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Post by isthisit on Jan 23, 2019 9:01:30 GMT -5
Thanks baza I am interested in everyone’s assumption that I plan to divorce. I haven’t said that at all. I simply asked my H for a separation. This does not at all imply a temporary measure, I wouldn’t put myself, him or our children through the upcoming pain only to return to the SM status quo. Our separation will be final- but a split of assets and living arrangements is currently my only goal. As far as I am concerned I do not need a divorce to pursue other relationships and much needed sexual activity. This may come with time, but I can’t see my wanting to remarry anytime soon. The upside of not seeking a legal view just now is that this would cause my H some pain I think and he is having a hard enough time of it as it is. He told me that I had been a ‘perfect in every way wife’ and he is traumatised that his future looks different than he had assumed. If I wish for a legal view, I could well suggest that we go together. He is the father of my children and has never given me cause to doubt his integrity, and I think he deserves some sensitivity and respect. Maybe I will regret this decision, but it feels right and I ‘trust my guy’ . Does that answer your question? Could you elaborate on how leaving the situation in a state of limbo spares him (or anyone else) pain rather than simply dragging it out? I am happy to answer your question shamwow (or anyone else’s) but I am not sure what you refer to with the ‘in limbo’ thing?
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Post by shamwow on Jan 23, 2019 11:07:36 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on how leaving the situation in a state of limbo spares him (or anyone else) pain rather than simply dragging it out? I am happy to answer your question shamwow (or anyone else’s) but I am not sure what you refer to with the ‘in limbo’ thing? Sorry, I probably should have been more specific. What I mean to say is that you are just looking for a separation. Not a temporary one, but a permanent one so as not to send misleading signals. You wish to do this not to hurt him (an admirable goal). However, this seems to me to be putting everyone in a state of uncertainty (limbo). You're leaving. You're able to date and do things you want to. That is well and good, but seems to deprive everyone else (and you too, truth be told) a sense of finality. Basically, you're leaving, but there are no fixed rules. For my family, this would have been a train wreck. For yours, perhaps it is different. Just like it's impossible to be half-pregnant, it is impossible to be half-married. You are either in or out. Anything else is simply a state of limbo. One additional question. What does your husband think of this proposed arrangement, obstensively being set up to salve his feelings?
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Post by h on Jan 23, 2019 11:16:29 GMT -5
Another thought: separated is not divorced. If you plan on dating while separated, you may want to see a lawyer first in case "infidelity" can be used against you if your husband decides to seek divorce after you move separate. You need to check on how that would affect a possible divorce in your jurisdiction.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 23, 2019 11:32:57 GMT -5
"Thanks baza I am interested in everyone’s assumption that I plan to divorce. I haven’t said that at all. I simply asked my H for a separation. This does not at all imply a temporary measure, I wouldn’t put myself, him or our children through the upcoming pain only to return to the SM status quo. Our separation will be final- but a split of assets and living arrangements is currently my only goal. As far as I am concerned I do not need a divorce to pursue other relationships and much needed sexual activity. This may come with time, but I can’t see my wanting to remarry anytime soon. "
In some jurisdictions, moving out of a spousal home is considered abandonment if there isn't a legal separation.
I don't understand the point of a permanent separation with division of property and each spouse's doing whatever they want for romance. How is that less confusing and hurtful than a divorce? Two of my uncles did this but they did this because they wanted an excuse not to marry again. Their wives felt the same way about not wanting to marry again. I suppose that people would do this, too, if they are adherents to a religion that believes marriage is for life.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 23, 2019 12:16:08 GMT -5
Another thought: separated is not divorced. If you plan on dating while separated, you may want to see a lawyer first in case "infidelity" can be used against you if your husband decides to seek divorce after you move separate. You need to check on how that would affect a possible divorce in your jurisdiction. Also without a legal date of separation he could spend like crazy and you'd be on the hook for half when he decides to divorce YOU. It doesn't matter whose name debt is in, if you're not legally divorced or legally separated you are still considered married and on the hook for half.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 23, 2019 13:14:23 GMT -5
I thought I would chime in with some random thoughts about ' separation'.
My FIL. ( Now passed away, lived with me and my then W for 12 yrs) took the separation route. They where both in their 70's. kids grown, and some 30 grandkids, and great grandkids.
He basically left with his suitcase, leaving his W with everything.
The family, son and daughters, got all involved in making sure their mom (the W.) had very little say in the finances. Bank accounts, 401k, etc... all moved and separated.
The 'family' took sides and detached themselves from the W as much as possible. The detachment continues against the W, after grandpa's death.
They both seemed to agree to it. remaining in married name only, yet the family treated them as divorced.
My own parents seperated for a few years decades ago. Dad went to live in a retirement home, mom was manic depressive/ bi-polar and out of control. My sister and I lived hundreds of miles away and where basically kept in the dark from their decisions.
Dad was happy, mom was happy. Years later , in dad's final days, he moved back in with mom. She insisted on looking after him, and had calmed down considerably from her bi-polar. Dad passed away in the hospital, Mom passed away years later in a retirement home.
Their are lots of different separation stories out there, and how they affect families. Some couples ( like my parents) never even get near what their legal rights are ,or would have been.
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Post by isthisit on Jan 23, 2019 14:44:21 GMT -5
I am happy to answer your question shamwow (or anyone else’s) but I am not sure what you refer to with the ‘in limbo’ thing? Sorry, I probably should have been more specific. What I mean to say is that you are just looking for a separation. Not a temporary one, but a permanent one so as not to send misleading signals. You wish to do this not to hurt him (an admirable goal). However, this seems to me to be putting everyone in a state of uncertainty (limbo). You're leaving. You're able to date and do things you want to. That is well and good, but seems to deprive everyone else (and you too, truth be told) a sense of finality. Basically, you're leaving, but there are no fixed rules. For my family, this would have been a train wreck. For yours, perhaps it is different. Just like it's impossible to be half-pregnant, it is impossible to be half-married. You are either in or out. Anything else is simply a state of limbo. One additional question. What does your husband think of this proposed arrangement, obstensively being set up to salve his feelings? Hello, thanks for the questions. I am here on ILIASM because I value the perspectives and experience here, so all of the comments are welcome and valuable to me for consideration. At the moment I am more comfortable with separation as this feels a more gentle approach to parting than the finality of divorce. At the moment if I went under a bus the day after we took up separate residences H would nevertheless be entitled to many financial benefits in line with this and I would welcome him benefitting in this way as we have been great financial partners from the very beginning of our relationship. It may well be that in time I would welcome the finality of a divorce but at the moment I see more disadvantages than advantages to this course of action. What would I gain other than the option to re marry, and I can’t see that in the near future. I also think going straight to divorce would be additionally hurtful to H who has already told me that he plans to continue wearing his wedding ring and referring to me as his wife rather than ex wife. I am okay with this if it helps him manage the transition. Of course in time he may change his mind (as might I) and that’s okay too. Should I fall madly in love and wish to remarry I just cannot see him preventing me from this. He is a really nice man, and our split is a no fault situation, so while accepting this could possibly go royally tits up (as every choice carries potential disadvantages) I am okay with this right now. Your last question- how does H feel? Difficult to say as he is struggling to accept my wish to leave. I doubt he would prefer the finality of divorce, but if he did I would proceed with his without question if it was helpful for him. Does this answer your query?
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Post by isthisit on Jan 23, 2019 14:50:19 GMT -5
Another thought: separated is not divorced. If you plan on dating while separated, you may want to see a lawyer first in case "infidelity" can be used against you if your husband decides to seek divorce after you move separate. You need to check on how that would affect a possible divorce in your jurisdiction. Also without a legal date of separation he could spend like crazy and you'd be on the hook for half when he decides to divorce YOU. It doesn't matter whose name debt is in, if you're not legally divorced or legally separated you are still considered married and on the hook for half. Yes he could- but I would be astounded if he did. He has always acted with honesty and integrity and he deserves the respect due to him in this matter. I imagine he would be grossly offended if I safeguarded myself against behaviour which would be wholly out of character with a man I have shared my life with for nearly a quarter of a century. (All of these characteristics apply to me too in reverse and H trust me implicitly too). Thanks for looking out for me though, and I accept that there is some level of risk here. If my decisions come back to bite me on the bum, I won’t hesitate to get back on here to ‘fess up as a warning to others!
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Post by isthisit on Jan 23, 2019 14:58:19 GMT -5
northstarmom : In some jurisdictions, moving out of a spousal home is considered abandonment if there isn't a legal separation. I don’t think this applies where I live. I think a legal separation (as defined by separate addresses) is required prior to divorce anyway. I don't understand the point of a permanent separation with division of property and each spouse's doing whatever they want for romance. How is that less confusing and hurtful than a divorce? I am only really interested in what is morally acceptable in relation to new relationships. What paper arrangement is in place is irrelevant to me. I suppose that people would do this, too, if they are adherents to a religion that believes marriage is for life. Religion plays no part in the lives of either of us, so this point is not relevant to our situation.
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Post by baza on Jan 23, 2019 16:52:39 GMT -5
In my deal Sister isthisit , things went like this ... I had taken legal advice about divorcing in 2005 I actually left in 2009. We started negotiating the split of assets in about mid 2010. One of my legal options was to handle the split of assets under what is (in my jurisdiction) called a Binding Financial Agreement (BFA). That was what we did ... under our individual legal advice. There was no compelling reason to divorce at that time. My missus was reviewing her postion in 2013 in respect to her financial position and realised that I was still nominated as her executor and beneficiary of her will. So under her own legal advice she revised her will (cutting me out) and figured "might as well finalise the divorce too". The court rubber stamped it, charged us about $200 for so doing. Foot Note - just as well too as she died suddenly and unexpectedly in 2015. I can see your logic in how you are proceeding Sister isthisit . I did much the same - but - I did it ON THE ADVICE OF MY LAWYER - and it was all stitched up tight.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 23, 2019 16:55:34 GMT -5
Sorry, I probably should have been more specific. What I mean to say is that you are just looking for a separation. Not a temporary one, but a permanent one so as not to send misleading signals. You wish to do this not to hurt him (an admirable goal). However, this seems to me to be putting everyone in a state of uncertainty (limbo). You're leaving. You're able to date and do things you want to. That is well and good, but seems to deprive everyone else (and you too, truth be told) a sense of finality. Basically, you're leaving, but there are no fixed rules. For my family, this would have been a train wreck. For yours, perhaps it is different. Just like it's impossible to be half-pregnant, it is impossible to be half-married. You are either in or out. Anything else is simply a state of limbo. One additional question. What does your husband think of this proposed arrangement, obstensively being set up to salve his feelings? Hello, thanks for the questions. I am here on ILIASM because I value the perspectives and experience here, so all of the comments are welcome and valuable to me for consideration. At the moment I am more comfortable with separation as this feels a more gentle approach to parting than the finality of divorce. At the moment if I went under a bus the day after we took up separate residences H would nevertheless be entitled to many financial benefits in line with this and I would welcome him benefitting in this way as we have been great financial partners from the very beginning of our relationship. It may well be that in time I would welcome the finality of a divorce but at the moment I see more disadvantages than advantages to this course of action. What would I gain other than the option to re marry, and I can’t see that in the near future. I also think going straight to divorce would be additionally hurtful to H who has already told me that he plans to continue wearing his wedding ring and referring to me as his wife rather than ex wife. I am okay with this if it helps him manage the transition. Of course in time he may change his mind (as might I) and that’s okay too. Should I fall madly in love and wish to remarry I just cannot see him preventing me from this. He is a really nice man, and our split is a no fault situation, so while accepting this could possibly go royally tits up (as every choice carries potential disadvantages) I am okay with this right now. Your last question- how does H feel? Difficult to say as he is struggling to accept my wish to leave. I doubt he would prefer the finality of divorce, but if he did I would proceed with his without question if it was helpful for him. Does this answer your query? Fair enough. I would quibble a bit over the last part, though. It might be better to have a conversation regarding his preference rather than assuming for such a life altering decision. Just my opinion though.
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Post by Handy on Jan 23, 2019 22:10:21 GMT -5
Shamwow, I think that once a legal separation is filed, each spouse is responsible for their own future debts. Before the legal separation in some cases each spouse is liable for all debts if the other spouse does not pay.
This information is based on reading a forum of mostly women that were or are divorcing. Some did the separation first and then moved to divorce.
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Post by workingonit on Jan 23, 2019 22:19:11 GMT -5
We have talked about legal separation. It feels a little like trying on divorce. I think for my h the idea felt like maybe we could come back around to each other after some time apart.
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Post by baza on Jan 23, 2019 23:34:34 GMT -5
We have talked about legal separation. It feels a little like trying on divorce. I think for my h the idea felt like maybe we could come back around to each other after some time apart. Does my post (above) concerning a B.F.A. help any ? I'll put it up as a fresh thread.
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Post by isthisit on Jan 23, 2019 23:48:30 GMT -5
We have talked about legal separation. It feels a little like trying on divorce. I think for my h the idea felt like maybe we could come back around to each other after some time apart. Does my post (above) concerning a B.F.A. help any ? I'll put it up as a fresh thread. I am unsure whether legal separation is a thing in my jurisdiction. This is one of the reasons to visit a lawyer I imagine you would respond! Perhaps when H has come to terms with the idea we will visit a lawyer together. Thanks everyone for their time and energy on this.
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