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Post by jim44444 on Sept 22, 2019 10:23:18 GMT -5
sunnysean , your may be intimacy adverse but in this case she is spot on. It may have felt good to be touched but it takes training and experience to be a massage therapist. In Ohio they are liscensed as a medical practitioner with education, testing and continuing education requirements. They are knowledgeable about muscle and bone structures and pressure points. Your W or Oriental relaxation spa does not have this knowledge. A good massage therapist is worth whatever they charge. Go and do not worry about arousal, if it happens then ignore it. baza said But she could look you in the eye someday and state that she found her soulmate and is leaving you. We the refused tend to assume that our spouses are totally devoid of sexual feelings because it soothes our egos. If they have feelings for someone else then we must be defective. We must each approach our relationships from our needs and desires. We should not make assumptions our spouses desires beyond their interactions with us. Apocrypha said it best My bottom line take on your post is to go to the massage therapist. If you are not comfortable with her then find a different one, maybe a male.
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Post by Handy on Sept 22, 2019 10:40:55 GMT -5
I think some movies give the idea that "happy endings" are why men go to massage places.
If I had my wishes concerning "happy endings" the would be with an exclusive partner where mutual respect and pleasures were exchanged. In other words a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. Maybe I am not good with getting, without giving something back.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 22, 2019 14:57:30 GMT -5
I’ve seen more movies showing male athletes getting sports massages (typically from men who seem to be trainers) than I’ve seen movies showing men getting happy ending massages.
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Post by Handy on Sept 22, 2019 16:39:23 GMT -5
I suppose sports massages are less like to create an impression than "happy endings" maybe that is why it stuck with me.
sunnysean After she was done, she said, "This is not really my thing, and I don't think I'm good at it. I'll pay for it if you want to go to a massage therapist."
My W couldn't put enough pressure on me to rub out a tight muscle so I wouldn't expect much from her. I suspect Sunny's W is similar to mine.
25 years ago I was working on the county prosecutor's car and a known pimps car. I asked the prosecutor how she felt about the legal hoops she had to go through to make a case stick on the pimp. She said it has to go by the laws and book, other wise it wouldn't stick and she was just wasting her time and county funds.
Me, I really resented working on the pimp's car but the shop owner mostly saw the potential profit and his cut of the monthly shop income.
We used to have street hookers but the vice squad got most of the hookers off the street. Then the massage places showed up and women from out of town took over along with their madams/pimps. Occasionally they get busted. Some go out of business but new places always pop up.
OTH there is a massage school and several legitimate massage therapist. Some even go to malls and setup 10 or 15 minuet stations for a small fee to introduce their services.
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sunnysean
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Age Range: 41-45
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Post by sunnysean on Sept 24, 2019 12:49:01 GMT -5
UPDATE: OK, I went and did it. I took my wife up on the offer and went to get my first professional massage. The therapist was young and attractive and I was very nervous. Truth be told I have not been touched by another woman, or man for that matter, than my wife since we started dating, beyond a handshake and a hug. She talked to me about my problem (Honestly my shoulder was already better from time, but still a little off). She said she could work on that, or that and my whole body. My wife had setup a whole hour and she felt we had enough time to do either or or both. I told her I just wanted to work on my shoulder issue and she said she would work on that and my neck/upper back, starting with Swedish, move to deep tissue, and finish with more Swedish. She told me she would leave the room so I could get comfortable and I needed to take my shirt off and lay on the massage table with my face down on this table with this little pillow with a hole. The room seemed like a Dr's office room but the lighting was dimmable and there was some yoga sounding music. She came back in, and gave me the play by play, meaning she told me what she was about to do. She told me a lot of her male clients like some peppermint massage oil and she gave me a couple of other options. I chose the peppermint. Oh!, OUCH! and Oh! It felt really good. Confusing waves of joy, pleasure, and fear seem to radiate. And, just FYI I did not get an erection, thank goodness! Ouch though, the deep tissue was very painful, she told me it might be uncomfortable, but I would like the results. It hurt. She finished the session moving back to the Swedish stuff. It did not feel like an hour, but it was. When I left I felt in a daze. Kinda like i had had a glass of wine or just woke up from a deep nap. Honestly, I am very confused about the whole experience. It felt amazing. It was as gratifying, if not more so, then the last time my wife and I had sex. Because of that, I felt like I did something wrong. The therapist was totally professional and it was like a visit to the doctors office. At no point was it an outwardly sexual experience, but it felt like one to me internally. That upsets me. I don't want to think I used the therapist and I don't want to think I was betraying my wife by getting sexual satisfaction from another person. I have a strange since of guilt and satisfaction all at the same time. I told my wife about the experience and she seemed pleased (I left out the part about the guilt and that it was better than the last time we had had sex). She even gave me a kiss that included a little, out of the norm, butt grope and told me to let her know if I wanted to do it again and she would make it happen. Today my shoulder feels pretty good. My mental state is a little off. I don't know if I want to do it again.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 24, 2019 13:07:38 GMT -5
Congrats, sunnysean. You just had your first legitimate professional massage. It's not designed to be a sexual experience, but a therapeutic one, both physically and emotionally. If I somehow became rich, I would have a therapeutic massage every day. To me it is not sexual, but just heavenly. True sometimes one might have sexual thoughts during a massage, but I've never gotten turned on. I'd be more likely to fall asleep than to get turned on during a massage, but I try not to. I don't want to fall asleep when I'm paying money for something that feels so good. 😁 Yes, sometimes they can be slightly painful during, but afterward, you will feel much better. I will say that if the entire massage feels painful I recommend asking the masseuse to lighten up a bit.
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Post by flashjohn on Sept 24, 2019 14:45:53 GMT -5
I told my wife about the experience and she seemed pleased (I left out the part about the guilt and that it was better than the last time we had had sex). She even gave me a kiss that included a little, out of the norm, butt grope and told me to let her know if I wanted to do it again and she would make it happen. Today my shoulder feels pretty good. My mental state is a little off. I don't know if I want to do it again. Well, maybe she is glad that you seemed satisfied and she didn't have to bother with touching you herself. It is very telling that she doesn't have any desire to do this herself, but that is very common with refusers. I still contend that she has just lost attraction for you, but doesn't want to admit it.
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Post by jim44444 on Sept 24, 2019 15:45:58 GMT -5
sunnysean, your reaction to the massage is what is to be expected. You are over thinking the sexual part, just relax into the moment. You should take up your W's offer for another session. Next time go not to fix a problem but just for the joy of a good massage. Get the whole body treatment, words cannot describe having someone massage your feet. Also, massage is great after a heavy sporting activity. I go on organized multi-day bike rides and they usually have a massage tent. It feels so good after a 60+ mile ride.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 17:24:29 GMT -5
I told my wife about the experience and she seemed pleased (I left out the part about the guilt and that it was better than the last time we had had sex). She even gave me a kiss that included a little, out of the norm, butt grope and told me to let her know if I wanted to do it again and she would make it happen. Today my shoulder feels pretty good. My mental state is a little off. I don't know if I want to do it again. Well, maybe she is glad that you seemed satisfied and she didn't have to bother with touching you herself. It is very telling that she doesn't have any desire to do this herself, but that is very common with refusers. I still contend that she has just lost attraction for you, but doesn't want to admit it. Exactly, her outsourcing of touching was successful.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 24, 2019 17:47:21 GMT -5
When I was in my SM I decided that since my husband wouldn’t touch me, I deserved for him to pay for me to get a weekly massage or facial. That was some 12 years ago. I’ve now been divorced 6 years and in a sexually and emotionally fulfilled relationship. Both my partner and I enjoy (nonsexual) professional massages about once a month. We also enjoy frequent lovemaking. Massages including non sexual professional ones are heavenly if one enjoys touch.
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Post by baza on Sept 24, 2019 19:17:59 GMT -5
Brother sunnysean . It is interesting to see the level of enthusiasm and detail present in your update re the massage. This level of enthusiasm / passion is rarely evident when you write about your ILIASM deal.
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Post by workingonit on Sept 24, 2019 21:04:37 GMT -5
sunnysean I used to get regular massages from both men and women in order to fulfill my need for touch. H never asked why I would go or care at all. It was never sexual but there is something in me that simply needs to be touched. I always feel more satisfied after a massage. I recently decided I needed to do this again and want to get a massage twice a month for the next 4 months. Maybe you should make it a regular thing and see how that helps you?
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 1, 2019 11:56:57 GMT -5
It was as gratifying, if not more so, then the last time my wife and I had sex. Because of that, I felt like I did something wrong. The therapist was totally professional and it was like a visit to the doctors office. At no point was it an outwardly sexual experience, but it felt like one to me internally. That upsets me. I don't want to think I used the therapist and I don't want to think I was betraying my wife Two points in the above passage jump out at me: 1. That though you really want to have sex (a normal and healthy desire), and you have actually HAD sex with your wife, this intimate non-sexual touch was more gratifying. Not more pleasurable, physically - but more gratifying. Why do you think that is? Is it because in this case, it was clear that you and your masseur wanted to proceed with the interaction, whereas it was clear to you that your wife did not? 2. What - really specifically - would be the betrayal? What is the nature of the commitment or agreement you feel you are betraying? Was your explicit agreement at your wedding intended to be a mutual commitment to celibacy? If that was not what either of you intended or would have chosen, then what is the nature of the violation? I'm not suggesting there isn't a violation. Rather - I'm suggesting that maybe you want to consider the specific nature of your tacit agreement with your wife. In other words, use the feeling of malfeasance from this therapeutic interaction to better understand true nature of what you and wife appear to be committed to. Monogamy implies a sexual relationship, and that is not what you have, so you must be violating something else.
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sunnysean
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Post by sunnysean on Oct 3, 2019 9:35:34 GMT -5
"Why do you think that is? Is it because in this case, it was clear that you and your masseur wanted to proceed with the interaction, whereas it was clear to you that your wife did not? "
The therapist was all in, everyone was on the same page with the interaction. She made me comfortable.
The last time we had sex, my wife did seem to want it, but the "shot clock" was on in full swing. We didn't spend much time with foreplay as she wanted to get on to the main event. After she finished she started the whole: Are you about done...then the every guilt trip. Do you not find me attractive. Please keep in mind this is about 5 min into intercourse. For 20 years I do everything I can to speed up my finish once intercourse starts. So... I think you are right. We didn't want the same thing at all. I get so stressed out about having to finish quickly. Ive talked about it with her. I've told her that the more foreplay we do the faster I'll be at the main event. I've even said that when you ask me to hurry up that doesn't help, it slows it down.
"If that was not what either of you intended or would have chosen, then what is the nature of the violation?"
While the massage was intended to be non-sexual, and it had no sexual overtones, it was pleasurable touching administered by another woman. I have some perverse since of guilt because It was very satisfying. I enjoyed it more that the sexual activity I do get to have on rare occasions. So really, logically, no violation.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 3, 2019 11:00:08 GMT -5
The last time we had sex, my wife did seem to want it, but the "shot clock" was on in full swing. We didn't spend much time with foreplay as she wanted to get on to the main event. After she finished she started the whole: Are you about done...then the every guilt trip. Do you not find me attractive. Please keep in mind this is about 5 min into intercourse. For 20 years I do everything I can to speed up my finish once intercourse starts. So... I think you are right. We didn't want the same thing at all. I get so stressed out about having to finish quickly. Ive talked about it with her. I've told her that the more foreplay we do the faster I'll be at the main event. I've even said that when you ask me to hurry up that doesn't help, it slows it down. "If that was not what either of you intended or would have chosen, then what is the nature of the violation?" While the massage was intended to be non-sexual, and it had no sexual overtones, it was pleasurable touching administered by another woman. I have some perverse since of guilt because It was very satisfying. I enjoyed it more that the sexual activity I do get to have on rare occasions. So really, logically, no violation. What I'm reading here is a violation of your own tacit agreement to your wife's agenda. It's interesting the "my wife did seem to want it" - occasionally my own wife did too (and much more so with her affair partner, or even comparable strangers than me). But at times she did want sex urgently- and none of it really fit with our "cold fish" narrative. I kept on, for the longest time - trying to decipher her cycles with this and comparing what I did - or what the environment was like and whatever - as if there was some formula to her sexuality that I had lost and needed to crack. As a single, dating man - new in the dating world though - I came to a new realization. Sometimes - not always often - men and women just get horny. It's likely pretty normal. And they go with who's there. I've seen a few women (and this isn't gender specific - I'm just talking about what I've seen - I've seen some men do this as a strategy). I have felt horny and made a booty call to someone who wasn't right for me and who I'd likely not be all that attracted to normally - maybe better friends. Or, more accurately - I've said "yes" or "why not?" when I was horny. We often get stuck in this cold fish narrative and ignore the data points that suggest otherwise. The most likely explanation isn't cold fish, but rather a fundamental disconnection and consideration of a specific person as a sexual partner. And this explains so much. Like, why the urgency and needing to want it, but at the same time, cutting it short or putting parameters all around it that indicate there's no joy in pleasuring YOU. Cutting short is about disgust, not indifference. If you are like me, on those rare opportunities where it seems like the window is open, you want to make the best of it and prolong it - show her what she's been missing - make her realize. But, she's probably ok with sex. They almost always are. It isn't sex. It's the way she feels about you. And it takes longer when she asks you to wrap it up because you KNOW. You know intuitively - the sex is there and happening - and with the person you want it with - but the sex kills you because you know it's not the person SHE wants it with. And that's why, once she's attended to what she needed to establish - it can't be over soon enough. For your part, you are now fully invested in assisting her with that. Like "leave no trace" camping - over and done as fast and clean as you can, so as to minimize your detrimental impact on her. You wrap it up as fast as you can, you tell her she's not enabling the fast finish she wants, and you have internalized it to such a degree that you feel guilty even when you feel pleasure on your own. Celibate marriages tend to make people thinking strange things. Dark things. For quite a long time, you know, I had come to hate my own sexuality. I'd portrayed it as some kind of depraved thing that was harming my family and marriage. I thought myself disgusting. I'm much better now - though there's been lingering damage. My present gf, a lovely and stunningly beautiful, successful woman - has noted that I almost never initiate sex myself - and wondered what that's about. I'm working on that as my next self-improvement. Don't let it go on too long, is what I'm saying.
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