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Post by lessingham on Oct 21, 2019 3:25:51 GMT -5
I once read a biopic of a big ego guy. He said that university life was where extroverts paraded their great lives before miserable introverts. I sort of get what he means, the patronising bastard. It is the same with vacations. We are sold fantasies. Adverts for holidays are full of bikini clad women or coupkes romantically staring into each others eyes. Even families are smiling abd having fun. Teens are festooned with tales of sex filled spring breaks or gap years. So we deluded masses pays our money and head off, hoping that we can live that fantasy.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 21, 2019 10:30:10 GMT -5
shamwow Put down "had sex". Call a spade a spade.I am going to agree with Shamwow. If your W doesn't like it, don't debate the issue. One of the most intriguing observations from my marriage counselor was about his surprise at how often people focus on the quantity of the sex, rather than on what he thought might be the driver - the quality. In hindsight, I think even his suggestion was too far downstream - the quality is defined largely by the "presence" one has. Is the sex with someone you don't want to have sex with? No amount of quality is going to overcome that. So, when I was tracking such things, to prevent myself from agreeing to the gaslighting that was happening, I eventually added in more and more notes about what was good and what wasn't, and what other events were happening. I found it to be useful in forcing my attention toward whether it seemed she WANTED to have sex with me. How did she show up? Was it the most minimal effort or the speediest resolution? Were things explicitly off limits? All her terms? What eventually I brute forced myself to realize, over her stated objections, was that she did not want to have sex with me. Even when she did have sex with me, she didn't want to. And even when she did want to have sex, it seemed to work best for her when the "me" part was minimized. If it was a yes/no numbers game, I think it would have taken me longer to shift my intention.
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Post by saarinista on Oct 21, 2019 12:06:34 GMT -5
Is it just me or does everyone get extra horny when you travel? Extra hopeful, I think.
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Post by Handy on Oct 21, 2019 12:23:12 GMT -5
Apocrypha What eventually I brute forced myself to realize, over her stated objections, was that she did (not want to have sex with me.) Even when she did have sex with me, she didn't want to. And even when she did want to have sex, it seemed to work best for her when (the "me" part was minimized.) What stands out to me in your post is the idea of (generally) "not with me" and "the me part was minimized." Is that because there was a miss match, (assuming 2 good people but not right for each other) or you XW wasn't all that sexual, or as in so many relationships one person gets enough sex and becomes board / it ceases to turn them on? Of course kids, money and time together doing things they both enjoy play an important part in many marriages. Think about all of the people that think they are not good at sex. Then think about all of th people that think their spouse is not interested in sex. and lastly,think about the people that get their fill of sex and it becomes similar to eating the same peanut butter sandwich everyday for lunch. I have read women more than men need variety to stay sexually interested in a long term partner.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 21, 2019 13:52:45 GMT -5
Apocrypha What eventually I brute forced myself to realize, over her stated objections, was that she did (not want to have sex with me.) Even when she did have sex with me, she didn't want to. And even when she did want to have sex, it seemed to work best for her when (the "me" part was minimized.) What stands out to me in your post is the idea of (generally) "not with me" and "the me part was minimized." Is that because there was a miss match, (assuming 2 good people but not right for each other) or you XW wasn't all that sexual, or as in so many relationships one person gets enough sex and becomes board / it ceases to turn them on? Of course kids, money and time together doing things they both enjoy play an important part in many marriages. Think about all of the people that think they are not good at sex. Then think about all of th people that think their spouse is not interested in sex. and lastly,think about the people that get their fill of sex and it becomes similar to eating the same peanut butter sandwich everyday for lunch. I have read women more than men need variety to stay sexually interested in a long term partner. Mrs Apocrypha was very eager to have all kinds of sex with me before we married. Her libido was healthy enough and at least normal. She chased me for several years. The sex took a first hit on the wedding day. In hindsight, I can see she was freaked about the marriage thing - when I consider that in context of the conversations we had then. Without bragging, I did what many or most of us did when the sex went off the menu. While I was likely a good lover to begin with (I've always been interested, open minded, present), I worked hard across years to expand my repertoire and techniques. I have had more than enough positive reviews from lovers since being married, and for a period in which I was in an open relationship with my then wife - to realize now - the problem wasn't that I wasn't good at sex or handsome enough. I bought the ever moving line of "kids, money, time" etc that she was selling, same as most of us here. Until I realized that I was in the same marriage as her and also having to contend with all of those things. Same with "eating the same peanut butter sandwich" - I was in the SAME MARRIAGE - and I was still into her. I don't understand why I didn't see that then. During the desert of our lonely imposed celibacy, her lack of libido didn't stop her from having an affair with a weird little man who she worked with. During our open relationship, she seemed to like it enough with her lovers and made THAT a priority. The whole time, she was riffing on some "I just don't feel sexual" schpiel, which I think she kind of believed, or wanted to, despite all evidence. No, the issue wasn't that. It was that she didn't want to be married to me, or at all. No amount of self-improvement or easing of her portion of household management and adult responsibilities would have ever worked. The common denominator, tested every which way - was ME. And since then, she's - to my knowledge - moved very quickly and robustly into a sex life with her various boyfriends and long term boyfriend.
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Post by Handy on Oct 21, 2019 18:55:31 GMT -5
Well, that certainly sheds more light on the "not with you" story.
I will say she is like other people that get turned on by "new" or newish partners. There are people that seem to need "new" to stay interested. New relationship energy is a common topic on an affair forum.
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