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Post by northstarmom on Apr 22, 2024 11:39:58 GMT -5
Given that virtually all of the women and men have been refused in SMs. I don't understand why anyone here wouldn't think it's important for their partner to find them attractive. Most of us had problems in our marriages because our partners didn't act like they considered us sexy or attractive when it came to physical looks. If my partner only thought my personality was attractive, I'd be worried that he might like me as a friend or roommate but not as a lover. BTDT. I don't want to be in that situation again. I find nothing wrong with physical attractiveness being high on the list for what men and women look for in partners. If a man doesn't find me physically appealing, I don't want him to waste both of our time by dating me.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 19:14:35 GMT -5
I do think that if a woman -- or a man-- is looking for romance, it is to their advantage if they take the time to look their best. In addition to looking kempt, it helps to also look friendly and approachable.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 18:51:46 GMT -5
isthisit: "Okay so I guess our differences lie in that I am very much not a black and white thinker. The people are attractive or repulsive thing is too binary for me. The overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in the middle. A man who was repulsive to me is a non-starter, but this is a tiny minority of people. So, in principle, pretty much everyone has a shot until they turn out to be a dickhead."
You keep making assumptions about me that simply aren't true.There are only a small amount of people whom I'd reject strictly on looks. I gave examples. Most men don't have facial tattoos, meth mouth or big bushy beards (at least not most men who are in their 60s-70s, my age group). I know such beards are attractive to younger people, but they are turnoffs to me when it comes to romance. FWIW, length or quantity of hair on a man's head isn't a deal breaker for me as it is for some women.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 18:22:41 GMT -5
isthisit:"Well I don’t use dating sites for this very reason. I meet people in the real world and get to know them as people long before romance is even an option. I don’t want someone to be primarily interested in how I look, or any other factors, I would prefer for them to be impressed with who I am. I dated a man for six years whom I did not intially find physically attractive but when I discovered more about him I was quickly intoxicated.
I guess I am different to you in this respect. "
We are very similar. I tried on-line dating, went out on one date with 2 different men, and wasn't interested in any of them. The men looked OK and we appeared to have interests in common but when I met them in person, I didn't click with any of them. One was still mourning his ex. Another talked so much I could never get a word in I, too, prefer meeting people in real life but I also know that depending on where you live, that can be hard, especially as one ages.
I'd known my now post sm partner of 11 years for about 3 years before he asked me out. We knew each other from being involved in a local community theater. I'd never considered him a dating prospect until he asked me out. It had just never crossed my mind. But when he asked me out, I figured it would be a chance to practice dating and to get to know him as, at the very least, a friend. He looked OK to me. I wasn't repelled by his looks or I wouldn't have gone out with him.
Over dinner is where I got to know his character, and that's what impressed me. He was comfortable talking about sensitive subjects such as how he froze when giving his junior college student body president graduation speak. He openly admitted he was in bad shape then as his mom, whom he was very close to, had died of cancer just 3 weeks previous to that. My refuser ex used to get a deer in the headlights look even when asked a question like, "What was your childhood like?"
Anyway, I learned that my date and I had important things in common such as similar values, politics, and other interests. The more we talked, the more attractive I found him -- externally and in terms of his character. He also met my wanting to be with a man who had friends and interests of his own so wouldn't depend on me to be his social coordinator.
Thus, my point has never been that a person has to be handsome for me to be attracted to him. My point continues to be that I can't find the person physically repulsive. I don't think that most people choose as friends or dates people whose looks repel them. What are things that I'd find repellant: facial tattoos, meth mouth, and huge bushy beards are what come first to my mind.
FWIW, the dating site I used was OK Cupid, which provides lots of space for people to write about themselves and what they're looking for. Sites that only show one prospects' pictures have never interested me. I want to know more about a person than what their face or body looks like.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 17:41:45 GMT -5
Looks are the first thing we notice about people. If we are repelled by someone's looks we aren't likely to try to get to know them better. Many people now meet prospective partners through dating websites and what the person looks like is very important. The person has to look appealing for a prospective date to want to know more about them. Looks may attract people but personality is what keeps things going.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 17:09:12 GMT -5
FWIW my ex refuser didn't compliment me or f me when I was young and at the height of my attractiveness. I'm now 72. I have c section scars, stress marks, and extra pounds. My post SM lover thinks I'm beautiful and have a beautiful body, However, my self esteem isn't based on his opinion of me. Words of affirmation is one of my major love languages. I now know that a partner who doesn't offer such words to me is not the right person for me to be with,
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 15:36:00 GMT -5
Lonelywife: I did that long before I divorced. I worked out 2 hours a day. I lost 35 pounds. I looked terrific. My husband never commented.
You have to accept that your husband is NEVER going to give you the positive feedback/reactions you want. It's not you. It's him. You can't get love from a stone.
Once you let go of the belief that you can change him, once you accept who he is, you'll be able to let go of a marriage that will never be what you want.
Along the way to getting there, it will help to surround yourself with people who boost you and appreciate you for being the wonderful you whom you are.
I found lovingkindness meditation (look it up. You can find free audios) in which I first give loving affirmations to myself was very helpful in my learning to love and welcome myself.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 13:20:32 GMT -5
lonelywifedeanna: " Now I am just waiting on that part where I decide to divorce without angst, regrets or having another man waiting. How much longer will it take lol. I am impatient :-( he has such an inexplicable grasp on me for no reason. Can you pinpoint a turning point for you? A trigger that helped you? A book or a class? Why is it taking so long…"
At the end, I was staying with my husband because I thought that his disengaged behavior (he had become increasingly emotionally disengaged, but hadn't been that way throughout most of our marriage though we had gone for years at times without sex) was due to incipient Alzheimers, which everyone on his father's side of the family gets as they age. I stayed with him because I honestly thought he was getting dementia and I didn't want to abandon an ill spouse. I also thought he loved me.
However, when I was 60 and he was 62 I found evidence that he was having an affair. So, it was clear that the problem was he was having an affair. He wasn't suffering from dementia. Frankly, I was RELIEVED and divorced without anger or angst. I was just glad to be able to end it!
If I'd realized earlier that he didn't have dementia I would have divorced him earlier without angst or anger. Whether or not he loved me wouldn't have mattered to me. I'd seen my mom stay married to my father who verbally and physically abused her and cheated on her. She refused to divorce him because she thought divorce is embarrassing. She ended up, however, becoming his caregiver when he had a series of strokes when he was in his late 60s. By the time he died -- about 6 years later -- she was so depressed and worn out that every night she prayed to die in her sleep.
My husband was a good husband, good provider, good involved father. If he'd been physically or verbally abusive and/or if I had been the only breadwinner, I would have had no problems leaving him much earlier.
My advice for you is to focus your individual therapy on your getting a divorce. Have your therapist support you as you have consultations with lawyers to find out how divorce would work out for you. Have your therapist support you as you get the financial and other paperwork ready. I have panic attacks when dealing with financial paperwork so when I did my divorce paperwork, I did part of it during my therapy appointments, and I had a very good trusted friend, a finance professor, help me with the other parts. I'd actually ended my individual therapy a few years earlier after I'd grown into the type of person I'd always admired. Only reason I returned to therapy was for support with what was for me the hard part of divorce -- financial paperwork.
Make divorce your priority in your therapy. If you wait too long, you may find yourself in the situation my mom ended up in -- with a husband so ill or disabled that you truly feel stuck with him. The longer you stay married while being the breadwinner, the more you're likely to owe your husband in alimony. So for your own sake, start getting info from divorce lawyers. Often the first visit is free.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 13:04:22 GMT -5
mirrorchid: " Horrifying? It's an observation of the obvious in all it's sexist, superficial glory...but the child isn't responsible for it, and it would be worrisome if he did not have an inkling about the shallow side of pair bonding, even if we have the wisdom to value other things more."
There's nothing shallow about wanting a romantic partner whom one finds pleasant to look at. It's very rare for people to not take looks into consideration when looking for a romantic partner. The exceptions are some asexuals. One of my sons is asexual and looks are of no importance when it comes to his attraction to others. At the same time, while he can be attracted to people in a nonsexual way, he feels no sexual attraction to anyone. Incidentally, he is handsome and I've seen women turn their heads to look at him. He thinks that I'm shallow because looks are part of what makes people romantically attractive to me. He is 36 and has never dated. He has very good platonic friends. He seems perfectly happy not having a partner.
There's nothing sexist or superficial about having preferences when it comes to the type of people one finds attractive. Not all men are attracted to thin women with long hair. There are cultures in which women whom many of us would consider grossly overweight are the beauty standard. There a cultures in which long necks are considered very sexy. There are culltures in which small breasts are considered more attractive than large ones. There also are many different individual preferences within cultures.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 18, 2024 10:20:13 GMT -5
lonelywifedeanna: Get into individual therapy -- for yourself not to try to change your husband. Several years before I divorced or even thought of divorcing I got into therapy with a woman social worker whose expertise was with women suffering midlife crises. With her help, a focused on taking steps under my control to improv my life. I got involved in activities that interested me. I started working out regularly, took classes that interested me, made friends on my own -- without having my husband in tow. I became the kind of person I'd always admired but never thought I could be.
A couple of years after I completed therapy, I decided to divorce and did it without angst or regrets or needing to have another man waiting in the wings. Focus on you this way. Don't focus on your husband -- focus on the positive things you can develop and grow within yourself.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 18, 2024 6:58:01 GMT -5
is this it: "I am trying not to be horrified that her seven year old child perceives a priority to men is how a woman looks. My kids had better values at 7. "
why would it not be considered normal for men and women to want partners whom they find attractive and who take the time to look good for them? Who wants to be with a slob of a partner whom one finds hard to look at?
The article very clearly said that men aren't looking for supermodels but for someone whom they find appealing to look at. That's just common sense. If you were to date someone would you want to date someone whose face or body repelled you or who looked like they made no effort to look good for a date?
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 25, 2024 19:34:08 GMT -5
jim4444 said: " You have mentioned his health, do you want to be there with him if he suffers a true debilitating crisis?"
Perceptive question. My mom, due to embarrassment, refused to divorce my dad who'd cheated on her from the first days of their marriage. During what should have been her golden years, she ended up being his caregiver after he had strokes and became mute, partly paralyzed and incontinent. By the time he died, she was so depressed she told me that every night she prayed to die. She had very little joy during the rest of her life because she was so broken down after that marriage.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 5, 2024 16:15:28 GMT -5
m76: Your marital counseliing sessions are the perfect place to tell her it's over or what needs to happen for your marriage to continue.
The reason that many people like marital counseling is useless is because that's the place in which many announce or realize that their marriage is over. Some even go into marital counseling as a way of giving their partner support when they announce that they plan to divorce. Not all marriages can be healed through counseling. In some, the issues are so deep and/or the couple is so incompatible that the best that counseling can do is help the partners agree to divorce and move on.
Your wife's lack of participation in the counseling indicates that healing the marriage isn't something important to her. She may even be like my ex-- who only went through the motions in counseling -- who quickly agreed when I finally asked for a divorce. He'd checked out long ago....
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 4, 2024 17:27:28 GMT -5
worksforme, check out retirement homes but do use protection. "EXCLUSIVE: Experts warn of STI epidemic in RETIREMENT HOMES: Infection rates among seniors have quadrupled in some states over last decade — as doctors blame elderly DATING APPS, care-free attitudes and ease of access to Viagra STI doctors said they have seen frail seniors come into clinics with oxygen tanks Rates have doubled nationally among elderly in past decade - some states 4x " www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11969897/Frisky-seniors-Experts-warn-STI-epidemic-RETIREMENT-HOMES.htmlFWIW the sexually active senior women I know are very active with activities such as going to the gym, taking various classes, working part time, etc.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 29, 2024 21:48:40 GMT -5
Drycreek: "Likewise, if I give my wife 10 years of savings, then that is 10 years longer that I must work to have the same quality of retirement. I may not be so attached to the bank balance, but I’m very attached to having my retirement years."
Have you considered what if you die before you retire? None of us can count on tomorrow.....
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