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Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 8, 2019 23:21:17 GMT -5
I'm sure many of us here believe that our spouses need counseling about sex in marriage. But do any of you have a spouse that is seriously messed up in the head about sex? Here's some examples.
My wife has told me before that she experienced sexual abuse as a child from a family member; not her parents. I've been understanding of that since I did as well but on a much less impactful level. She has mentioned this a couple times as the reason when she has not wanted sex. Although, when she wanted to get pregnant, she didn't seem to have a problem setting that road block aside. Her unwillingness to get help for something that is obviously breaking our marriage is the deal breaker for me and is why I will leave some day.
But here is where things are strange. She never wants to talk about sex, ever. I guess some are like that. She never wants to admit to me or herself whenever something I am doing feels good to her. She just lays there in silence. The last couple years of our somewhat sexual years (once every 1 to 3 months) she got to the point where she would not open her mouth when we kissed. Only pecks on the check. Even while in the middle of trying to have sex. If I tried to kiss passionately she would turn her head to avoid me. I asked her what was the problem but she would never give me an answer.
The most unusual thing was that she got to the point that she would only touch my cock if she was facing away from me. She would lay on her side and reach behind her back to rub my cock for me. I told her after awhile that I wanted to see her face when we made love but she just wouldn't do it. She could lay on her back or stomach if I was pleasuring her but she had to be facing away from me to touch me. It just felt like she was rejecting me even while we had sex or at least attempted sex.
I came out and told her that those things seemed strange. I asked her if she had been attacked or something recently since things seemed to be getting worse. She said no. I've asked her several times if she was gay and she says no. I told her I would rather know then her spare my feelings but it never changed her answer.
She has serious psychological issues about sex. She needs professional help but will never get it.
Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?
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Post by deadzone75 on Oct 8, 2019 23:42:01 GMT -5
Did your wife disclose her past trauma with you before or after your marriage? That type of trauma can be irreversible, and I would assume a victim must be ready and willing to talk to someone about it. They may never be willing to do so. Regardless, that situation is unfortunate.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 8, 2019 23:45:58 GMT -5
After our marriage. But it didn't seem to bother her in the early years. Also didn't seem to bother her when she wanted to get pregnant. I don't want to discount the impact of her abuse but I think she used it more as an excuse. When she was pregnant and the hormones were flowing, she really got in the mood there for a while. Seems like the abuse would have still been a problem then, but no. Hard to be understanding when its so inconsistent.
The last 5 years or so of us having some sexual contact is when things started getting weird. If something new happened to her, she would never admit to it. Maybe she just finally just turned completely off about sex. I'll never understand her.
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Post by deadzone75 on Oct 9, 2019 0:00:50 GMT -5
That's a tough situation. You could view it as she has just decided she no longer wants sex with you, or maybe the effect of trauma is worsening due to...any number of circumstances (triggers, wear and tear of the trauma itself). The bottom line is that your needs are not being met, but that's certainly a precarious situation.
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Post by Handy on Oct 9, 2019 0:10:30 GMT -5
ScottDinTN, your W is the only person that can fix this situation and i doubt she can do it by herself. I suspect it would take quite a while for to change anything and that is only is she has the right help for her situation. There has to be a client / therapist match-up for anything to work.
About the sex if wanting to get pregnant. Well even sex averse women know it takes sex to get pregnant and I suppose many think the hornier they are the better the pregnancy will be. After all why not go "whole hog" and make woop-ee so the kid turns out the healthiest that possibly can be.
In my marriage, making babies was the best sex I ever experienced. My W's attitude was "fuck me now and fuck me with all you have big boy, I want to get knocked up and do this thing the best that we can." It was like acting out to reach a goal and giving it all we had.
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Post by baza on Oct 9, 2019 0:39:14 GMT -5
You've covered a couple of "whys" there Brother ScottDinTN . Real (or imagined) recent sexual trauma. Her being gay. She says "none of the above" and instead offers up "past sexual trauma" It looks like a straight copy of Brother shamwow 's story (look it up, it's titled Tminus). In that case the past sexual trauma had scant evidence to back it up and actually looks like an outright fib. Not saying your missus is spinning you a line of bullshit, but that could be the case. Anyway, let's assume it is a genuine claim. The only person who can do anything about it is her, and there's not a real lot of evidence that she is doing anything about that, or even wants to. Whether this situation is down to "recent sexual trauma" or "being gay" as you've speculated or "past sexual trauma" as she claims, your options don't alter. As far as your question - "Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?" - I would bet good money that strange avoidance techniques are in the vast majority within this group.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 9, 2019 1:00:06 GMT -5
I'm not trying to change her now. I've given up. The why no longer matters. I was just curious is any others had experienced any stranger than normal reactions to sex in their spouse. Maybe indicating psychological problems. Of course, in my mind, anyone that doesn't want to have orgasms is a little crazy. lol
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 9, 2019 11:32:40 GMT -5
Yes. These are familiar things.
My ex had sexual trauma in her past. We had a long period prior to marriage in which she pursued me sexually, and in which we enjoyed a robust sex life, dropping off when we got married - the day we got married, pregnancy, baby, and house - flatlined with the second pregnancy.
When we did have sex, she also preferred "low intimacy" or contact - often facing away. Eventually putting her arm literally over her eyes, and I finally called time mid-coitus when she put a pillow over her own face. Even if she initiated, she would generally do it this way. I had considered for a long time that maybe this was her "thing" and explored various BDSM ideas to show I was game for whatever she needed- blindfolds etc. These were not well received and ended up painting me with perversity in her eyes.
Later, in therapy - like years later - she said that she had been "dissociating" during sex. This is a trauma response in which abuse victims "go outside their body" when the trauma is happening. THis would happen in sex that she initiated with me, btw. If she was facing away from me (as often was the case), it was harder for me to see, and to differentiate her response from regular lack of interest or laziness or sleepiness. Increasingly, her lack of being "present" became apparent to me as not being due to sleepiness.
At some point, a few years in - her resentment flared - and her resentment and contempt was revealed for my participating in the bad sex that she initiated. She externalized/projected her own contempt of me, assuming somehow that I hated her - and instead posed these few sexual interactions with her (that she initiated) as me treating her as a "meatbag", as she was making it clear to me that she didn't want to participate (in her mind, through the way she was having the sex that she occasionally initiated). She said it was like I was "raping her".
That language did not sit well. I brought it up in counselling the next week - the way she had posed it.
The counselor - usually someone who never posed any direct action - reacted strongly to it, and recommended we split. He said he's seen this many times, and it's almost never recoverable in a relationship. Noting: no rape or assault was happening in the marriage. No sex was happening that she did not initiate. The sex that we had, such as it was, was conservative and hurried, and largely unsatisfying emotionally. The demands were very modest as these things go. And I'd never seen our psychiatrist react this way.
In hindsight, I can't believe how stupid I was in not seeing what was plainly there. Yes, she had trauma, that's true. And I believe that she was dissociating, because she was initiating sex that she did not want to have with a person she didn't want to have it with. She then blamed me for having sex with her, in which she dissociated from it - and characterized it as being like a rape, knowing full well the weight that accusation would have.
So. Two things can be true at the same time. 1. Your wife may have had trauma. 2. That may have nothing to do with her aversion to you as a sexual partner. As I found with my wife, she had little problem having sex with the people she wanted it with. I was not one of those people. So her response to that was as if to trauma. And having sex with someone you don't want, to a trauma survivor, is likely a traumatic experience.
Your description sounds kind of similar. She will still blame you even if she initiates or acquiesces to sex with you. You will stand in as the one who traumatizes her. You don't want to play that role for her. You don't want to let her put you in that role. There is no way to "treat this carefully" and show her what a positive sexual experience can be. She can't have that with someone she doesn't want. Maybe someone else can if she wants them, maybe not. Medicalizing this as mental illness, or like an accident happening to her, or to both of you as a couple, likely isn't going to help. It sets an ethical narrative in which your response must be celibate and you suffer together. But it needn't. If my experience is similar to yours - the best way for her to have a satisfying sex life as well as you - is for you both to have sex with people you actually want, and to avoid it with people if there isn't a mutual interest.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 12:39:26 GMT -5
You've covered a couple of "whys" there Brother ScottDinTN . Real (or imagined) recent sexual trauma. Her being gay. She says "none of the above" and instead offers up "past sexual trauma" It looks like a straight copy of Brother shamwow 's story (look it up, it's titled Tminus). In that case the past sexual trauma had scant evidence to back it up and actually looks like an outright fib. Not saying your missus is spinning you a line of bullshit, but that could be the case. Anyway, let's assume it is a genuine claim. The only person who can do anything about it is her, and there's not a real lot of evidence that she is doing anything about that, or even wants to. Whether this situation is down to "recent sexual trauma" or "being gay" as you've speculated or "past sexual trauma" as she claims, your options don't alter. As far as your question - "Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?" - I would bet good money that strange avoidance techniques are in the vast majority within this group. Refusers are masters of avoidance, whatever the reason. "Past sexual trauma", in my humble opinion, can also mean that they consider intimacy and sex to be traumatic. Therefore, all past sexual experiences are "past sexual trauma".
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 9, 2019 12:48:41 GMT -5
You've covered a couple of "whys" there Brother ScottDinTN . Real (or imagined) recent sexual trauma. Her being gay. She says "none of the above" and instead offers up "past sexual trauma" It looks like a straight copy of Brother shamwow 's story (look it up, it's titled Tminus). In that case the past sexual trauma had scant evidence to back it up and actually looks like an outright fib. Not saying your missus is spinning you a line of bullshit, but that could be the case. Anyway, let's assume it is a genuine claim. The only person who can do anything about it is her, and there's not a real lot of evidence that she is doing anything about that, or even wants to. Whether this situation is down to "recent sexual trauma" or "being gay" as you've speculated or "past sexual trauma" as she claims, your options don't alter. As far as your question - "Anyone else see strange things like these that go beyond disinterest?" - I would bet good money that strange avoidance techniques are in the vast majority within this group. Refusers are masters of avoidance, whatever the reason. "Past sexual trauma", in my humble opinion, can also mean that they consider intimacy and sex to be traumatic. Therefore, all past sexual experiences are "past sexual trauma". Here is a thought: Intimacy and sex IS traumatic for them because they have to submit. Submit means GIVING you a certain amount of CONTROL. Even the tiniest of voice, or period of time, is too risky for them. Next time you will want more than just the "few crumbs" they give you. That is unacceptable in their behavior to have things their way, and their way ONLY!
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 9, 2019 13:31:54 GMT -5
Refusers are masters of avoidance, whatever the reason. "Past sexual trauma", in my humble opinion, can also mean that they consider intimacy and sex to be traumatic. Therefore, all past sexual experiences are "past sexual trauma". Here is a thought: Intimacy and sex IS traumatic for them because they have to submit. Submit means GIVING you a certain amount of CONTROL. Even the tiniest of voice, or period of time, is too risky for them. Next time you will want more than just the "few crumbs" they give you. That is unacceptable in their behavior to have things their way, and their way ONLY! I have to say, with a fair amount of experience in dating women, post-marriage, with a story that resembles this, I don't think that defining "refusers" by this trait - as a trait they carry within themselves irrespective of their partner - is all that accurate or helpful. I think people think about it backwards. The general gist is to define the refuser as a control freak, or that they consider all intimacy or sex as traumatic - to medicalize it somehow. Like getting cancer. Then you as the unwillingly celibate partner in the marriage has a good excuse to keep "why" chasing and finding the cure for them. I think that it's likely more effective to frame it as aspect of the specific relationship to their partner, rather than as a trait they carry themselves.
It's one of the most common intimate get-to-know you stories that I've heard, where someone thought she hated sex, and experienced it traumatically, but then realized they actually liked it - with me. It's not like I'm super-Cassanova either - as far as I know - I'm not doing anything now that I didn't do with my wife who didn't want sex with me. If you don't love or love ( that way), the person you are having sex with, it will feel like trauma. If you have to do it or risk losing your family, house etc - it will BE trauma. If you only have sex, or avoid sex, with that one person, then it will feel like that's how you feel about sex in general. If you don't want someone that way, no amount of sex with them can be too little. It will feel disempowering, disgusting, brutal, a terrible and unwanted intimacy. It drains their buckets, rather than filling.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Oct 9, 2019 19:49:09 GMT -5
I think those that have trama in their past often fool themselves. They initiate sex because they feel bad for neglecting their spouse. But once they get into it, they remember why they avoided it to start with. I don't necessarily blame my wife for the way she feels during sex considering her past. But her refusal to get any help is unacceptable and that is why I will be leaving some day.
Since I cut her off and said we will no longer have sex again, it has made things easier. The rejection hurts far more than not having sex. And I will never be rejected by her again. It may seem weird but there is a feeling of power in that. Some day I will be with a woman that wants my touch.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 9, 2019 20:35:00 GMT -5
I'm not trying to change her now. I've given up. The why no longer matters. I was just curious is any others had experienced any stranger than normal reactions to sex in their spouse. Maybe indicating psychological problems. Of course, in my mind, anyone that doesn't want to have orgasms is a little crazy. lol Hi! I can relate ,on many levels with your experiences. My ex had trauma from her brother. She claimed " he touched me (tickled) me so much when I was a kid that I am no longer ticklish at all, anywhere." Then there's her experience in H.S. No boys interested in her physically, along with her taking the wrought of being a computer geek (straight A's at everything) Early on in the marriage she was against kissing. (French kissing-later leading to a worthless peck) She would ask for a backrub. This meant no return of any kind, and her falling asleep. The sex I recieved,(hand stimulation ) became once a year. Like your story, she was "ready to go" ( initiating and enjoying sex) to get pregnant. (I have read where this is labeled Greysexual) Years later (our kids were teenagers) during marriage counseling my ex was asked about sex and intimacy with her spouse. Her answer was a "tipping point". She said, " I don't see the need for it, It's not important to me, It really doesn't matter. I can take it or leave it." She was excellent at saying such things with a calm, rational behavior, like "Isn't everyone like that? on to the next topic". I later discovered more and more about her narcissism ( a psychological problem) and my own codependency. Especially the term DARVO. THIS helped me to understand the "WHY" and to overcome the FOG. (Fear Obligation, and Guilt.) Along with this came, the realization that her mother is also a narcissist, and her father was codependent. ( The apple doesn't fall far from the tree) I hope you will continue to "heal thyself, and to thine own self be true"., by finding a good support network. Divorce recovery classes are a good start. Leading to my divorce, and a "new beginning" for me.
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Post by notdeadyet on Oct 12, 2019 16:07:51 GMT -5
Just read an interesting article entititled "Oxytocin increases fidelity in monogamous men!" Upshot is that Oxytocin, sometimes referred to as the "LOve Hormone" is released during sex. It may make women "fall in love" but it makes men "Stay in love." I.e. without regular infusions of the hormone (resulting from sex) Men will tend to "drift away" from the relationship. Another scientific reason why lack of sex destroys marriages.
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Post by southerngirl on Oct 12, 2019 17:48:11 GMT -5
Yep. There are all kinds of psychological problems, not just about sex. But they definitely effected the sex life. After a while it didn't matter what the reasons were, rejection was still rejection. Funny how I ended up being the one thinking I was crazy one. Ha.
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