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Post by ironhamster on Mar 11, 2019 19:40:13 GMT -5
Oh my. Protect your online alternate identity.
I know that sounds weird coming from someone as flagrantly loose about his own identity, but I have nothing to lose by doing so.
Avoid using your own picture. Avoid using your common email. If you need to, use an old tablet computer that you keep at work and never bring home.
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Post by carl on Mar 12, 2019 7:04:19 GMT -5
My wife has complained bitterly recently that I have stopped asking (more like begging) her for sex. She has seldom ever initiated sex with me and in the past when she had the chance refused me 99 percent of the time. I am coming to terms with her understanding of a relationship and sex but sometimes I don’t dare think about it. My W got upset a while back when I did the same. I quit showing any physical interest in her, turned away or left the room if she changed in front of me, and stopped touching her anywhere other than hand holding. It ended up being a shock for her and prompted some changes in her behavior. I told her that if she wasn't going to start showing interest in our sex life then I wasn't going to bother taking an interest in her. There was no point in getting myself all worked up and turned on if it was only going to result in me being frustrated and feeling worse. She was upset because she liked the feeling of being desired by me and didn't know that by not following through, she was hurting me in ways she didn't understand. She is now at least considerate enough to understand my side of the issue. She doesn't flirt with me anymore if she knows that sex is off the table for some reason. She also is more aware that if I'm growing distant, the first question she should ask herself is: how long has it been since we last had sex. Well I didn’t even offer an explanation for why I stopped asking for sex. That in itself could sound like I was fishing for a response. I want to differentiate completely sex with somebody who is into me from somebody who isn’t. I know that women can so why on earth not my wife. I am not going to have sex with my wife until she stops denying her issues and pinning them on me. Stopping sex means that I don’t have to back down on every disagreement, agree with all her opinions and take the blame for all her problems. I don’t owe her because I have quit the deal. That makes life so much easier for me. To be able to decline her demands, which I do, has meant that she now has to treat me with the respect that she would give to somebody who does a great deal for her and not somebody to bargain with who desperately needs something from her which she keeps dangling on a string. Needless to say it has come as a big shock but that’s too bad.
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Post by isthisit on Mar 13, 2019 8:32:33 GMT -5
My W got upset a while back when I did the same. I quit showing any physical interest in her, turned away or left the room if she changed in front of me, and stopped touching her anywhere other than hand holding. It ended up being a shock for her and prompted some changes in her behavior. I told her that if she wasn't going to start showing interest in our sex life then I wasn't going to bother taking an interest in her. There was no point in getting myself all worked up and turned on if it was only going to result in me being frustrated and feeling worse. She was upset because she liked the feeling of being desired by me and didn't know that by not following through, she was hurting me in ways she didn't understand. She is now at least considerate enough to understand my side of the issue. She doesn't flirt with me anymore if she knows that sex is off the table for some reason. She also is more aware that if I'm growing distant, the first question she should ask herself is: how long has it been since we last had sex. Well I didn’t even offer an explanation for why I stopped asking for sex. That in itself could sound like I was fishing for a response. I want to differentiate completely sex with somebody who is into me from somebody who isn’t. I know that women can so why on earth not my wife. I am not going to have sex with my wife until she stops denying her issues and pinning them on me. Stopping sex means that I don’t have to back down on every disagreement, agree with all her opinions and take the blame for all her problems. I don’t owe her because I have quit the deal. That makes life so much easier for me. To be able to decline her demands, which I do, has meant that she now has to treat me with the respect that she would give to somebody who does a great deal for her and not somebody to bargain with who desperately needs something from her which she keeps dangling on a string. Needless to say it has come as a big shock but that’s too bad. Guys, I am truly sorry to hear of your circumstances. Despite reading this site for quite a while now, I still have the capacity to be shocked by the insights into the world's of others. I have no understanding of the behaviours of your spouses at all. It must be completely miserable to have to invest so much mental energy into these strategies within your relationships. I can only hope that the presence here of women with very different needs and wishes for intimacy and sex gives you optimism and confidence for your futures should you ever choose to exit your deals.
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Post by flashjohn on Mar 13, 2019 13:04:16 GMT -5
The statistics relevant to this ILIASM group are that a "turned around ILIASM deal" occurs about 1 time in 230. That is a rate of a bit under one half of one percent. If you are in this group and are harboring any ambitions of turning your deal around, the odds are not in your favour. Wow, that is 0.00434783 %. And those of us who actually escaped a sexless marriage are even more rare.
I understand and respect the people who have resolved to stay, but I am so glad I didn't. I lost three decades to my abusive refuser and I am so glad I got away from her.
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Post by baza on Mar 13, 2019 17:30:39 GMT -5
Actually Brother flashjohn , "those who escaped" are way more common than "those who turned their deal around". Something like 1 in 22 (or 04.454%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by leaving it. Whereas there's something like 1 in 230 (or 00.435%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by turnaround.
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Post by ironhamster on Mar 13, 2019 20:15:09 GMT -5
Well I didn’t even offer an explanation for why I stopped asking for sex. That in itself could sound like I was fishing for a response. I want to differentiate completely sex with somebody who is into me from somebody who isn’t. I know that women can so why on earth not my wife. I am not going to have sex with my wife until she stops denying her issues and pinning them on me. Stopping sex means that I don’t have to back down on every disagreement, agree with all her opinions and take the blame for all her problems. I don’t owe her because I have quit the deal. That makes life so much easier for me. To be able to decline her demands, which I do, has meant that she now has to treat me with the respect that she would give to somebody who does a great deal for her and not somebody to bargain with who desperately needs something from her which she keeps dangling on a string. Needless to say it has come as a big shock but that’s too bad. Guys, I am truly sorry to hear of your circumstances. Despite reading this site for quite a while now, I still have the capacity to be shocked by the insights into the world's of others. I have no understanding of the behaviours of your spouses at all. It must be completely miserable to have to invest so much mental energy into these strategies within your relationships. I can only hope that the presence here of women with very different needs and wishes for intimacy and sex gives you optimism and confidence for your futures should you ever choose to exit your deals. Optimism is well placed for everyone that leaves. The odds of a member fixing their sexless marriage is very slim compared to the odds of finding a better partner if they leave. This, and the many other forums dealing with our marriage issues, are not intended as a dating service, but, we have common problems and common interests, so it is safe to expect that people will meet, and perhaps hook up, and perhaps develop deeper relationships.
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Post by flashjohn on Mar 14, 2019 15:44:08 GMT -5
Actually Brother flashjohn , "those who escaped" are way more common than "those who turned their deal around". Something like 1 in 22 (or 04.454%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by leaving it. Whereas there's something like 1 in 230 (or 00.435%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by turnaround. That is very sad, but not surprising. I read an article once by a marriage therapist that when a couple is sexually incompatible, the marriage is unsalvageable.
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Post by flashjohn on Mar 14, 2019 15:45:36 GMT -5
Optimism is well placed for everyone that leaves. The odds of a member fixing their sexless marriage is very slim compared to the odds of finding a better partner if they leave. This, and the many other forums dealing with our marriage issues, are not intended as a dating service, but, we have common problems and common interests, so it is safe to expect that people will meet, and perhaps hook up, and perhaps develop deeper relationships. That is very true. The women here are exceptional.
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Post by h on Mar 15, 2019 8:41:42 GMT -5
Actually Brother flashjohn , "those who escaped" are way more common than "those who turned their deal around". Something like 1 in 22 (or 04.454%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by leaving it. Whereas there's something like 1 in 230 (or 00.435%) who resolve their ILIASM deal by turnaround. That is very sad, but not surprising. I read an article once by a marriage therapist that when a couple is sexually incompatible, the marriage is unsalvageable. You have a link to the article?
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Post by flashjohn on Mar 15, 2019 13:31:23 GMT -5
That is very sad, but not surprising. I read an article once by a marriage therapist that when a couple is sexually incompatible, the marriage is unsalvageable. You have a link to the article? This one is very similar...
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Post by baza on Mar 15, 2019 18:24:07 GMT -5
I think that a lot of times in this group we confuse "cause" and "effect".
Here's an example. Your spouse engages in reckless spending thus causing financial trauma to the marriage and you. Given a bit of time, this is going to drive a big wedge between the spouses, and unaddressed it is going to really piss you off. Eventually to a point where you lose respect for them and their actions. It is all but inevitable that your feelings for the reckless spender are going to wane as they trash the financial aspects of the relationship. And, you are not real likely to find them an attractive person generally, let alone sexually, so consequently the sex will reduce then stop.
Oftentimes, people arrive here in the above scenario saying "the problem in my marriage is that the sex has stopped".
What's actually happened is that the reckless spending was the "cause" of the disharmony, and the cessation of sex was the "effect".
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Post by h on Mar 18, 2019 7:56:04 GMT -5
My W got upset a while back when I did the same. I quit showing any physical interest in her, turned away or left the room if she changed in front of me, and stopped touching her anywhere other than hand holding. It ended up being a shock for her and prompted some changes in her behavior. I told her that if she wasn't going to start showing interest in our sex life then I wasn't going to bother taking an interest in her. There was no point in getting myself all worked up and turned on if it was only going to result in me being frustrated and feeling worse. She was upset because she liked the feeling of being desired by me and didn't know that by not following through, she was hurting me in ways she didn't understand. She is now at least considerate enough to understand my side of the issue. She doesn't flirt with me anymore if she knows that sex is off the table for some reason. She also is more aware that if I'm growing distant, the first question she should ask herself is: how long has it been since we last had sex. Well I didn’t even offer an explanation for why I stopped asking for sex. That in itself could sound like I was fishing for a response. I want to differentiate completely sex with somebody who is into me from somebody who isn’t. I know that women can so why on earth not my wife. I am not going to have sex with my wife until she stops denying her issues and pinning them on me. Stopping sex means that I don’t have to back down on every disagreement, agree with all her opinions and take the blame for all her problems. I don’t owe her because I have quit the deal. That makes life so much easier for me. To be able to decline her demands, which I do, has meant that she now has to treat me with the respect that she would give to somebody who does a great deal for her and not somebody to bargain with who desperately needs something from her which she keeps dangling on a string. Needless to say it has come as a big shock but that’s too bad. I never offered the explanation. She demanded the explanation. I originally just made my decision to change my behavior and the consequence was that she became unhappy, resulting in her initiating communication on the subject. If I had brought it up, it would have seemed like I was fishing for a response. I got the response without the fishing.
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Post by Handy on Mar 18, 2019 16:10:06 GMT -5
H and Carl, I am going to give my opinion. I think you both should have given a very limited response that indicated physical touches stopped because you were frustrated about the low sexual activity in the M and then never responded again. No restating your opinions or discussing the issue. Say the ball was in her court and walk away.
Not giving your W a response puts her in the position of trying to be a mind reader and we should all know that isn't a common skill among humans.
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Post by northstarmom on Mar 18, 2019 16:35:10 GMT -5
I agree with handy. But, if you want to end your marriages, the stonewalling you're doing will hasten the end....
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Post by h on Mar 18, 2019 22:13:33 GMT -5
I agree with handy. But, if you want to end your marriages, the stonewalling you're doing will hasten the end.... I don't see my actions as stonewalling. Quite the opposite actually. She asked me to explain my change in behavior and I did so honestly and directly. No making her try to read my mind. No hints or vague comments that could be misunderstood.
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