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Post by baza on Mar 17, 2019 2:25:19 GMT -5
The values we hold are curious things. Sometimes born out of experience, sometimes by indoctrination from parents or religious teachings. Sometimes ‘all of the above’. Sometimes by us figuring stuff out by ourselves.
In a lot of cases, these values we adopt become our identity, they become who we think we are. And this is not necessarily such a bad thing – but neither is it always a good thing. It depends on what those values are. If they are life enhancing values that’s great. But if they are life depleting values, or out of date with your current reality, then not so much.
Take a situation where you have developed a life value of marriage being forever, that divorce is wrong and is something you would never do. Now, imagine you have found yourself in an ILIASM shithole and are desperately unhappy. Is this life value you have held (for who knows how long) actually enhancing your life ? Is it possible it is actually depleting your life ? Could it be that this particular life value – that you have had for many years - is actually …… wrong …… or completely out of whack with your current reality? You’d need a pretty brutal self examination to answer that question I think. Usually if one has a life value challenged one tends to grip that value even tighter, hold it closer and reject anything to the contrary.
Challenging ones values, particularly those values you have had for years is some really hard and demanding work. It is extraordinarily uncomfortable to come to a realization that a value you have held for ages may be completely wrong, or completely out of whack with your present situation.
I think you owe it to yourself to take a good hard look at your assorted life values. I know that in a lot of mine, the values I had were not helping me a real lot. And that was a very unsettling and even confusing time for me. And then, the questions just got harder.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 17, 2019 11:23:29 GMT -5
Good points, baza. It’s interesting how ingrained beliefs and values can be, and for no reason other than it’s how we were taught. Those with opposing views can seem so radically wrong. And they can see us as equally misguided. And you’re right that some of them can become so core to how we define ourselves that going against them almost challenges who we are. And boy are they a lever just begging for manipulation - don’t believe in divorce? So, you’ll tolerate a lot of bad behavior with no consequences, eh? E.g.,, tolerance, forgiveness, dedication, generosity are all great qualities. But when they have no boundary, they’re ripe for abuse.
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Post by baza on Mar 18, 2019 0:04:56 GMT -5
Very true Brother DryCreek . For many years, I carried a value that I was a tough s.o.b. pretty much impervious to pressure, unbreakable in the face of any adversity you could throw at me. That was me - "the hard man" .... by my own standards. And I thought this was an admirable and life enhancing position to take. I lived it for years. Thing is, that when put under the microscope, this value - of being the hard man - was not enhancing my life. Indeed, it was actually having a deleterious effect on my life, in as much as my ability to absorb pressure had the effect of attracting more pressure because 'I could handle it'. There was no boundary, no point where I'd say "enough". The "hard man" value was actually a yoke around my neck - and I had put the yoke on all by myself. It was actually a position of weakness. It wasn't helping me toward a better place, or enhancing my life at all. It was not a "good" value. That realization hit me like a ton of bricks. That Dr Phil bloke I see on tv at times sometimes bristles his mustash and asks people - "and how is that life value working out for you ?" That's a pretty pertinent question to ask oneself I think.
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Post by theexplorer on Mar 21, 2019 10:27:33 GMT -5
E.g.,, tolerance, forgiveness, dedication, generosity are all great qualities. But when they have no boundary, they’re ripe for abuse.
Wow!!! That is something I've never considered, DryCreek. Thanks for stating this so clearly!!
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Post by baza on Mar 23, 2019 22:35:48 GMT -5
Suffice to say, these "moral values" take a huge amount of thought to establish for any individual. Very difficult work. And once established, those boundaries Brother DryCreek refers to also have to be established. More difficult work. And then, these values have to be lived .... perhaps the most difficult task of all. And all the time, you have to keep your values under review. Keep them relevant to the real world.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 24, 2019 6:45:43 GMT -5
It is hard to keep in balance what you value and how much. To me, how important was it to have...
Sex, a loving spouse, an example of a loving relationship for my kids to follow, financial stability, the house I invested years of memories, time for improvement projects, and money on, ...stop right there. Go back to #2 and #3. Was it a loving spouse? I was working hard to provide her lifestyle, and what was I getting in return? If our roles were reversed, what would I be doing to show my appreciation? As much as I thought I had #2, I didn't. Without it, I really didn't have #3. That was why #1 wasn't happening. The lack of #2 was also why I did not have #4, as I worked a lot of overtime to keep up with all her spending. I could figure out how to have #4 even at a lower standard of living, which made #5 a moot point. There was a lot of grieving involved, but I have no regrets.
I have another friend that hates his job. He could tell you years out how long he had before he could retire, to the day. At the top of his list is #4 and #5. There is nothing wrong with that. What he values have led to other choices.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 24, 2019 7:08:05 GMT -5
At that point where I had worked through my grief, my wife and I were talking to some church friends on the topic of marriage. The consensus, to which I chose not to rebut, was that a marriage should be for forever, and you just need to deal with these problems and figure it out. Years ago, I believed like they did, and I had a lot of confidence that I could fix any problem and make anything work. The sad truth is, some things cannot be fixed. The good news is, it does not make you a bad person to accept that "this isn't working." It makes you an honest person. I hope everyone can value that.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 24, 2019 19:03:01 GMT -5
I'm actually having a little issue with just this thing with my bf. He at first was going to stay because he took vows and because he felt like he was getting to the age for a sex life to matter much longer. I disagree with all that and add never to late for affection and respect and he didn't have that either. Well he left divorce is final but I honestly feel he is still struggling with public opinion of divorce and dating. Example he just recently told his mom about me ( Jan) she was thrilled. I still haven't met her. None of his close friends or coworkers know about me. Meanwhile he knows my kids, friends and coworkers. My family live in another state so they know of him but not met him yet. Yesterday he wanted to take me for Indian food but his favorite restaurant is one he frequented often for many, many years with his ex and kids. He said I almost feel weird going in there with someone else. I told him we don't have to but I think its sad that he felt fine eating there with her when things were shit at home but had to play nice But feel bad about going out with me with me when we are actually happy in and out of the house. Have to say I'm struggling so bring on your advice! I'm trying to let him move at his own pace and he is moving forward but it bothers me at times.
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Post by baza on Mar 24, 2019 19:33:46 GMT -5
Well it does look like this set of problems (his reticence to include you fully with his social circle) is a way better problem to have compared to being in your old ILIASM shithole. It really looks like he'd have done well to have taken some time out after his divorce to do an autopsy on his marriage and get his shit sorted out before embarking on a new relationship. He does seem to be carrying a fair bit of baggage from it. Anyway, he didn't do that. That's the fact. So now he is trying to come to terms with a new relationship (with you) without having gotten closure on his old deal. That's a pretty tough juggling act, and your story reads like he's not doing a real good job of it. I really dunno what to suggest here Sister angeleyes65 . Other than a word of caution - don't invest more in this bloke than you're prepared to lose.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 24, 2019 20:06:31 GMT -5
baza he was my AF partner together over 7 years before he got out. I've been out since June of 2017 him June of 2018 and I think he progresses slow. But we are great together so hope it holds together. Wonder if he would be in a different place if we hadn"t started before we were single but no one knows we did
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 24, 2019 20:42:27 GMT -5
I'm actually having a little issue with just this thing with my bf. He at first was going to stay because he took vows and because he felt like he was getting to the age for a sex life to matter much longer. I disagree with all that and add never to late for affection and respect and he didn't have that either. Well he left divorce is final but I honestly feel he is still struggling with public opinion of divorce and dating. Example he just recently told his mom about me ( Jan) she was thrilled. I still haven't met her. None of his close friends or coworkers know about me. Meanwhile he knows my kids, friends and coworkers. My family live in another state so they know of him but not met him yet. Yesterday he wanted to take me for Indian food but his favorite restaurant is one he frequented often for many, many years with his ex and kids. He said I almost feel weird going in there with someone else. I told him we don't have to but I think its sad that he felt fine eating there with her when things were shit at home but had to play nice But feel bad about going out with me with me when we are actually happy in and out of the house. Have to say I'm struggling so bring on your advice! I'm trying to let him move at his own pace and he is moving forward but it bothers me at times. I am going to side with your BF, on this one, going on what little info. is given. My decision is based on my own similar recent experiences. I am currently dating one woman. We have been together 4 months. My first since my divorce a year ago. There are times when I feel very uneasy about going places where I used to go with my now ex and family. Even more awkward is going places that my girlfriend visits frequently. I get sized up, judged and stared at! ( I do get positive reviews!) My girlfriend also likes to show affection for me in public. This showing of affection is more "new ground" for me. Her family lives in another country, they all wanted to meet me, after we had been dating all of 2 weeks! A lot of our friends followed the same pattern. Many people who know of my girlfriends past seem concerned, and ask, " does he treat you right?" I felt fine going to my church ( a church I visited during my divorce, going single-mostly- or with my daughter) alone for 3 years during and after my divorce. I recently went with my girlfriend by my side. She likes to hold my hand, my arm, press her breast into my side, and out of nowhere give me a big hug, saying " oh honey, you're so sweet". Meanwhile my head is racing with thoughts about "introducing her to people. Do I say her name? Do I say, " this is my girlfriend"? I say to her " please let go of me. I am not used to that. Not here. No one does that here (sad truth). For all I know, no one cares! But I feel like others are watching me. And then part of me thinks " let them watch. They are probably just envious." Once again, I worry. When in reality it should only be a mild concern. It does take some time though. Then there's the trust issue. I wonder "how long will it last", and how big of a public statement do I want to make? I certainly was in a " comfort zone" when all I had to say is " this is my wife", and we never talked , touched, or where seldom seen together. Strange....isn't it? It's going to take some time to sort things out, but... I am aware of it and working on it. To keep in line with this thread; I am sure my head is filled with 'values'. Values that helped me make it through marriage to a refuser. Those same 'values' have now been turned on it's head by being divorced and walking into public, at age 55 with a girlfriend ( close to my age) who holds back very little when it comes to showing affection!
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 25, 2019 5:59:52 GMT -5
greatcoastal baza thanks for the insite and just listening. I'm sure he will get over the feeling of failure for getting out of his marriage . I feel like the spouses failed the marriage we succeeded by leaving the SM shithole and being happy. Maybe I'm just an optimist. We are great together at home we go out on weekends we don't hide. I also am affectionate in public it was weird for him at first going from affair to legitimate. But now he initiates. If we run into somone he knows he introduces me as his gf. The restaurant was the first time its come up in awhile. I just think its a Shame he feels embarrassed in that situation. He is buying a house soon and we are moving in together people will know sooner or later. He's just lertting it happen not making any announcement. I think part of the issue is he confided in two people about the SM marriage and those are the two he told first about me I think he feels the other people will be shocked. Guess I didn't pretend my marriage was OK when it wasn't . we will get through this. Just the baggage we struggle with . part of that baggage is the values we started with.
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Post by sadkat on Mar 25, 2019 8:56:41 GMT -5
angeleyes65- transition times are always challenging. With patience and understanding, things will work out. I’m reading a lot of self help books at the moment as I struggle to get out of my marriage. I came across this subject in an article (I think). Some people struggle with returning to places that hold positive memories of their lives with former spouses. It has nothing to do with the decision they made to divorce. I think some sensitivity, understanding, and patience is all you need. He may never be able to take you to that restaurant and that’s ok. There are other places in which new memories can be created. Good Luck!
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 25, 2019 9:28:38 GMT -5
sadkat thanks for the words of wisdom. Somedays my patience is greater than others. Some days I'm more sensitive . I don't care if we ever go to that restaurant I guess I interpret it as feeling guilty or judged for seeking happiness. Sometimes I think he's stuck in affair mode in some aspects but he is moving along slowly.
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