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Post by smith227 on Sept 15, 2019 20:29:17 GMT -5
I don’t know how many of you are familiar with actual Narcissist Personality Disorder, but you might look into it. I think a lot of people think they’re dealing with someone who doesn’t like sex, when in reality it might just be someone who is just completely empty and drains you for fuel. Soooooooo thankful for my therapist.
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Post by baza on Sept 15, 2019 22:09:16 GMT -5
You're out of your ILIASM deal aren't you Sister smith227 ? It is not unusual - once you've been out for a while - to get a bit of clarity about your ILIASM deal and your spouse. You tend to be able to be a bit more objective about it, and can see things as they really were once you are not in that environment.
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Post by smith227 on Sept 16, 2019 5:55:00 GMT -5
You're out of your ILIASM deal aren't you Sister smith227 ? It is not unusual - once you've been out for a while - to get a bit of clarity about your ILIASM deal and your spouse. You tend to be able to be a bit more objective about it, and can see things as they really were once you are not in that environment. Yes, I’m out and no contact. It’s wonderful.
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endthegame
Junior Member
Posts: 96
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Sept 16, 2019 7:38:36 GMT -5
I know several people on here, or maybe more than several thinking about it, who have / had personality disordered partners.
It's more common than uncommon.
It's worth reading the shrinkformen website regards this.
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Post by elkclan2 on Sept 16, 2019 12:50:32 GMT -5
My mother is - I'm 99% sure - NPD. Both of her marriages were sexless. She is unable to get joy from giving. And probably once the initial phase of limerence is over people like that just go down to their normal libido level and enjoy seeing you beg them for attention more than they enjoy the physical act of intimacy.
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Post by flashjohn on Sept 16, 2019 13:51:58 GMT -5
My mother is - I'm 99% sure - NPD. Both of her marriages were sexless. She is unable to get joy from giving. And probably once the initial phase of limerence is over people like that just go down to their normal libido level and enjoy seeing you beg them for attention more than they enjoy the physical act of intimacy. You just described my ExRefuser perfectly. My therapist told me that a woman like this gets more pleasure from denying sex than from an orgasm.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 16, 2019 15:55:30 GMT -5
Sometimes, when I find I need to work with this person who is now extended family, I find that to stay positive about it, I need to be empathetic. I sometimes need to account to myself or to others - because it reflects poorly on me that I endured what I did. So, I try this thought on for size: "Imagine you are married to someone who you don't want to be married to. Imagine how trapped that must feel, forever and ever. Across the span of a decade, how might that affect your behaviour? What toll would that take on your sanity, your kindness?"
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Post by whuffo on Sept 16, 2019 16:03:12 GMT -5
If you look into NPD, you might very well put a picture of your refuser in its place a lot of times. I know as soon as I did it was very easy to see narcissistic traits in my W. The shrink for men website is very enlightening about it, and it’s by a woman, so it’s hard for dissenters to jump on the woman-hater bandwagon, as you see in the comments of some of the websites. A more surprising trait to look into is psychopathy. While hearing that word makes you think cold-blooded killers, there’s a range to it, like other disorders. A very good friend and confidant of mine who is in the medical field turned me in to that potential and upon reading more I can see some traits as well from that. Again, very enlightening. Your spouse may or may not have those traits, but as I looked into it, I could see a blending of several things. And the problem with people with these issues, they’ll be the last ones to actually allow themselves to be diagnosed, either through a lot of FOG and DARVO.
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Post by baza on Sept 16, 2019 18:26:05 GMT -5
The thing is, that what we are dealing with in our respective ILIASM deals, is that our respective spouses are exhibiting behaviours that make them unsuitable life partners for us.
That could be because they are narcissists. It could be some other mental issue, diagnosed or undiagnosed. Could be past trauma. Might be that they are just a shit of a person. Possibly sexually anorexic, or any other of the "labels" we see bandied about.
The specific "why" doesn't matter a real lot.
Your options in the face of the rejective behaviour don't change.
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Post by whuffo on Sept 16, 2019 20:12:37 GMT -5
The thing is, that what we are dealing with in our respective ILIASM deals, is that our respective spouses are exhibiting behaviours that make them unsuitable life partners for us. That could be because they are narcissists. It could be some other mental issue, diagnosed or undiagnosed. Could be past trauma. Might be that they are just a shit of a person. Possibly sexually anorexic, or any other of the "labels" we see bandied about. The specific "why" doesn't matter a real lot. Your options in the face of the rejective behaviour don't change. While the “why” does not matter, it certainly gives some people a reason to stop why chasing... I wasn’t why chasing as much as I was trying to find out what I had to protect myself and kids against. And that is a good reason to me to dig deep.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 16, 2019 20:29:56 GMT -5
My mother is - I'm 99% sure - NPD. Both of her marriages were sexless. She is unable to get joy from giving. And probably once the initial phase of limerence is over people like that just go down to their normal libido level and enjoy seeing you beg them for attention more than they enjoy the physical act of intimacy. You just described my ExRefuser perfectly. My therapist told me that a woman like this gets more pleasure from denying sex than from an orgasm. That is a frighteningly brilliant analysis of why some refusers refuse. They get off on controlling other people by hurting them.
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Post by elkclan2 on Sept 17, 2019 2:46:51 GMT -5
When you're dealing with personality disorders - like NPD, BPD, etc - or even hard wired personality facets like being asexual - why chasing can be super important. It tells you it's not fixable - certainly not by you and not by the other person either. It will also indicate what kind of divorce experience you're gonna have. It's just sometimes hard to get out of the why-chasing phase and onto the decision-making phase.
Divorce is expensive, painful and upsetting - especially if you have children. It has to be worth it. So a period of reflection - why-chasing if you will - is reasonable.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 17, 2019 13:23:53 GMT -5
You just described my ExRefuser perfectly. My therapist told me that a woman like this gets more pleasure from denying sex than from an orgasm. That is a frighteningly brilliant analysis of why some refusers refuse. They get off on controlling other people by hurting them. They certainly get more satisfaction out of that than from having sex with a person they don't want to have sex with. Even moreso, if they have come to feel angry. Change the partner or the circumstance to someone they want to have sex with, and suddenly they are the kind of person who is "into sex" again. While it's certainly possible they enjoy tormenting in this manner, I think the more general and "human" advice would be to recognize that they too, are trapped in an unsatisfying sexual relationship, and that their efforts at control are aimed at limiting or diminishing the amount they need to bear having sex with a person they don't want that way, in order to save the positive lifestyle benefits that come with it.
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Post by jenshella on Sept 18, 2019 0:02:21 GMT -5
That is a frighteningly brilliant analysis of why some refusers refuse. They get off on controlling other people by hurting them. They certainly get more satisfaction out of that than from having sex with a person they don't want to have sex with. Even moreso, if they have come to feel angry. Change the partner or the circumstance to someone they want to have sex with, and suddenly they are the kind of person who is "into sex" again. While it's certainly possible they enjoy tormenting in this manner, I think the more general and "human" advice would be to recognize that they too, are trapped in an unsatisfying sexual relationship, and that their efforts at control are aimed at limiting or diminishing the amount they need to bear having sex with a person they don't want that way, in order to save the positive lifestyle benefits that come with it. Thank you for this. Gives me hope for humankind. I’m sure there are evil people out there who are enjoying themselves by tormenting their partners, getting off on being mean..... However I think those are in small numbers and your answer is probably way better for the vast majority.
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 18, 2019 16:04:45 GMT -5
When you're dealing with personality disorders - like NPD, BPD, etc - or even hard wired personality facets like being asexual - why chasing can be super important. It tells you it's not fixable - certainly not by you and not by the other person either. It will also indicate what kind of divorce experience you're gonna have. It's just sometimes hard to get out of the why-chasing phase and onto the decision-making phase. Divorce is expensive, painful and upsetting - especially if you have children. It has to be worth it. So a period of reflection - why-chasing if you will - is reasonable. On w hy chasing... I get it - I was in it as well, for years. I'm not certain that the why chasing ends up being all that reasonable in most cases, though it is understandable. Consider: a person is averse to intimacy with their partner for [reasons]. They may be aware of those reasons and not saying. They may not be aware of those reasons. But after and throughout a long period in which the problem is perceived, and then raised, and escalated to the point of threatening the marriage and household - it's the jilted partner who ends up driving the why question, and not so much the person who is intimacy averse. "Reasonable" suggests to me that the person whose behaviour is incompatible with a married relationship is the one who likely should likely take on the responsibility of chasing the why. They have the accountability and also the capacity to answer it, to the extent that it can be answered. But, instead, the person who has been abandoned is the one who does it. How successful can they be in uncovering the motivations of someone else's aversion? In the end, once out of it, the real story may coalesce. Or in its absence, you will construct a narrative that suits well enough. In no way, will knowing "the reason" make the separation (kids or not) any easier. In the end, you can't make someone want you. If marriage is a priority AND they have a capacity and willingness to take accountability for contributing to the solution - then you might be able to explore it with a hope of success. But that's generally not the way it goes down.
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