Post by worksforme2 on Sept 18, 2017 9:34:10 GMT -5
When I was chasing the "why" I must have read a hundred articles and chunks of advice from so called "marriage" experts. And then I tried putting them into practice. My X almost never noticed that I was doing something different from last weeks behavior. Or if she did it wasn't worth her time to comment. I feel sorry for the poor dumb basta*d that thinks this sort of voodoo can set the floundering ship aright.
Question time: If one of us was outsourcing and got caught, and the refuser then wanted a divorce - what would happen if we objected and said, "But it's only sex! Sex isn't the important thing in a marriage. What are you so upset about?"
Rhetorical question, I know.
My experience.....As my marriage was slowly cratering and I ran out of approaches trying to fix it, I had 3 talks with my then W. about me having a FWB. I approached it from the stand point of a win-win for both of us. I got the sexual and intimacy component I longed for and she no longer had to contend with me constantly trying to force intimacy and sex on her. I assured her there would be no danger of her losing her position as my W. But she would have no part of it. She was adamant that no one else would be on the receiving end my little swimmers but her. The head scratching part was she had no desire for my little swimmers. Being an Alpha woman she could not countenance the idea of another woman sharing my bed.
Post by worksforme2 on Sept 11, 2017 11:10:46 GMT -5
I am in agreement with seeing an attorney to get some clarification on how things might go for you. If you want to make the most of the 1st visit I suggest going on line and googling "questions to ask when getting a divorce". Educate yourself a bit before your visit(s) and concentrate on what is relevant or that you feel is applicable or important to you. Make the most of your 1st visit to get a feel for how the attorney views the potential case and what state law has to say about what you are entitled to, and to get a feel for what are reasonable expectations coming out the other side. Every thing in this consultation is privileged so ask about the potential downside of having a romantic relationship with a male "friend".
Post by worksforme2 on Sept 9, 2017 19:21:01 GMT -5
For the most part I am in the boat with northstarmom. But.... It seems to me that you are allowing your H to drive the boat and control what options are on the table. How is it that you cannot offer up a counter proposal? You stay, don't divorce, but a policy of "don't ask, don't tell" becomes the new modus operando. You have the option of having someone to fill the voids he chooses to ignore. You will be discrete, you won't do anything to embarrass him or imperil his role as a father, but you will have a life that includes all the normal activities and perks of a marriage and that includes a healthy sexually active component. It will be his choice if he is one of the people in the room when the sexually active part takes place. It just doesn't seem fair to you that he has complete control in the decision as to what your options are...And how is it that the counselor is OK with this ultimatum?
That's exactly how I feel. I feel like I'm done but actually following through is difficult. My threshold for discomfort may not have reached the point where it is bad enough that I am willing to press the button, despite being extremely uncomfortable.
For me the hardiest part was finally accepting the truth of the situation and acknowledging that it was never going to get fixed. She would never feel for me the way I felt for her. So we would never again have the real meat and potatoes (love, trust, empathy,) that yoke 2 people together in a marriage. Once I knew I was done, pushing the kill switch came pretty easy.
Post by worksforme2 on Sept 6, 2017 3:10:25 GMT -5
Just to fill in the gaps. When you both agreed that counseling was a must , who was supposed to set about finding a counselor that might work for the 2 of you? If you have decided you are no longer going to make an effort to make it work, how is setting an arbitrary deadline for change or some kind of improvement supposed to work? I understand your distancing yourself from the emotional components of the relationship, I did the same when I knew I was done, but are you doing it because you are done or to force some sort of capitulation from your W? You state to your friend that you actually don't want to work it out, but you are still asking you W to go into counseling, what's the end goal? This post reads like you are done, but you can't quite bring yourself to push the kill switch.
I'll apologize but I'm pleasantly shocked to read about women older than 50 wanting sex many times per week.
As is often the case when dealing with stereotypes of people, what you read or hear ain't necessarily so. It is true that as we age both sexes usually undergo a decrease of hormones, especially the ones that drive our libidos. But as someone nearing 70 and recently divorced and dating again, I can state there are women over age 50 with very active sex lives. I have been fortunate having found a couple of them since reentering the dating pool. My current partner at age 65 has a much higher libido than me. Now I understand how women feel when they talk about men as always trying to get their pants off. Most women your age will greatly appreciate a man that takes care of himself. If you bring a few other assets to the table, like a good sense of humor, a generous nature, an appreciation for others peoples ideas, opinions and values, a health approach to sexuality, and an honest appraisal of what you are looking for and the expectations you have for future relationships, you will almost certainly find women in your age bracket that will appreciate those attributes and be eager to take you to their buxom, and other places.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 30, 2017 10:32:59 GMT -5
You have of coarse had "the talk" w your W, so she knows how her behavior is negatively affecting you and the marriage, Right...So how many talks have you had and are you sure she knows her actions (lack of action) may end up being killer in the marriage? This reads like you are fairly young, say late 20's to late 30's so pre-menopause isn't part of the picture. You don't mention if she ever initiates or once did. So I am assuming you are the initiator if there is any intimacy. Something I concluded about my X was that desire and arousal were reversed. Usually desire comes 1st then arousal. Perhaps that's going on in your situation. If so, her libido may be low so she has little desire initially. But once foreplay had been going on a bit she becomes aroused and then she desires more in the way of sex. Does this sound like a possibility?
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 27, 2017 20:17:55 GMT -5
There are a # of aspects in your post that had me reminiscing about some behaviors exhibited by my X. Their behaviors exhibited by most refusers. Endless reasons for no intimacy and definitely avoiding sex. Except when it is time to reset us. My X was as regular as a payout for a stock dividend. Every 3 months she would suddenly announce she was "in the mood". I guess this type of bold proclamation is supposed to put us "in the mood" straight away. It looks like the clock has just been "reset" for you. The term "deal breaker" is often heard here. Disengagement is a behavior that often accompanies reaching or approaching deal breaker status. It should not come as a surprise that your W used the term disengaged. She probably knows you pretty well so the behavior you have been exhibiting the past few months has to have her radar up. How could she not notice? She knows you are deliberately moving away from her emotionally as well as physically. It's what one does as a means of self defense. My X has stated several times she has no interest or desire to have sex ever again. Not with me or anyone else. A number of women she pals around with are also of this mindset. One of them just ended a 20 plus years relationship. They act as a cheering squad for each other when it comes to keeping their men on a pretty short leash with regard to sex. Only a few are still intimate with their partners. So your W bonding with another woman who dislikes sex doesn't come as a surprise to me. You have a difficult path ahead. No one can say what your outcome will be for any path you choose. If you leave there is no guarantee of happiness. If you stay there is a statistically high probability of the continued feeling of being broken and all the unhappiness that felling brings with it. Unless you can come to terms with the absence of intimacy and love in your life. If you can do that, accept the void and be at peace with it, then staying can be the path that offers the most certainty. Everything else is uncertainty.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 25, 2017 18:03:18 GMT -5
As you are new to the forum I will advise you to continue reading the many stories and varying advice given. You may find those here whose advice or tone resonate with you read their back stories and see how they dealt or are dealing with their S/M. You echo what many (including me) often state upon first arriving here. Everything is pretty good except for the sex. Take some time to really examine your marriage. Is there any other form of intimacy there? Any kissing, hugging, cuddling or pillow talk? I bet not. Flashjohn is correct in that there are lots of people who could care less about intimacy. They are essentially asexual. My X has said on several occasions she could care less if she never had sex again. I do not think your W loves you. If she did she would not be doling out starfish sex. What you look like, how you treat her, what matters to you are of little concern to her. She may be an excellent room mate. But it highly unlikely she will ever be the W you once had. Those days are gone. The advice on seeing a lawyer is spot on. Your W is dead set against divorce, so it's almost a given she will not hold still in allowing a FWB for you. You could go outside the marriage but if you are caught the price you are likely to pay will be high. One thing you might consider doing is to stop covering for her. Let your friends and family know there is trouble in paradise and let they know why. See if she is OK with everyone knowing she is holding you prisoner in a S/M.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 24, 2017 7:37:18 GMT -5
In hindsight I don't think I would have married my refuser. Prior to the marriage she was quite willing and adventurous between the sheets. She initiated often. After the marriage not so much. I don't think it was a bait and switch. We dated/engaged for 17 or 18 yrs. And when the intimacy slowed I would have been more proactive in fixing myself. But after the marriage she pretty much stopped initiating . It was like OK we're married now so this wild single woman stuff can go away. Unfortunately that wasn't the only thing that ended yup going away.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 21, 2017 14:32:43 GMT -5
Welcome to the fraternity brother iceman. After a mandatory 1 year separation my divorce was final in May of '16. I had purchased my 3rd Harley Sportster some months before. My X had never been on a motorcycle so one day we went for a ride. A couple hours later we returned to her place and went inside. I ask if she enjoyed her 1st ride. She said yes and now I was going to get lucky. So after a years separation we f*cked each other right down to a nub. There's something special about X sex isn't there? I'm in the boat with flashjohn. Bang your X as long as she is interested and available. As for your refuser, she has no one to blame but herself.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 20, 2017 11:48:43 GMT -5
This is a discussion I have been having with myself of late. Not from the family unit perspective as a desired result, but from the missing my X because of what was shared for over 20 yrs. After our divorce we dated probably once a month and were sexual about every 3 months so it was sort of similar in some regards to still being married, except we didn't live together or travel as we once did. And I miss that. She was an excellent co- inhabitor, just a lousy wife. And I miss the discussions we used to have as we dissected a movie or lived vicariously along with the characters in the movie, or spent time hashing through an article one of us read and shared with the other. I haven't found another woman that I can do that sort of stuff with. And I definitely miss doing the things we both shared an interest in. I haven't been crying but I have been wrestling with myself as to why I would want to try and have a meaningful relationship with a woman for whom that seemingly evokes little interest. I want to say to her "after all the time together is there to be nothing more between us"? It's me that does all the keeping in touch, initiating conversation, or spending an evening at the movies or going out for pizza. I have slowed these sorts of shared activities way down because at the end of the evening I find myself lusting after her. And we all know the end results for that sort of thinking. I have been fortunate that sex has been pretty plentiful this year. I actually am challenged to keep up with my current partner. But honestly speaking, I would still rather be f*cking my X. Crazy isn't it? You and I separated from our spouses about the same time so it's funny we would be experiencing this sort of melancholy at the same time. Maybe it's just a phase we are passing through, sort of like Picasso's blue period. Damn those emotions....
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 18, 2017 20:58:21 GMT -5
I'm not in a S/M any more, but when I really need to get myself feeling positive about things, I throw my leg across the ol' Harley. Me and the bike become one as we enjoy a ride down a road we have never been down before.
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 18, 2017 15:30:35 GMT -5
My last hurrah was to propose a FWB for me to remove the pressure and aggravation for her of having to deal with me constantly trying to initiate some form of intimacy. She didn't much want any. At the 3rd discussion of a FWB near the end I stated I couldn't continue in the marriage as things were. At this point she stated she wanted to try to be sexually intimate more often. I thought "she gets it, she finally understands it's going to end if things don't change". And so we were very active for about 3 months. Then all of a sudden she reverted to refusing, avoiding and finding reasons not to be close. I knew then it was never going to change for the better. So I sought out a couple attorneys and started putting together an exit plan.
This the "Shoutbox" -- basically a site-wide, group chat. (It's only visible to members.)
misssunnybunny: Hooray! Glad to hear the pup is home safe and sound!
Sept 3, 2017 20:13:39 GMT -5
brian: My dog went to jail once... she got out, ran to a neighbors house, and they called the police. They came and picked her up and took her to the station instead of the pound. The cops found me plastering the neighborhood with Lost Dog signs.
Sept 4, 2017 6:42:33 GMT -5
brian: So she spent a cpl hours in a jail cell. Hardened criminal, she is!
Sept 4, 2017 6:42:56 GMT -5
solodriver: That's great news wfm2 I'm sure you're both happy! He probably had a scary adventure.
Sept 4, 2017 10:54:40 GMT -5
LITW: so glad you got your dog back ... we had a similar situation a few weeks ago, and its not fun
Sept 6, 2017 9:44:59 GMT -5
greatcoastal: I've got this windy, wet, rain making, idea that I'll be trying out sometime Sunday night. I'll send it to all my friends North of me when I'm done. It'll be a blast!
Sept 7, 2017 9:08:54 GMT -5
misssunnybunny: Anyone else having trouble uploading images? I've tried on Safari, Firefox, Chrome. The image thing keeps telling me that jpg is invalid/not supported file format, and I know I've uploaded plenty as jpg images in the past.
Sept 8, 2017 16:49:16 GMT -5
petrushka: I'll give it a shot and see ...
Sept 9, 2017 2:14:37 GMT -5
petrushka: no rejection experienced, misssunnybunny - I can only conclude that maybe your jpg is corrupt, or maybe your connection was a bit wonky
Sept 9, 2017 2:26:12 GMT -5
tamara68: I had that problem too @missunnybunny, my jpg surely was not currupt but maybe too big. I have just tried with a small image and that worked.
Sept 9, 2017 3:30:19 GMT -5
misssunnybunny: I was able to post pictures yesterday. I'm not sure what the problem was, it just started working again. Ah, technology!
Sept 9, 2017 7:04:41 GMT -5
obobfla: Staying inside with canned goods, bottled water, and flashlights. Still have power, internet, and cable.
Sept 10, 2017 19:05:59 GMT -5