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Post by petrushka on Dec 12, 2022 18:24:33 GMT -5
I just saw this quote: "You can't give your life more time so give the time you have more life." I like that.
Similar, and something I've tried to emulate: live in the here and now; don't live in a future (that may never happen), and don't (re)live in the past.
My parents were prime examples of living in the future. Always denying themselves - to save for the future. Money, travel, enjoyment. "One day we will ...." except they never did. Died at 92, without having had joy, without happiness, without enjoyment in their lives.
perfect worker ants.
Setting a Great example for me: how I don't want to live.
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Post by petrushka on Nov 9, 2022 9:42:20 GMT -5
Read recently, " happy wife,happy life", is the most devastating advice ever offered. Men run themselves ragged trying to make her happy and avoiding at all costs any scintilla of conflict. I am guilty of this. Mature relationships are when equals pushes back, when conflict is not avoided and issues are solved or can go hang. For the first 9 years of my marriage I tried to make my wife happy. Nothing was ever right. There was always a reason for her to get angry, withdraw, whatever. Once I got involved in the iliasm group on EP I began to realize that there is a pervasive pattern that a lot of people in sexless/intimacy-less relationships experience. I was running, running, running on a hamsterwheel. None of my efforts were appreciated, on the contrary. Inwardly, she raged.
At the same time it began to come clear to me that not only extremely controlling psychopaths get into gaslighting.
Theexplorer's wife is clearly trying to isolate him, all the better to control him, his behaviour as she wants it.
Now here's the funny bit. The moment I decided to drop it (i.e. trying to make my wife happy, to please her, to be more attractive to her), the shit in the relationship settled right down! I decided to just look after my OWN happiness. To leave her alone. Not only did that make her a happier person, she's thawed to the point where you would not recognize her as the person she used to be.
That's not a universal truth. I tried to give my first wife as much freedom to do what she wanted, to make her own friends and express herself, while encouraging and supporting her all the way,
but she thought I was neglecting her. Heh. What didn't work for one, works perfectly for the other.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 24, 2022 1:50:25 GMT -5
I really knew things had to change was when I was wishing he was dead, and when I had retreated into a dark place and turned into a person I did not recognize. I knew then I needed out before it all destroyed me. I have ZERO regrets that I left. I've been out almost a decade and it was the best decision I could have made for myself. I took time to stay in therapy and work on my own issues, and slowly started to become me again. I waited a while to even think about dating, and it took a while to want to get back out there to find someone new (eventually I did, and we are a much better match, very happy now!)
I can relate to this as far as my first marriage is concerned. The day came when my 1st wife totalled my car, getting into a head on collision on a dead straight road because she wasn't looking where she was going. I got a call from a cagey cop telling me to pick her up at a hospita 80km (50 miles) away, but would not say how she was, just that the car was 'not so well', nor what had happened. {eye roll} And on my way to the hospital I was thinking why the hell was she in the hospital, why hadn't she just gone and killed herself, she was just such a dead weight pulling me down, down, down, emotionally. (incidentally I later saw the car, the passenger side roof was down at seat level -- they had to ask her several times if she'd had a passenger).
Anyway, many moons later, we had bought the big farm, worked hard, and made a deal that she would go tramping with a helper we had while I stayed behind, with another helper. Then, I would get a holiday when she came back ... well she went, and came back, I picked her up from the airport bus since she didn't want me to pick her up from the airport ... I gave her a big hug and a kiss and swung her around and she hissed at me "not in PUBLIC". That was my F-you moment. I realized that nothing would change ever, I'd just get more and more unhappy. Three days later she moved into the spare bedroom because I told her I was done. She worked for me for another 3 months and left. Totally civilized divorce, we had to wait a year, then went to the family court and that was it. No trouble, no strife, nothing acrimonious.
For the next two years I felt like I was floating with happiness. My feet barely touched the ground. It was just so good to be OUT.
It had been the death of 10,000 cuts. I gave her my heart, and she sliced and diced it and gave it back to me on a tarnished silver salver. Took me 10 years before I could even let a woman get close to me physically. But, hosianna, I was OUT!
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Post by petrushka on Oct 22, 2022 16:06:26 GMT -5
I find it mind-boggling how many people manage their finances. Multiple credit cards, sometimes several maxxed out, buy household items on credit or hire/purchase, or take 'no interest for 5 years' type deals ... {sigh} if you get into that, you end up being a bankers' dupe.
And the important thought to have about this: if you are a banker's dupe, you pay twice as much for *everything* you buy than I do. Mmmmm-hmmm. You pay twice as much as I do.
1 - I don't buy stuff that I want but don't need unless I already have the money to pay for it. Seriously. Learn to tell the difference. In fact, make it an ironclad rule. 2 - if you use a credit card at all, make sure it's always paid off before the end of the month. Credit card interest rates are extortionate. Wrack and ruin. Don't be tempted to use several cards. One card, and use a phone app or something to keep track of how much you owe. I don't know if you have these in your country, but if you have trouble managing a credit card, you can get a 'Debit Card' where you pay money in when your paycheck arrives, and you can't spend more than what's actually on that card. No penalty interest or such. 3 - don't buy stuff just because it's sparkly and shiny, and the neighbours have one. You probably do NOT need it. It may take a little self control, but worth it.
Some of my not so wise friends used to always live at the far end of their bank overdraft. You pay fees, charges, interest. None of that stuff is given you you out of the charity of a banker's loving heart. They'd get a loan for putting up a cabinet making workshop (a worth while enterprise) and then spend the money instead on a stainless fridge, entertainment electronics, and he continued to use MY workshop, paid me rent (which I tried to refuse, but he insisted), all the while paying interest on a loan for a workshop that wasn't making an income to pay for the loan because it didn't exist. That's how you get into a hole.
Then they wondered how I could afford driving a Volvo. Envy ensued. Simple: I drove an old beater until I had saved up for a 2nd hand Volvo in good condition. Then I bought it. No loan, no 'finance', no charges and on-going expenses except petrol - and while they were still paying off stuff, I could begin saving up for the next item on my list, because I wasn't handing all my income over to the bankers -- not even ANY of it... other than mortgage payments on the farm that was actually generating money, rather than being a drain.
If you think about it in those terms, it's clear as mud. Common (uncommon?) sense. It just takes a little thought and a moderate amount of discipline. If you feel the urge, the immediate need to buy something shiny or sparkly - stomp on it, think about it for a few days - then think if you really need it.
Disclosure: I have spent many a night 'researching' items to buy on the 'net and review sites and comparing prices, stomped on the urge to buy buy buy for a few days, and then realized that no, that item was not going to add value to my lifestyle. So I don't have a tv, I don't have an Alexa, or a Siri, a fashionable i-phone (overpriced and they lock you into the Apple eco-system), I don't have a collection of 35 guns, I don't have a single piece of jewelry ... but I have huge concrete house with underfloor heating, an indoor swimming pool (really the only form of exercise suitable for my body) and my wood-shop in the yard. And I don't owe anyone a cent ...
Unfortunately the bankers have found another way. The investment bankers have lost 300k of my rainy day fund ...{sigh} in less than a year . I'm ready to spit brass tacks.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 21:13:00 GMT -5
My wife knows I am on here. Heh, she even came out 'maybe I should join too. I told her that I didn't think she'd find a lot of support and sympathy
as the asexual in the marriage - she hasn't brought it up again.
Back in the day all my close friends knew. Sadly, they trickled away, and then we moved to town ourselves - but, I am not ashamed. If one of the neighbours finds out, then so be it.
Happy to be me, and to stand up for myself. Anyone tries to give me shit over it, will get told to go soak their head.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 18:23:00 GMT -5
VERY “happy” (at least relieved) that others find themselves in this “involuntary celibacy” state. For me, my stress/ anxiety/ frustration/ anger is really about respect. Is she passive aggressive withholding anything & everything? Or just a “partner” who wants to be married… like a roommate. Very very hurtful. Deliberately. Cant change her. Have changed myself a thousand times. Takes two to tango. ALL MY LIFE, i just wanted to share my life with a life-partner. Intimacy in any form is rejected as “all men are obsessed w/ their 🍆s” (her words). Its truly ridiculous how selfish, self-centered, insulting & demeaning. Partnership and caring-sharing-doing-growing-living TOGETHER was all ive wanted all my life. I’ve seen waaay too many lives lost in my circles. Does mine end next? And does my “partner” ever change before then? I never realized how many of “us” are out here, intentionally ignored & disrespected. Hi there.
Dictum 1: you can never change another person. They can only change themselves if they want to. And if they don't want to? SOOL. The problem here is, generally the intimacy~ and sex-adverse see no reason why they should want to change, after all, they get their minimal needs met. (not including the psychos here - as you said, 'deliberate'). Fact of life is, some people just don't want it or can't be bothered to get their arse into gear to put any effort into a thing that does not give *them* much of a reward. And lets face it, you have to make an effort for good sex.
My personal version of dictum 2: intimacy is not the same as the friction of mucous membranes. A good sex life can enhance a relationship and make you happy, for a while at least, but intimacy has a much wider meaning than that. sharing thoughts, emotions, sorrows, delights, succor ...
“all men are obsessed w/ their 🍆s” (her words) That's dictum 3, kinda. Yah, that one. I was wooing a girl once, and when I gave her a hug and a kiss to thank her for folding my washing, I got hit over the head with that little gem and pushed away. 1- I was not feeling sexual at that moment, and 2 - I really don't like being painted with such a broad brush - and get rejected as a consequence. She didn't stay the week. Seriously, I had thought her to be a bit more conscious than that.
)* SOOL: shit out of luck
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 18:01:12 GMT -5
To get an informed opinion of what co-dependency is, read the book "women who love too much" by Robin Norwood.
from "goodreads": Women Who Love Too Much: When You Keep Wishing and Hoping He'll Change by Robin Norwood 4.02 · []
This text is suitable for the reader for whom being in love means being in pain. Therapist Robin Norwood describes loving too much as a pattern of thoughts and behaviour which certain women develop as a response to problems from childhood.
Well, not just women, actually. What's with the sexism here?
However, what people attribute to the word often misses the point. Really, read the book if you're interested. Supposedly a free version here:
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 17:32:29 GMT -5
The things that Colleen (as quoted by Mr. GreatCoastal) missed out on are: hope, and projection. We hope that the red flag was a one off, we hope that the person will see the light. We hope that things will get better. (ha!) We project on to people. There's a reason why the lovelorn can never see why their best friends dislike (or worse) their new lover. It is, mostly, quite simply because we none of us can completely take in and see and understand that stranger we're suddenly hanging out with; whom we find attractive, which is completely unsustainable as a *reason* for a successful or fulfilling relationship to result. So we paint a mental picture of them. This pretty attractive being. We fill in the gaps --- with our desires and wishes. Idealize them and paint over the red flags. And 5 years later -- or, in some cases, the morning after the ceremony --- we find out they are not at all the person we *imagined* them to be. So my take is: don't paint over the red flags. Follow up. I might have found out more if I had followed up on my wife's rant about "sex sex sex anywhere you look, in the paper, on the side of busses, women sunbathing topless in the park". It got painted over in my mind by the three day sexual frenzy she assault me with once she had decided she wanted me. mmm-hmmm. And the hope that that was going to be my future. (cynical aside: dogs pissing on lampposts to mark them as property)
Also: don't fall in love with an image you made up in your mind, because that may not be the person sitting next to you on the couch.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 17:03:33 GMT -5
Sadly, it looks like she's not been back since June.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 16, 2022 16:36:41 GMT -5
Hey petrushka ! Great to hear from you! So quantitatively means you are no longer SM or something else? What changed for you. Maybe I'm just dense. Meh, sorry about the 'things feeling shitty' thing. My situation has qualitatively not changed - but quantitatively it definitely has, so, there's little pressure to hang out and blow off steam, or even chat with those in the same boat. Also, most all of the people I can/could personally relate to - consider(ed) friends even - don't post any more.
Maybe, just maybe, I should drop in again more frequently.
Heh. No, there is no sex in my relationship, simply because I am not at all interested in 'starfish sex'. What is ever so much better though, is intimacy in other respects. Talking is much improved. Passive aggressive tantrums have all but disappeared. She comes in the door and sees me and her face lights up. Hugs, kisses (but not French! LoL), snuggles. She no longer stiffens and bends away from a hug, in fact she seeks them out at times and relaxes into them. When she is unhappy about something she comes to me for succor, rather than pushing me away and running/hiding/letting it all out in p/a snarky transference.
In other words, my wife is learning about intimacy, and learning to enjoy it. And I am enjoying all of those aspects of it, too. I don't think she's even remotely aware of the changes she's gone through the last 20 odd years. Basically she's not the woman I married, but a much more developed person, who can accept affection, and express it. Who can see shades of grey (and that's not a reference to a certain pop culture item) but a reference to half her life where there was nothing except for black and white (and a lot less white than black).
Also, I am not far off 70. The drive is still there, but the body is failing in some respects. I seriously don't know if I could still complete a penetrative sex act. {sad face} Actually, that's never been the non plus ultra of my sex life -- my desire and fulfilment were broader than that. But: I've given up looking for a lover. There's not much I am missing out on, by now. A friend or two who are into intimacy - mental, emotional, spiritual would still be welcome in my life.
Absolutely, some sexual activity would be lovely - but doing without at this point is a bit like doing without Black Forest Gateau ....
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Post by petrushka on Oct 15, 2022 7:14:00 GMT -5
I love it when a plan comes together! It’s fun to be able to drop a cultural reference and have your partner get it. I just turned 50 yesterday and if my partner didn't get those references it would just be damn depressing... LOL. My wife is from the former GDR. When it comes to the references she DOES get, writing them up would be a slim volume. The ones she doesn't.... oh, vey. Worse, she's terminally literal minded: stay away from metaphors, aphorisms etc. Surprisingly, despite all that, she's a great person to have intelligent conversations with, I don't mind explaining the background of non-common ground, and she's smart enough to get it, fast. It's not a hold-up. I mean ... there's a difference between never having been exposed to something, and being as dumb as a bag of rocks.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 15, 2022 7:05:13 GMT -5
...my wife had always made me feel like a pervert for wanting sex...my wife angry that I no longer "ask" her for sex (counter refusing) but even when I have tried to initiate over the last year she has pushed me away. ... "So, you want me to be a pervert? Or am I supposed to ask for sex I don't want? I'm confused." This won't help. But it'd be fun. No, it would not be fun, not with a person with BPD. It'd be as much fun as throwing a burning match into the fuel tank of your car.
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Post by petrushka on Oct 15, 2022 6:34:54 GMT -5
Hi there, yes, I'm still here, and don't see anything changing much in the foreseeable future. SO every now and again I will probably post a lament when things are feeling shitty Meh, sorry about the 'things feeling shitty' thing. My situation has qualitatively not changed - but quantitatively it definitely has, so, there's little pressure to hang out and blow off steam, or even chat with those in the same boat. Also, most all of the people I can/could personally relate to - consider(ed) friends even - don't post any more.
Maybe, just maybe, I should drop in again more frequently.
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Post by petrushka on Feb 7, 2022 4:19:02 GMT -5
Most of what is in this thread is ridiculous. I'm surprised that so many people whose opinions on nonpolitical topics are thoughtful seem to think it's fine when a former president and his followers trample democracy. Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea to keep politics away from this forum. Of course, politics start when one man and one woman (or two men, or two women) start living together under one roof ..... {le sigh} .....
but, yeah!
Partisan politics, {shudders}.
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Post by petrushka on Jan 21, 2022 20:34:22 GMT -5
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