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Post by lessingham on Mar 28, 2019 5:45:10 GMT -5
Does anyone have a good reading list about working through to a solution? The books should be useful and practical I am searching for a way forward, not a way out.
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Post by baza on Mar 28, 2019 6:40:56 GMT -5
Over the years I've read heaps of books about relationships. Some damn good ones too, full of helpful practical stuff about re-branding and recovering a basically sound marriage that has run off the rails. Dr Phils "Relationship Rescue" was memorable. The old "Men Are From Mars - Women Are From Venus" was pretty good. "When I Say No I Feel Guilty" had a lot of helpful stuff. Plenty of others too.
Unfortunately, my marriage was not a basically sound situation. It was a full blown ILIASM shithole, and they are pretty much impervious to the standard advice you get from books like the above. So I learned a lot out of these books - and that's a good thing, has been of value in my deal with Ms enna. But my ILIASM deal was unresponsive. It had gone on too long and the underlying quality was insufficient a base to build from.
Anyway, those titles above I found interesting enough reading in their own right.
There's assorted blogs on the net too. I'm an avid reader of Mark Mansons blog when he's writing about relationships. He might not be your cup of tea however.
Incidently, you say you are looking - "for a way forward, not a way out" Sometimes, the way forward IS the way out.
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Post by smith227 on Mar 28, 2019 7:58:14 GMT -5
Like baza I’ve read too many relationship books to count. What I’ve found to be the most helpful is the articles I find after googling. Some examples: How to live life without human touch? My husband doesn’t touch me ever. How to talk to a narcissistic? Am I being gaslighted? Is my husband gay? My husband is repulsed by me. Dismissive avoidant. Touch avoidant husband? How to deal with a manipulative spouse? Detachment in marriage. Apathy in marriage. Divorce attorneys. The best search by far, was the last.
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Post by seekinganswers on Mar 28, 2019 8:34:17 GMT -5
Everything and anything by Esther Perel. Mating in Captivity is one of her books, and she has a TED talk you can find on YouTube. I’ve watched basically all her interviews and listened to all the podcasts (the woman appears in my dreams haha), you can’t go wrong with anything you find of her.
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Post by h on Mar 28, 2019 9:00:21 GMT -5
The only books I know of are only helpful if BOTH spouses read them. If she's willing to read them too and wants to work on the marriage, it's possible. If she won't participate, the books won't help much.
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Post by workingonit on Mar 28, 2019 10:24:57 GMT -5
Everything and anything by Esther Perel. Mating in Captivity is one of her books, and she has a TED talk you can find on YouTube. I’ve watched basically all her interviews and listened to all the podcasts (the woman appears in my dreams haha), you can’t go wrong with anything you find of her. Agreed. She is unique and very helpful. The Intimate Marriage also. But really agree that there is no way at all to move forward together unless you both admit there is a problem and dedicate yourself to working on it with true willingness to change. Most likely you, like so many of us here, can move forward alone.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 28, 2019 10:50:57 GMT -5
“The Five Love Languages” was very useful. I read it while married and what I learned was how different my husband and I were. His language was acts of service, something that I was indifferent to. Mine were physical touch and words of affirmation,things that meant little to him.
Knowing those differences didn’t heal our marriage. It highlighted how we couldn’t give each other what we wanted. Knowing about myself and my needs was, however, of great help after I left the marriage. It helped me end up with a man whose love language matches mine. He doesn’t have to force himself to compliment or touch me. He does those things because they bring joy to both of us.
If people are incompatible as you and your wife are no book can change you so you are compatible. From your wife’s perspective such a book would cause you to be happy giving constantly to her while she shows no reciprocation or appreciation. You’d never desire sex with her. This example shows how unrealistic your desire is to find s book that would give you the marriage you want. You are with the wrong person. No book can change your wife into the kind of spouse you want.
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Post by saarinista on Mar 28, 2019 16:19:32 GMT -5
Let me add my voice to the chorus recommending anything by Esther Perel. Her YouTube videos are great and free and her books are great and worth the money.
And of course your spouse has to be interested in learning, too, to fix your marriage.
But even if she won't read or watch with you, I heartily recommend checking out her stuff as well as the other resources recommended. ❣️
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Post by Handy on Mar 28, 2019 19:10:36 GMT -5
Lessingham Does anyone have a good reading list about working through to a solution?
That depends on the problem and how much tolerance to the method and outcome you can stand.
I didn't want to assume it was a relationship or marriage problem because you didn't say it was.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 19:37:50 GMT -5
Esther Perel is fabulously insightful! My sex therapist turned me on to her (no pun intended 🙂). I could listen to her forever and have learned much - about myself and what / how I think / expect from my marriage. Sex Without Stress by Jessa Zimmerman was another recommendation by my therapist, which I found helpful. I also love Mark Manson and his writings, especially his Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck. Not exactly relationship stuff, but plenty of life realizations which can be applied to ourselves which, in turn, transfer to our relationships.
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Post by Handy on Apr 5, 2019 21:34:02 GMT -5
Whynotm3, I like Esther Perel too. One relationship forum I read claim her dribble is why people cheat and get divorced or that she condones extra-marital affairs and divorce. I am happy that that doesn't happen on this forum.
This other relationship forum is pro divorce and that is the major way they advise if there are any thoughts of any other people getting some of what we might call relationship attention.
One guy even burned the antique marital bedroom furniture when he found out his W had sex with another guy.
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Post by baza on Apr 5, 2019 22:25:36 GMT -5
(Rant) People who take the moral highground over cheating and/or divorce give me the screaming shits. Neither is illegal in my jurisdiction, and whereas I don't know what % of married person cheat, I do know that in my jurisdiction about 35% of married couples divorce. Indeed I know quite a few people who have divorced (actually, I am one of them as is Ms enna) and funnily enough they seem to be quite nice and normal people, no more moral or corrupt than you or me.
Now if you, or anyone else want to take the moral high ground, for yourself, and live these values that you have set, for yourself and by yourself, then good for you, and I commend you on making your choice....because that's what these issues are - a matter of choice, NOT a matter of morals. You are well entitled to your choice.
But, if you want to inflict YOUR values concerning cheating and/or divorce on to me - or anyone else - and look down your nose at me and the choices I and others made about our lives, then you can go scale MtMoralHighground and enjoy the 'superior' view, and as far as I am concerned while you're there, you can go fuck yourself.
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Post by Handy on Apr 5, 2019 23:48:45 GMT -5
Baza, I was trying to give the impression some forums have their own cultural norms and what is promoted as the "right way."
The forum that several people took offense to Perele's style of counseling is Talk About Marriage (TAM)." That site had some good points but as I said it is pro divorce and anti affairs. Here on ILIASM, we don't criticize people that have a FWB. On TAM if you have a FWB you get verbally stoned or at heavily shamed. It is No monkey business until the divorce is finalized. Like here people are encouraged to not date right after the divorce until you get your shit sorted out.
I prefer this group to TAM, but TAM has more viewpoints posted. Reading TAM is sort of an education about how varied relationship problems can be. Burning beds, suicide attempts over a divorce, long stays in a 100% one on one suicide prevention psychiatric facility that might last over a year double OW-OM, former OW-OM giving advice or posting how they screwed up and how to not screw up again. A few swingers, a few religious Bible enthusiast, arranged marriages, just to name a few of the types of people that post on TAM. There is also a sexless marriage section.
One thing they do not have is an intelligent guy like Baza. Well sort of, but you are still the best.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 7:39:57 GMT -5
Whynotm3, I like Esther Perel too. One relationship forum I read claim her dribble is why people cheat and get divorced or that she condones extra-marital affairs and divorce. I am happy that that doesn't happen on this forum.
This other relationship forum is pro divorce and that is the major way they advise if there are any thoughts of any other people getting some of what we might call relationship attention.
One guy even burned the antique marital bedroom furniture when he found out his W had sex with another guy.
Handy, that's so odd as I've never gotten her message as pro-affair. I've always heard her message and thought, I needed this BEFORE I got married as what she says evokes so much self-reflection out of me, especially how she speaks of expectations and the desire to have one person take care of ALL our needs. I process her words and try to implement them and use them to guide me in my marriage. I've never heard her and thought, "I should go cheat b/c 1 person can't satisfy all my needs." I guess people hear what they want to hear. That aside, I agree about the acceptance and non-judgmental attitude of the people here. What I do is no one else's business to judge.
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Post by Handy on Apr 7, 2019 16:44:23 GMT -5
Whynotme3 Handy, that's so odd as I've never gotten her message as pro-affair.
I agree with you that Perele is not pro-affairs. She mostly explains the circumstances that contribute to many affairs.
Many of the "Talk About Marriage" people seem to be pro-divorce when there are significant relationship issues.
One guy often states in his relationships if the sex was not really good, he dumped that relationship ASAP. A couple of mature women did the same thing. Anyone in an affair gets criticized a lot. Any couple where one partner is having an affair the common advice is divorce, it will never work out.
OTH, the stayers do get help if they reject the divorce now advice.
I think I posted that Perel was outlining what lead to the affair and she wasn't endorsing or condoning affairs, but some TAM people wanted her to condemn affairs, not explain why they happen.
I can imagine if I posted that I was looking for a FWB, I would be told that my morals were trash and that I needed to divorce first.
I do respect several TAM posters as having good insight to relationship issues. You just have to ignore of the "pro divorce ASAP" advice.
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