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Post by greatcoastal on Mar 5, 2019 10:11:32 GMT -5
I'll follow that up with my take on the "she doesn't love you" argument. I understand it and I have felt it. However, I don't think it's fair to a partner or spouse to dictate all the terms of love. We can't dictate how anyone feels, can we? I do think it is possible, though, to develop an understanding of what the other person feels, though. What my ex would define as "love," I would call "control." You are in a better place than the rest of us to determine what your wife means by "love." It is well worth your time to understand what she is thinking. When someone tells you after getting married, " I know marriage gives you the right to sharing your body with mine, but.....I refuse to share mine with you, and you have to accept it. " (take it or leave it) What seems to be missing is the " take it or leave it" aspect. Those words are not spoken. For me, when someone gives me an ultimatum like that, I find it arrogant and condescending. In fact it makes it even easier to say , " no thank you! I'll go somewhere else." Kind of like buying a car. You liked the style the make, and the year. It was overpriced, but you figured " surely the price would come down some." Everyone expects their to be some negotiating. But then they start upping the price even more by listing all these dealer fees. Dealer fees are like manipulative control from a refuser. You are expected to do all the compromising. They are dictating how you are supposed to feel, because you think you "love" that car. Meanwhile, down the street at another dealer is the same make, model, and color, only it's lower priced, less miles and two years newer, with no added fees, They will even lower the price! I've experienced this , I think we all have. The hardest part is " are you willing to take the risk? To wait ? It's also like putting more quarters in the empty coke machine. Are you willing to go find another machine?
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Post by lessingham on Mar 5, 2019 11:26:27 GMT -5
I believe she loves me but she does not think anything flows from that. She knows I hate driving but has never learned to drive to share that burden. She divorces love and sex, one does not necessitate the other. She will not do a thing to help me. As for sex.... Either she tells the truth when she says it is just not that important to her or she refuses to look deeper. Here is my take, gleaned over the years. Her dad was a controlling miserable bastard who bullied her. She fears and hates male authority figures. She misdirected him down the wrong street, aged 15, and he hit her so hard he knocked her tooth out. Why she ever spoke to him again once she left home is a mystery. She says she fears I will hit her, although I have never lifted a finger even when she hit me in public. When she was little, 6 or 8?, he had an affair and her mother kicked him out of the marriage bed. The mother took my wife to bed with her as "protection" so he could not get into the bed the have sex. I imagine him angry and wheeldling at the door and a terrified child between two truely fucked up adults. My wife refuses to have therapy so whether this is me adding up one and onevto get five, who knows.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 5, 2019 11:35:04 GMT -5
Lessinghsm said “My wife refuses to have therapy so whether this is me adding up one and onevto get five, who knows.”
Whether or not you have found the why doesn’t change your sm because you can’t chsnge your wife. It is likely she has been very traumatized. Not your fault and not your problem to solve. If you want to why chase figure out why you picked such a damaged person and why you have chosen to stay with her so long when she has not been able to give you what you need to fulfill your desire for love. What do you get out of this relationship with her?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 17:15:44 GMT -5
tooyoungtobeold: " However, I don't think it's fair to a partner or spouse to dictate all the terms of love." True. But it is appropriate for a person to determine for themselves if their partners' actions make them feel loved. If sex is what makes one feel romantically loved, and your partner won't have sex with you, it doesn't matter if one's partner experiences love for you. You still don't feel loved. The two of you are not compatible romantic partners. I agree with you but it's a matter of degrees, not black/white. Sex does make me feel romantically loved but there are many other things too. It's not the ideal solution but it's working for me now.
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Post by caballotierra on Mar 5, 2019 22:02:51 GMT -5
northstarmom You make a lot of great points. Someone might just not be attracted, which decreases their desire for sex. And there are reasons why we stay in a SM. I stayed because I love my wife, always hoped she would change, and wanted to grow old together. And then once I started digging deeper during the separation, I realized that I was staying because I didn’t know how to speak up for myself, I wanted someone to take care of me, and I was afraid to be an assertive grown up. So that has been what I’m working on. I think it’s great advice to really dig and understand why we stay. I was compromising my values daily by lowering my standards enough to stay. It didn’t feel good to initiate the process; on the other hand, I feel like a much more connected person now.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Mar 5, 2019 22:40:38 GMT -5
jim44444 My ex is STILL sending me emails saying " no one will ever love you more than I do" I too thought it was arrogant and manipulative. I keep using those words.. Manipulative and narcissistic it really pisses him off.
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Post by smith227 on Mar 6, 2019 10:59:48 GMT -5
tooyoungtobeold: " However, I don't think it's fair to a partner or spouse to dictate all the terms of love." True. But it is appropriate for a person to determine for themselves if their partners' actions make them feel loved. If sex is what makes one feel romantically loved, and your partner won't have sex with you, it doesn't matter if one's partner experiences love for you. You still don't feel loved. The two of you are not compatible romantic partners. I agree with you but it's a matter of degrees, not black/white. Sex does make me feel romantically loved but there are many other things too. It's not the ideal solution but it's working for me now. It’s not always black and white. There are other reason we married these people. I can have fun with my husband. We have a very similar sense of humor and the ability to talk and bullshit together and it’s fun. However, everything stopped being fun when all the intimacy went out the window. I found myself obsessing and turning into something I despised. Since I found this place, and took back control of my own emotions bc I know it’s not me, I can sit around and joke with him again...and it’s fun. I’ve also taken to just calling a spade a spade. For example, I don’t fight with him anymore and I realize he misses that just last night. He was trying to push my buttons, and our fights usually consist of me eventually shitting on myself bc he’s a perfect person and I have all these pesky emotions that he has to put up with. I stopped the fight before it started last night and told him in no uncertain terms, that if he expected me to sit there and shit on myself he was dead wrong. That I liked myself and if he had a problem with me, he could leave and I wasn’t going to engage. I told him I was open to spending time with him, and having fun but had no interest in doing anything beyond just that. I’ve also taken to calling out the lack of sex and intimacy the same way I would talk about the weather. There’s no why chasing anymore, just exit plans and hope. I’ve only been on here a few months but I go back and read my old posts, and think I’m an idiot. The people on here are simply the best. Whether it’s harsh reality or warm support. You guys rock.
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 7, 2019 6:19:32 GMT -5
jim44444 My ex is STILL sending me emails saying " no one will ever love you more than I do" I too thought it was arrogant and manipulative. I keep using those words.. Manipulative and narcissistic it really pisses him off. My son and I were listening to the radio in the car and some pop song came on with words to that effect. I told him if anyone ever told him that, that it was a BIG RED FLAG. And that this person was not a good match. They are trying to make you think you are not worthy of even their love, and for sure no one else's. But also to remember that no woman will ever love him like his mom does ;-)
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