|
Post by iceman on May 13, 2019 15:32:42 GMT -5
I’m curious. When you made the decision to actually leave and divorce your spouse was it a ‘big bang’ realization, a moment of clarity when it was absolutely clear what you needed to do or was it a decision where proceeding forward was more a statement of hope that your doing the right thing but with a good deal of doubt that you might be fucking up your life in monumental fashion?
I find myself in the latter situation. I have moments when I feel certain of the path I must take but within a few hours or a day doubts start creeping in. I have a plan. I’m waiting for my daughter to graduate from high school next month before pulling the trigger. I dont want the ensuing turmoil to affect her final days of schoolwork nor make her graduation an awkward affair with warring parents overshadowing what should be a very happy time for her.
The last time I wrote I was going to see a lawyer to find out just how financially painful a divorce would be for me. It was about what I thought. My state is pretty squishy about such matters but his best guess was that I’ll be on the hook to provide her with about $3500/month until I retire. Painful but doable. I feel like I’m moving forward but I lose momentum. I start thinking about how much easier it would be to stay. How much better off I’ll be financially. How I won’t have to tell the kids. How at least I would have a companion to go thru life with even though our relationship is utterly unsatisfying. There’s no guarantee that I’ll be able to find somebody new. What if my cancer comes back and i m all alone? And then my resolve sets in again and I feel like I’m getting back on the right track. Sort of a two steps forward and one step back scenario.
I want to have that moment of clarity but it’s nowhere to be found. Is this normal?
|
|
|
Post by sadkat on May 13, 2019 16:51:37 GMT -5
iceman: I think what you’re going through is normal. I also have moments of doubt but it’s mostly due to panic about what to expect post divorce. I’d been mulling my unsatisfactory marriage and the choice to stay or leave for a very long time. My moment of clarity came when I had an emotional breakdown last summer. Since then, I’ve been pretty resolute about leaving. The best thing I did was see a therapist to help me through the process. I definitely needed to be stronger in order to convince my husband that our marriage was over. When I get those moments of panic, I remind myself of how far I’ve come, the exciting plans I’ve made for myself, and that I don’t want to look back on my life with regret. If you have not started the conversation with your wife, I’ll warn you that your moments of doubt will likely increase. Have you taken the opportunity to discuss your decision with a therapist? Even a few sessions can prove helpful in coming to terms with your decision.
|
|
|
Post by isthisit on May 13, 2019 17:29:38 GMT -5
My experience is almost exactly as sadkat describes. I knew that I wanted to exit my M for a few years now but was staying for the benefit of others, with a fair bit of inappropriate hope and cowardice too I think. My motivation to ‘do’ rather than ‘wish for change’ was through the support of a counsellor, and the wider ILIASM community wisdom, support from an amazing friend and also from a very unexpected source indeed. My path crossed with a very sick child with a horrible life limiting condition who reminded me that time was precious (I was wasting mine being intentionally unhappy) and what courage was. On reflection this encounter unexpectedly proved to be a key tipping point for me. It simply and sub consciously pushed me over the edge to act, do, make it happen. It’s still pretty rubbish right now, but I have never doubted myself for one second. And it’s not as rubbish as feeling hopelessly trapped in an empty marriage was. I am uncertain about the future for sure, but the unknown can be exciting and liberating as much as anxiety inducing. I have quiet confidence in myself, I’ve got this. And it is still not in the top three worst times I have gotten through in my life. Every situation is different, and you may know when your tipping point comes and act on instinct as I did. It’s not for everyone (I have controversially still not consulted with a lawyer, okay in my circs but possibly not for all) but for me I think it so the only way I could have brought myself to do it. Thus far, I don’t regret a thing. Good luck to you whichever route you choose.
|
|
spencer
Junior Member
I welcome chats - just message me
Posts: 50
|
Post by spencer on May 13, 2019 18:00:00 GMT -5
isthisit -I see it is that most people probably need something to tip them over to action. That was an interesting one thanks for sharing.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on May 13, 2019 18:33:48 GMT -5
iceman said: " I start thinking about how much easier it would be to stay. How much better off I’ll be financially. How I won’t have to tell the kids. How at least I would have a companion to go thru life with even though our relationship is utterly unsatisfying. There’s no guarantee that I’ll be able to find somebody new. What if my cancer comes back and i m all alone? And then my resolve sets in again and I feel like I’m getting back on the right track. Sort of a two steps forward and one step back scenario. "
Unlike most of the people here, I found EP when (ILIASM's predecessor) after I divorced my refuser whom I had been married for 34 years, the last 8 of which and at least 8 others were completely sexless. I ended up divorcing at age 61 after somehow managing to do accidentally what many here suggest: I got therapy to help me figure out my life (also had couples therapy, but quit that as my refuser came late to appointments and didn't bother to do the tasks the therapist requested).
As a result of the therapy, I developed platonic friendships independent of my husband and I also got involved without him in pleasurable activities such as volunteer work, involvement in the local arts scene, and getting involved in a spiritual path that I was attracted to (all of this comes under what people here describe as taking actions to shore up one's support system and taking actions to heal from one's SM). Financial considerations were what kept me married until by chance, I mentioned to a lawyer friend how miserable I was in my marriage and how I'd divorce if I didn't fear being penniless as a result. That's when I learned that I was in a community property state and due to my longterm marriage was entitled to 50% of our assets and debt as well as a portion of my ex's retirement funds (This is an example of why it's important to follow the advice frequently given here to talk to a lawyer as part of making plans to divorce. If I'd talked to a lawyer earlier, I'd have divorced years earlier).
As a result of all of this, by the time I hired a divorce lawyer I had no doubt that I wanted out even if I never found another romantic or sexual partner and even though I knew that my divorce would leave me in more modest circumstances, such as having to move out of my dream house in the most in-demand neighborhood in town. I preferred the idea of living alone and even dying without a romantic partner to remaining with a man who showed so little interest in my emotional wellbeing. Hell, I had friends I'd prefer over him to be with me in a medical or other crisis.
Back to you: You have to figure out whether the companionship and concern and other benefits you get from being with your wife outweigh the stress, depression, low self esteem, etc. of being with her. For me, when I decided to divorce, it was like a burden was lifted off my shoulders. I radiated so much joy that acquaintances asked me what was going on in my life that was causing me to be so happy! I have never regretted my divorce. Not one time. The only time I missed my ex was one time when I wished he were around to change a ceiling light bulb. Then, I remembered the stepladder and forgot all about my ex.
While I've now been for 6 years in a relationship with a wonderful man who's the love of my life, if I were single now, I'd still be happier than I was during the last years of my marriage. My refuser wasn't physically or verbally abusive. He made good money and was well respected in his profession. He was, however, detached from me emotionally and sexually. That was soul killing for me and made it well worth it for me to divorce him.
|
|
|
Post by baza on May 13, 2019 19:23:07 GMT -5
Brother iceman . I *knew* in about 2004 that my deal was a dead duck, and at that time I pretty much stopped my incessant "why chasing" and treated the marriage for what it was - essentially a Financial Partnership - and I was ok with that .... sort of !! By 2005 I was pretty sure that I was going to have to leave, at some point, but I didn't have the stomach for it at that time, it all looked "too hard" and the case to leave did not, at that time, appear to be in my longer term best interests. By 2006 (which turned out to be one of the worst and tumultuous years ever) the case to leave DID appear to be in my longer term best interests. I was about 55 then. But whereas the case to leave was pretty good, it wasn't good enough for me to action it. It still looked too hard. By 2007/8 I had seen a lawyer and done all the exit planning etc and had a theoretical plan to get out. I fucked about polishing the rough edges off my plan, refining it, fine tuning it etc. Essentially distracting myself from actioning the plan by concentrating on the finer detail of the plan. The case to leave by then was very strong that it was in my best longer term interests to get out. But short term, there was the monumental problem of the fight, ill will etc etc that was the big stumbling block. It was "easier" - short term - to stay, even though longer term it was NOT in my best interests to stay. Your post reads to me like you are currently in this same position. You know (or at least strongly suspect) that in the longer term of things, you'd be better off by leaving. But you also know that short term, such a move is likely to be ugly. Brother iceman, I think you have to keep doing the financial and emotional sums. Does the case to stay stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. Does the case to leave stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. It may take a while before the sums emerge with a pretty clear answer to that "what's in your longer term best interests" question. For me, 2009 proved pivotal. That's when the case to leave became overwhelmingly obvious. I left. Never regretted it, wish I'd done it earlier. But for me, getting from knowing my deal was a dead duck to actually getting out was a process measured in years rather than months.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on May 13, 2019 20:27:06 GMT -5
I have a plan. I’m waiting for my daughter to graduate from high school next month before pulling the trigger. I dont want the ensuing turmoil to affect her final days of schoolwork nor make her graduation an awkward affair with warring parents overshadowing what should be a very happy time for her. his best guess was that I’ll be on the hook to provide her with about $3500/month until I retire. Painful but doable. That's a good plan. I'll share my experience and you can see if it will apply to you. We told all of the children about the divorce on the night that I decided to start the divorce proceedings. it could have waited. The process took months. The months ended up being 18 months. it was nice to not have to hide it, yet at the same time, we were trying to keep everything 'like normal". Hindsight says it would have been better to have waited closer to the final ending. A lot of unneeded anger developed, and false information was planted as facts. You can also read how a 'divorce' affects adults, kids 18 and over. So be prepared for that as well. The hard part is not taking too much blame for it, and healing yourself. $3500 sounds about average. In my case it all came down to 'which judge you get'. Some judges are against alimony, while others are very giving of high amounts. Something to check with your attorney about, or other attorneys. We ended up with the ' judge who hates alimony', and my amount was reduced by 2/3 of what another judge would have awarded.
|
|
|
Post by workingonit on May 13, 2019 20:47:07 GMT -5
iceman I am going to echo what others have said that this sounds like a normal stage in the process. Few of us hit a moment and then act on it immediately. Sometimes our partners step in and change the trajectory (i.e. leave or initiate divorce). Other than that I think what you are talking about- the SM divorce shuffle if you will, is the norm. I am in this shuffle too. There are other factors for me but I am right now really coming to terms that I am internally doing that shuffle as well. It is really sucky. However, if you will stretch your thinking for a second, few things that really require work and effort to change happen overnight or in a straight line. Birth for example- a series of progress, and lulls, progress and lulls. Really, any self improvement that you may engage in- motivation with movement alternating with slipping into complacency and old patterns. I think as long as you keep asking yourself the real questions and keep making choices to be happy with who you are, you will end up with the clarity and movement you need. I hope so.
|
|
|
Post by ironhamster on May 14, 2019 4:27:33 GMT -5
I had a number of smaller big bang realizations. For instance, one day I was in my back yard mowing the lawn and enjoying the summer day, the lake, and my gardens, and realizing that I had to let it all go. It was paid off, and as much as I had expected to be carried out of that home feet first one day, it wasn't mine any more. Another, just a couple months before, I found myself grieving the death of our relationship. Truth be known, it was already dead. It just took a long time to understand that. So, slowly, one piece at a time, the scales came off of my eyes and I was able to see. There were no doubts. The more I knew, the more it all made sense.
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on May 14, 2019 8:46:30 GMT -5
My "ah ha" moment was when I had picked the tree (I mean this literally) I was going to crash my motorcycle into.
Then "ah ha"! I could leave. Obviously I knew this was an option before but in that moment I became willing to wade into the mess and potentially look like the "bad guy".
As it turned out almost two years in nobody is the "bad guy" in the eyes of most people. Most people don't think about it or don't really care.
I'm happy as hell now and am not wrapped around a tree.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:04:30 GMT -5
iceman I am going to echo what others have said that this sounds like a normal stage in the process. Few of us hit a moment and then act on it immediately. Sometimes our partners step in and change the trajectory (i.e. leave or initiate divorce). Other than that I think what you are talking about- the SM divorce shuffle if you will, is the norm. I am in this shuffle too. There are other factors for me but I am right now really coming to terms that I am internally doing that shuffle as well. It is really sucky. However, if you will stretch your thinking for a second, few things that really require work and effort to change happen overnight or in a straight line. Birth for example- a series of progress, and lulls, progress and lulls. Really, any self improvement that you may engage in- motivation with movement alternating with slipping into complacency and old patterns. I think as long as you keep asking yourself the real questions and keep making choices to be happy with who you are, you will end up with the clarity and movement you need. I hope so. Thank you for this. I do keep having to ask myself the real questions and when I do that it seems so obvious. My reasons for staying have nothing really to do with our actual relationship. That is dead. I think we both know it. The reasons for staying are more rooted in fear and the lack of desire to do all the hard work that comes with a really meaningful change. I need to keep moving forward.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:26:13 GMT -5
Brother iceman . I *knew* in about 2004 that my deal was a dead duck, and at that time I pretty much stopped my incessant "why chasing" and treated the marriage for what it was - essentially a Financial Partnership - and I was ok with that .... sort of !! By 2005 I was pretty sure that I was going to have to leave, at some point, but I didn't have the stomach for it at that time, it all looked "too hard" and the case to leave did not, at that time, appear to be in my longer term best interests. By 2006 (which turned out to be one of the worst and tumultuous years ever) the case to leave DID appear to be in my longer term best interests. I was about 55 then. But whereas the case to leave was pretty good, it wasn't good enough for me to action it. It still looked too hard. By 2007/8 I had seen a lawyer and done all the exit planning etc and had a theoretical plan to get out. I fucked about polishing the rough edges off my plan, refining it, fine tuning it etc. Essentially distracting myself from actioning the plan by concentrating on the finer detail of the plan. The case to leave by then was very strong that it was in my best longer term interests to get out. But short term, there was the monumental problem of the fight, ill will etc etc that was the big stumbling block. It was "easier" - short term - to stay, even though longer term it was NOT in my best interests to stay. Your post reads to me like you are currently in this same position. You know (or at least strongly suspect) that in the longer term of things, you'd be better off by leaving. But you also know that short term, such a move is likely to be ugly. Brother iceman, I think you have to keep doing the financial and emotional sums. Does the case to stay stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. Does the case to leave stand up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. It may take a while before the sums emerge with a pretty clear answer to that "what's in your longer term best interests" question. For me, 2009 proved pivotal. That's when the case to leave became overwhelmingly obvious. I left. Never regretted it, wish I'd done it earlier. But for me, getting from knowing my deal was a dead duck to actually getting out was a process measured in years rather than months. Thank you for this. This sounds very much like the ‘process’ I’ve been wading through over the last few years. I’ve known for several years that our marriage as an intimate loving relationship has been dead and it really is more of a business relationship centering around raising our children and maintaining a household. Not much romance in that but it seems to be enough for her. I’m going to have to be the bad guy and file. She’s comfortable with living in an unhappy relationship as long as the ‘business’ end of the marriage are in good order. That is more important to her than a romantic relationship, which pretty much says all that I need to know about our marriage. I’ve done the sums you suggested many times. On balance I know in the long term I’ll be better off leaving. I need to keep keep reminding myself that.
|
|
|
Post by iceman on May 14, 2019 9:49:36 GMT -5
Back to you: You have to figure out whether the companionship and concern and other benefits you get from being with your wife outweigh the stress, depression, low self esteem, etc. of being with her. For me, when I decided to divorce, it was like a burden was lifted off my shoulders. I radiated so much joy that acquaintances asked me what was going on in my life that was causing me to be so happy! I have never regretted my divorce. Not one time. The only time I missed my ex was one time when I wished he were around to change a ceiling light bulb. Then, I remembered the stepladder and forgot all about my ex. Thank you. Other than finances I can think of no benefits from being with my wife. I’m happier when she’s not around, much happier. I have feelings of sadness when I come home and she’s there. I make excuses not to be home. That should be enough. I have no doubt that I won’t regret my divorce in the long run, and mostly not even in the short term. I just need to keep telling myself that and move forward.
|
|
|
Post by h on May 14, 2019 9:51:32 GMT -5
My "ah ha" moment was when I had picked the tree (I mean this literally) I was going to crash my motorcycle I to. Then "ah ha"! I could leave. Obviously I knew this was an option before but in that moment I became willing to wade into the mess and potentially look like the "bad guy". As it turned out almost two years in nobody is the "bad guy" in the eyes of most people. Most people don't think about it or don't really care. I'm happy as hell now and am not wrapped around a tree. I started looking for answers online and found iliasm shortly after I had picked out the stairwell railing at work that I was going to take a final swing from. Those kind of thoughts generally do force one to reevaluate life choices.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on May 14, 2019 10:53:57 GMT -5
Iceman said: “ I have feeling of sadness when I come home and she’s there. I make excuses not to be home. ”
I reacted the same way to my ex. I felt sad when I’d hear his car in the driveway. I was glad when he’d leave the house. I spent as much time as possible away from him.
|
|