, but it does offer you some protections and it might make your wife realize how serious you are about things.
Keep in mind that protecting yourself also protects your daughter.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 21, 2016 12:40:35 GMT -5
@mountainrunner , you make a great point. The thing that kept undermining my dad is that he'd discover entire new sets of maxed out credit cards that he had no knowledge of. I think even without filing for divorce you can file for legal separation, which shields you from any new debts, as well as reckless actions (say, a wreck with injuries and liability).
It also crossed my mind that if she clearly can't care for her daughter, that would pose a legitimate custody problem for her. But you make a great point that her behavior might very well change when she doesn't have someone there to cover for her - that, I've seen happen often.
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Post by pfviento on Aug 22, 2016 21:02:30 GMT -5
I hate to bring this up, but how are you preventing your wife from creating even more debt for you to pay down? If you don't have a plan in place for that, you're essentially trapping yourself in an endless loop. My sister's ex applied for and got credit cards that she didn't even know about until the divorce - $97,000 of debt that she ended up paying for because he was a deadbeat and the creditors came after her even though the court ordered him to pay half. I do understand waiting until your daughter is old enough to take care of her most basic needs, and hopefully be able to wake her mother up or at least call you or someone else for help. If your wife truly can't wake up to take care of her child, she's going to lose primary custody. I don't like to be harsh, but that would make her an unfit mother in most people's eyes, including a judge. Is it possible that she "can't" wake up because she knows you are there to cover for her? I wonder if she would be more capable if she knew it was on her to take care of your baby. As a mother, I find it unthinkable that a parent would be able to sleep through a child's cries knowing they were the only one there to care for them. Obviously, you would have a better idea of the situation and the sleep study may give you some key information. It just crossed my mind that she might be more capable than she's letting on if she didn't always have you to step up to the plate for her. I'm glad you've consulted an attorney. Information is power. Now you can start figuring out what you need to do to make things work. Have you considered a separation? That would protect your finances at least. Depending on your state, you can be separated and still share a residence. In California, once I filed for divorce, we were considered "separated" even though we still lived together (separate bedrooms) and a restraining order immediately went into effect preventing either of us from making any large financial moves or from leaving the state with our children. It was a damn good thing I did that, because he threatened to sell off all our stocks at one point when the market was down and I was able to prevent him from doing that (good thing since the market recovered and now those stocks are worth even more). Filing for divorce doesn't mean you have to follow through in the end, but it does offer you some protections and it might make your wife realize how serious you are about things. Keep in mind that protecting yourself also protects your daughter. No need to worry about bringing up a valid point. It's something I know I have stressed over. I do monitor her accounts now and keep an eye on the activity. It doesn't mean she can't still do it. I think in this case her self interest in keeping the status quo keeps her in check. She's admitted she has trouble dealing with stress and relies on the help she gets. It might just be fear of being alone but when she is awake she does try to help more and is an involved parent barring anxiety attack. I like Baza's posts and some of his comments are not what you want to hear but WHAT you need to hear. I don't have any problems with people being blunt and honest. I have more than my share of missed warning signs and bad decisions that led me here. How did I not realize that sleep pattern was going to be an issue with a baby? I thought the sexless marriage was the biggest problem until I started reading this forum. I found this place a bit too late to ask myself the right questions. Her sleep issues are legitimate. I'm not sure what the cause is but I know she truly can sleep through damn near anything. Her alarms are the loudest and most annoying things I have ever heard in my life and she can manage to sleep through them somehow. It can take me 4-5 attempts to get her fully awake. I don't doubt I have contributed to her being able to continue this pattern. I thought I was being a good husband and trying to be understanding and finding ways to get more sleep. I may have in fact been doing the wrong thing by delaying her getting help until I finally couldn't do it anymore. Right now I have a daughter too dependent on having two parents. More than one therapist has pointed out that right now my wife's mental stability is very dependent on my ability to support her emotionally. That's not sustainable but I will bear it while I exhaust the medical possibilities. It's possible she is just too depressed or prone to anxiety to be able to function normally without 12-14 hours of sleep. I may be wasting my time and delaying the inevitable but I know I won't leave until my daughter is able to communicate. I am painfully aware I'm not getting any younger and some of you guys have helped immensely with giving me food for thought on the consequences of my decisions. I really wish I had found this community much earlier. There are so many insightful and articulate people here. I have learned more browsing stories here than I did from any therapist I met with.
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The Cycle
Aug 22, 2016 22:28:28 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2016 22:28:28 GMT -5
I hate to bring this up, but how are you preventing your wife from creating even more debt for you to pay down? If you don't have a plan in place for that, you're essentially trapping yourself in an endless loop. My sister's ex applied for and got credit cards that she didn't even know about until the divorce - $97,000 of debt that she ended up paying for because he was a deadbeat and the creditors came after her even though the court ordered him to pay half. I do understand waiting until your daughter is old enough to take care of her most basic needs, and hopefully be able to wake her mother up or at least call you or someone else for help. If your wife truly can't wake up to take care of her child, she's going to lose primary custody. I don't like to be harsh, but that would make her an unfit mother in most people's eyes, including a judge. Is it possible that she "can't" wake up because she knows you are there to cover for her? I wonder if she would be more capable if she knew it was on her to take care of your baby. As a mother, I find it unthinkable that a parent would be able to sleep through a child's cries knowing they were the only one there to care for them. Obviously, you would have a better idea of the situation and the sleep study may give you some key information. It just crossed my mind that she might be more capable than she's letting on if she didn't always have you to step up to the plate for her. I'm glad you've consulted an attorney. Information is power. Now you can start figuring out what you need to do to make things work. Have you considered a separation? That would protect your finances at least. Depending on your state, you can be separated and still share a residence. In California, once I filed for divorce, we were considered "separated" even though we still lived together (separate bedrooms) and a restraining order immediately went into effect preventing either of us from making any large financial moves or from leaving the state with our children. It was a damn good thing I did that, because he threatened to sell off all our stocks at one point when the market was down and I was able to prevent him from doing that (good thing since the market recovered and now those stocks are worth even more). Filing for divorce doesn't mean you have to follow through in the end, but it does offer you some protections and it might make your wife realize how serious you are about things. Keep in mind that protecting yourself also protects your daughter. Just to harp again on one of my broken records, thanks for emphasizing that creditors are not a party to your separation agreement or court order! The court may order your ex to pay this or that debt, but that doesn't mean squat to anybody you owe money to. All your creditors care about is they have paper with your name on it. If your ex doesn't pay, he or she is in contempt of court, but that doesn't help you. It may be tempting to try to get your ex to take as much debt as possible, but if that debt has your name on it you better discuss this with your lawyer. Yeah everything acquired during the marriage, including debt, is joint...in the eyes of the family court. Creditors are neither interested in nor obligated to consider such subtleties. Now, if your deadbeat ex fails to pay six figures of debt with your name on it, you can negotiate with your creditors, but that's pretty much up to them how much if any debt to forgive. They don't have to cut you one penny slack. Unless maybe you hire a hotshot lawyer to negotiate for you. Which you should be able to afford because see you have this court order...oh wait a minute.
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