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Post by ironhamster on May 10, 2019 16:22:25 GMT -5
On another sexless marriage site, I was touched by a post from a refusing spouse. She did not want to be a refuser, and was actively seeking solutions to her lack of desire and trying to implement them.
I contrasted that with my personal experience and the experiences of most of us. How atypical.
In most cases, I believe our refusers are more intentional about misleading us, or even themselves, into believing that their refusal is normal. This is devastating to the refused just on the basis of a lack of intimacy, but the final straw is when we realize how much we have been lied to, and sometimes viciously so in an attempt to control us instead of love us. In my case, that control was so effective that, when I finally had a clear understanding of my own situation, people had been telling me the truth for about six months, and I somehow found a way to dismiss all of it.
In this case, though, if I was married to a refuser like this it could have been a game changer. It was a rare instance of a refuser honestly confronting her own problems. I can't help but wonder if I would have chosen to stay if my situation had been this sort of mess, instead of the hand I was dealt.
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Post by isthisit on May 10, 2019 16:36:21 GMT -5
On another sexless marriage site, I was touched by a post from a refusing spouse. She did not want to be a refuser, and was actively seeking solutions to her lack of desire and trying to implement them. I contrasted that with my personal experience and the experiences of most of us. How atypical. In most cases, I believe our refusers are more intentional about misleading us, or even themselves, into believing that their refusal is normal. This is devastating to the refused just on the basis of a lack of intimacy, but the final straw is when we realize how much we have been lied to, and sometimes viciously so in an attempt to control us instead of love us. In my case, that control was so effective that, when I finally had a clear understanding of my own situation, people had been telling me the truth for about six months, and I somehow found a way to dismiss all of it. In this case, though, if I was married to a refuser like this it could have been a game changer. It was a rare instance of a refuser honestly confronting her own problems. I can't help but wonder if I would have chosen to stay if my situation had been this sort of mess, instead of the hand I was dealt. I imagine I would most probably been willing to stay and work with H had he acknowledged the reality of our situation in an attempt to achieve a common ground acceptable to us both. Sadly, he continues to deny that his refusal existed at all, so all hope lost on that one. I agree that you have to admire the gumption of this lady to accept and acknowledge her behaviour and seek solutions. I hope it works out for them both.
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Post by choosinghappy on May 10, 2019 17:00:06 GMT -5
I also hope it works out for them. Having mismatched libidos is difficult for sure but it doesn’t necessarily have to be a deal breaker, especially if both spouses are truly willing to work on it. I think that’s most people’s hopes for their own marriage when they arrive here at iliasm. I know that it was for me, until I confronted the reality of my situation. I’ve actually seen quite a bit of what you described ironhamster, because of an online mom’s group that I’m in. The women would talk about having zero sexual desire after a new (or another) baby was born and how, even though they knew it was bad for their marriage, they just couldn’t bring themselves to be sexual with their husbands. It is SO common. So I was the one lone voice sharing what it felt like to be on the refused end of that situation. I had a lot of really good discussions and helped a lot of them understand the bigger picture. But the key was: those women were willing to try. Not everyone is, as we’ve seen with a lot of the refusers here. 😕
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Post by workingonit on May 10, 2019 17:31:09 GMT -5
I too have seen this on other sites. I know for sure I would have chosen to stay if my h had that willingness and desire to work on our marriage. The effort and desire would have sustained my hope if nothing else.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 10, 2019 17:35:12 GMT -5
On another sexless marriage site, I was touched by a post from a refusing spouse. She did not want to be a refuser, and was actively seeking solutions to her lack of desire and trying to implement them. For me this was a big piece of the puzzle. Why wouldn't she seek help? I did as soon as I realized I wasn't craving sex the way I used to. I don't think my X wanted to be a refuser. She simply had no desire and could not understand or accept my refusal to just go along with the status quo. We had numerous "talks" about how unhappy I was, invariably followed by a few weeks of reset sex, invariably follow by a return to the status quo. Until the talks didn't work any more and she just tuned me out when or avoided me when she recognized what was coming. She willingly admitted to breaking our marriage vows but was unwilling to seek medical or psychological counseling for herself. She was also unwilling to go along with me having a FWB even though I assured her it would just be for sex and that if I felt something more was finding it's way into the friendship I would break it off. Instead she argued I should accept that for us intimacy was going to be a rare event, a position boosted and reinforced by her sorority sisters. The woman who posted on the other site was a rare refuser in deed. And had my X taken the initive to seek answers for her lost libido as I did things might well have been different. That's possibly true for a lot of us here.
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Post by Handy on May 10, 2019 18:00:31 GMT -5
ironhamster, I too have read about women that wanted to be more sexual but just couldn't get there. This is one reason I seem lenient towards many refuser's. I can understand where some are coming from and give them the benefit that something is missing for them and it isn't intentional.
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Post by baza on May 10, 2019 18:33:08 GMT -5
There are many routes that lead into ILIASM.
"Bait and Switch Boulevard". "Vague Medical Issue Highway" "Undiagnosed Mental Issues Turnpike" "Selfishness Street" "Narcissism Tollway" - to name just a few.
But once in ILIASM, everyone starts off equal again, regardless of how they got here.
Then - They stay in ILIASM, and become very familiar with the place and its' good and bad features. They stay in ILIASM, and visit other places when they need to. They may enter a new address, like Singletown, in their GPS device and plan an alternative route, out of ILIASM.
The way in to ILIASM is variable. The way out is not.
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Post by greatcoastal on May 11, 2019 8:41:37 GMT -5
ironhamster , if only. If only the problem was a refuser's lack of desire for sex and intimacy? However too many of our refusers REFUSE to submit control in all other aspects of marriage and a relationship. It's not just sex, it bleeds over into everything! Hence the lack of trust. Money, time, methods of disciplining children, sense of humor, relatives, etc....
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Post by greatcoastal on May 11, 2019 9:25:44 GMT -5
My woman and I were introduced to another lady the other night, who is going through a divorce. ( we think she is about 45 yrs old)
She started with how her H cheated on her and how she can not trust him. She claimed she had been with him her entire life-since she was 17 yrs old) Then came where he was living ( down the street in an even more expensive gated neighborhood, than the one we were standing in) with his girlfriend.
Then came the money issues. She was looking for a house to rent. ( she is employed full time and a manager over several people in a high paying profession.)
Then came how she hates all men and can not trust men, wants to be alone and wants no men ever in her life.( She showed with her hands how she just wants to strangle men)
She sounds just like a perfect candidate for a victim of a SM, right?
After a little bit more prodding ,up came the red flags!!
1) she told my girlfriend about a guy she had once dated for 2 yrs. ( she is 6 months into her divorce) It turns out the guy she dated was my girlfriends ex H..... You can do the math.
2) It was all about the money. She gripped and moaned about spending $5000 on an attorney already, and can't afford it! ( she was driving a brand new car, and just come back from working out at the most expensive gym) Her H has not given her a dime! Then came the confession about their 7 properties that are in 'the company name' and how she HAS TO remain living on beachside, because she wants too.
Many of our refusers need a very stern, life lesson, that only a divorce, and them reaching rock bottom, ( total isolation from all people and support) can give them. Even then they still manage to just find another victim and the process starts all over again, to someone else. Fortunately it is no longer us!
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Post by flashjohn on May 15, 2019 11:05:41 GMT -5
I know if my ExRefuser had admitted that this was a problem, and tried to seek out solutions, I would probably still be with her.
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Post by hopingforachange on May 15, 2019 12:23:35 GMT -5
So, I'm loving thru this and there are days it's hard to want to continue to stay married. Those are the days that I think, why did it take me going thru a depression and planning suicide before she decided to change? Is that really the person I want to be married to? Someone that pushes thier partner to hear death? While the sex life has dramatically improved, it's still not what I want now. There's still so many rules and other BS and "it's just my automatic reaction" excuses to get pulling away when I try to initiate.
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Post by h on May 15, 2019 12:43:45 GMT -5
So, I'm loving thru this and there are days it's hard to want to continue to stay married. Those are the days that I think, why did it take me going thru a depression and planning suicide before she decided to change? Is that really the person I want to be married to? Someone that pushes thier partner to hear death? While the sex life has dramatically improved, it's still not what I want now. There's still so many rules and other BS and "it's just my automatic reaction" excuses to get pulling away when I try to initiate. I know what you mean. My W hasn't really changed or even tried to. I'm at the point now where even if she did start trying, I don't know if I could let it go and move forward. She ignored me for that long, neglecting my needs and putting everything in the world ahead of me and our marriage. Why would I continue putting my effort into saving the relationship?
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Post by isthisit on May 15, 2019 13:06:31 GMT -5
There's still so many rules and other BS and "it's just my automatic reaction" excuses to get pulling away when I try to initiate. Good grief that is horrendous. I am not sure how one could recover from that. It’s all you really need to know right there. Empathy to you.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 15, 2019 14:44:12 GMT -5
ironhamster, I too have read about women that wanted to be more sexual but just couldn't get there. This is one reason I seem lenient towards many refuser's. I can understand where some are coming from and give them the benefit that something is missing for them and it isn't intentional. It may not be intentional, but it may be preventable or treatable. Lack of hormones for either sex can often be addressed by HRT. For me it was lining up the testosterone needle and later gulping down the Viagra or Cialis as needed. My X would not consider HRT due to a history of ovarian cancer in her family. OK, what about some estrogen crème now and then? Nope not interested, she took enough medication for other issues and wasn't interested in more. Where does your W fall on the willingness to address her lack of libido? Or is a physical impairment or something else that can't be treated the problem?
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Post by Handy on May 15, 2019 21:51:56 GMT -5
Worksfor me2 My X would not consider HRT due to a history of ovarian cancer in her family. OK, what about some estrogen crème now and then? Nope not interested, she took enough medication for other issues and wasn't interested in more.
I have a very similar case. My W has some estrogen + markers that would make cancer grow faster than normal.
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