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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 17, 2019 13:49:28 GMT -5
I never considered cheating ever, even when the marriage went bad. I actually caught my ex on an adult hook up site and was so pissed off that he lied to me like I was stupid that I set up a profile. I had been totally without sex for 3 years . I had even pretty much gave up toys I just didn't think about sex anymore I had no intentions of doing anything with it. I mean what kind of people would be on a site like that? Why would anyone want me I was in my 40's put on weight from depression. But I started chatting and guess what 90% of the people I ran into we're in sexless marriages most weren't cheating but liked the online safe attention and I found out my sex drive was only hibernating and people were attracted to me. He dug his own grave,he turned me on to the thought of outsourcing. My ex had been my only partner didn't know if I could even do it. But I did and it opened my eyes to the fact that I was missing out on not only sex but attention and affection and just someone to talk to about this stuff. ( That's prior to finding EP) I think the best thing is to get out. I regret putting it off. But it helped me in a lot of ways to get to the point of putting myself first and pushing through with my exit plan. And I found the man I love. Our Dynamics are so different than what we had with our spouses in everyway. In my case it worked out well but I wish I would have just left many years ago. It mentally screws us being in these hell hole marriages when we went in with all the fairytale expectations and by the time it goes to hell we have intertwined families, debt, kids. Is there a right way and wrong way to deal with a situation we should have never been in?
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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 17, 2019 14:25:14 GMT -5
Cheating seems like such a wrong word! Especially in a situation such as a SM, when the REAL cheating has been done through manipulation, control, gaslighting, DARVO, etc...
Instead, let's look at it as, a new beginning, a life change. Finding out who you were originally created to be, not what tradition, or a controller molded you to become.
When opportunity comes, it can come in many forms. This does not always include sex and (here's that word again) cheating. Finding yourself again can be done through many of the steps that have been listed on this forum. Support groups, counselling, family support, friends, zip code therapy, exercize, etc...
However , being touched and desired again can be one of the most powerful 'miracles' that can change your life, back onto a path of having the faith to say "nevertheless, I will move forward, and heal".
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 17, 2019 14:55:13 GMT -5
greatcoastal. I agree I NEVER refer to it as cheating but since the thread was labeled that way I ran with it. I actually feel like the marriage was over by the time I out sourced we we're room mates nothing more. I even told him that. My other thought is it takes nothing from them they didn't want it. If our spouses decided they weren't going to eat any more it's s waste if time I don't think we would starve along side them . They were starving us emotionally and physically .
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Post by baza on Mar 18, 2019 23:19:08 GMT -5
This is a bit of a side-bar, but I don't buy the "it just happened" in regard to cheating.
I will - grudgingly - concede that "it just happened" might possibly be true the first time, but after that, it becomes a choice, and you own it and any consequences that ensue from it.
Just as the refusive spouse "just happened" to suddenly cease sexual engagement. Understandable the first time, but after that, it's a choice, and they own it and any consequences that may ensue from it.
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Post by dannyc on Mar 19, 2019 13:04:09 GMT -5
If you are looking to "step out" and get your sex elsewhere you need to be careful not to mention you are in as sexless marriage until AFTER you have had your first sexual encounter. It may be OK for women to talk about it with a would-be sex partner but definitely not men. Why? Because women will think you are telling them this so they will give you "mercy sex" and more likely than not they will not believe you. Sexless marriage is such a strange concept to most people that it is better not to mention it right off the bat.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 19, 2019 13:22:31 GMT -5
I think it’s rarely a good idea to tell potential partners you are in a sm. When I was young and single, married men told me that. I assumed they were either lying, bad in bed or lacked the balls to leave a bad marriage. I saw no reason to be involved with them.
Until we had been in a relationship for about 6 months, i didn’t tell my partner of 6 years that my my marriage had been sexless for years. I didn’t want him to think I was desperate or that there was something sexually unappealing about me.
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Post by h on Mar 19, 2019 14:10:57 GMT -5
Outsourcing isn't really part of who I am. Even if it's completely irrelevant to the world, the "moral high ground" matters to me. I won't lie and say I couldn't ever fall into it though. I know that if I were in such a position, I would have a very hard time maintaining my resolve and resisting a woman's determined advances. As a result, I avoid all such potential situations where any kind of flirting could take place. It's easier to just avoid having to say no than actually saying no.
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2019 18:08:41 GMT -5
I can see the logic in avoiding situations where ones moral position might be put to the test Brother h . In this particular part of life, avoiding situations where there might be opportunities to flirt. The downside to this is that as a consequence and at the same time by default, you also avoid situations for plain old conversation, friendship, and basic social interaction and building your support network. I'm not so sure that adopting a life value of isolating yourself is going to have a long term benefit.
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Post by sadkat on Mar 19, 2019 18:21:52 GMT -5
baza- I don’t buy that cheating “just happened”, either. We humans have the ability to control our actions. It’s just that we are weakened when we are not sexually fulfilled which makes it that much harder to avoid temptation.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 19, 2019 19:33:01 GMT -5
For a long time, I know that I did avoid situations where cheating might have "just happenned." Dare I say it, but my old self would be very judgmental about the road I eventually took.
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Post by Handy on Mar 19, 2019 20:09:48 GMT -5
For me flirting or even being social with women and men is something I need to develop. I know I am often too practical and what was called "strait laced", avoided anything that some people would consider inappropriate. I always have taken things slow, maybe too slow, so I trust my instincts and my serious risk avoidance.
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 19, 2019 20:13:19 GMT -5
I think the idea of “plausible deniability” is sometimes conveniently applied, even in an attempt to fool ourselves, when we put ourselves in positions that could be justified as innocent but are highly sexually charged. One spark, and the outcome is very predictable. “It just happened” didn’t really. ;-)
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Post by shamwow on Mar 19, 2019 20:19:46 GMT -5
It is the thermo nuclear option. If your partner finds out they immediately occupy the moral high ground. Your reasons for straying become null and void and they get to dictate the divorce. Or even worse, the rest of your sorry life. In my humble opinion In my case I stayed for 20 years and never cheated. It was a bait and switch from "I Do" There is no "high moral ground" to be had. Sure my family knows the truth of the SM but the ex and I told the kids we had just "drifted apart". Son was 13 at the time so I saw no need to give real reasons. My daughter turns 19 this year and I suspect I'll fill her in sometime soon. But it isn't like I lead into that discussion with "your mom is a lying piece of shit." The kids love both of us, and that is good (even though mom IS a lying piece of shit lol). If I'd cheated, it wouldn't have been the end of the world, but would have likely affected ME more than anyone else. In other words I would have lost the moral high ground with myself. Not particularly satisfying, though. I am glad I did it the way I did, though. Realize it's over and make arrangements to leave. Keep things amicable for the kids sake. And then get out. In the end, that decision literally saved my life. Maybe an affair would have given me the things baza outlined. Maybe not. I'm just grateful beyond words to be out and was ready for the next chapter in my life with a little ballofconfusion.
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Post by shamwow on Mar 19, 2019 20:25:25 GMT -5
It is not in my nature to outsource however I have considered it at times. I think there are good reasons to outsource, which is something I never thought I would say. But the unpredictability is, in my mind, NOT worth it. I think people that want another sexual relationship going before ending their marriage need to take a look at the whole "does it stand on its own" thing in terms of making this change. For example I have endometriosis. One common symptom is pain during sex. I have never had that symptom. However, I have not had sex in 9 years. Could that have changed? Maybe I will get divorced and finally have sex and find out that sex hurts me?! Maybe I should outsource and find out? If sex hurts maybe I should stay married and sexless?? (This could be the same argument as "maybe I will never find someone so I should stay"). But this is where it is SO important to ask if the decision to leave stands up on its own. My marriage is a lonely desert of no intimacy. While our friendship is nice I do not want to be in this marriage as it is. I would prefer to be alone and sexless than in this lonely marriage. The case to leave stands up EVEN IF I do not end up in a great sexual relationship. So, IMO, do the assessment of the relationship and decide to stay or go based on the current relationship. (FWIW, if you are curious, in my case I both seriously doubt sex will hurt (I do have toys afterall) and also believe that even if PIV sex hurts at times I can get pretty creative to both aleviate that and still have intimacy. I tell patients all the time that gynecological problems can be managed to not be a barrier to a good sex life and I 100% believe this!) Excellent answer!
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Post by baza on Mar 19, 2019 20:39:05 GMT -5
The "moral highground" is illusionary in my opinion. I am pretty sure Brother ironhamster cheated, I am pretty sure that Brother endthegame didn't. And they both seem like pretty good ethical sorts of blokes to me...without one having a more *right* position than the other. Personally I don't think any less (or more) of either of the esteemed Brothers. They made their (different) choices, then owned their choice and lived their choice - and that, I have tremendous respect for.
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