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Post by hopingforachange on Feb 4, 2019 20:00:25 GMT -5
I'm beginning to believe mine has turned around. But it took me being willing to end it. There was no bluff, I was going to move into the basement and start the process. But she wanted to go thru counseling and I was willing to give her a chance to change.
Now, it hasn't been easy on my part either, there were things that I needed to fix as well.
The sex life is ok, I don't ever think it will be as adventurous as I want it to be. There is love and intimacy on the touch and it is not starfish or zombie sex
My marriage was in the better end of the spectrum when I joined, there was sex happening but it's she was doing it out of a wife's duty. It was on the same level as needing to mop the kitchen floor.
For those that are reading this and hoping it could be me, and hoping your marriage can turn around to. You need to know that, your partner needed to decided that they need to change. You can't make them, they have to choose to change, this is not something you can make happen in your own. The only thing you can do is decided, you are done with the status quo and lay your cards on the table for your partner to see. Don't even think about bluffing, they will call that hand and take the pot.
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Post by angeleyes65 on Feb 14, 2019 11:38:31 GMT -5
Over the years (EP and now this group) I have not seen too many stories along the lines - "I am in an ILIASM deal but it is turning around"or "I was in an ILIASM deal but turned it around"There have been such posts that I recall - credible ones too - but boy are they rare. I can recall a few, erring on the plus side, mebbe 10 (over the past 9 years). Another type of story seldom seen is a post along the lines - "I got out of my ILIASM deal and it was a really bad choice which has made me even unhappier"These are REALLY rare. I can't actually remember seeing one. Have you sighted any of these rare posts ? Most everyone I was closest to on EP myself and my bf included left our marriages and are happy. Everyone had there reset sex story but none lasted more than a couple of weeks. I think part of the reason you don't hear too many turn around stories is the resentment eventually makes it to where you no longer care to fix it. Things are so awkward.
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Post by Caris on Nov 3, 2019 19:38:43 GMT -5
I read some of Caris posts and got the idea she had a bit too many negative outlooks on life. Was that her nature or did her situation spin her posts to reflect things were better but not all that good? I read people's stories and mentally place myself in their position and their refuser's position. Is each side realistic, is each side wanting too much or not enough and so on. I don't think if i was in a relationship with Caris it would have worked. I know two good people do not always work together. No reflection on Caris, but that is my take on the little I read about her. At first reading Caris's posts, I thought I might mentally have been a fit but in the end I had my doubts. I was hoping we could help each other on the forum because something clicked with me in the beginning, then I recognized it wasn't going to happen. Again was it her situation or something else. BTW,when I read about new paradise relationships I sometimes mentally in my mind for myself, put the brakes on those relationships because people tend to be in the honeymoon phase and limerance adds to the excitement with the new partner, especially because the old relationship was so devoid of joy and pleasure. I always hope the new, hot relationship continues.
Don't get me wrong, I really like to hear how happy people become when they meet a compatible partner. I like happy stories, so keep sharing your happy stories.
It was my situation. It’s always been my situation, although I’m a very deep thinker, and feel great empathy for those who suffer. I don’t know you, but you are right about one thing...we would have not clicked.
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Post by Handy on Nov 3, 2019 19:53:12 GMT -5
Caris, if it was the situation, I understand. Sometimes when I read a person's story I compare it to what I like or don't like. My comments were more along the lines of would this person be happy with my lifestyle? I live a rather common existence and have been asked "how are things in Dullsville?" In the past I have backed out of relationships or friendships where I thought I couldn't measure up to the other persons spending level or their energy level. I didn't want to be the boat anchor in the relationship.
I try not to hurt anyone's feelings so I apologize if I said something that was offensive.
I hope your life has improved in the past year or so. I haven't seen you around for a while so I will say, "nice hearing from you" and let us know how you are doing.
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Post by Caris on Nov 3, 2019 20:53:34 GMT -5
Handy, there is nothing wrong with being an “anchor.” Where would we be without the anchors in our lives? Adrift. Thank you for the apology. Be well.
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Post by lessingham on Nov 4, 2019 5:30:10 GMT -5
Being slightly contravercial, god I wish I could spell, it could be like curing homosexuality. If it is your genes or so deeply buried in your persona, turning from an asexual to sexually actice is a no hoper. If it is that your partner is pissed with your or needs therapy to overcome issues then maybe a sexless marriage can work.
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Post by baza on Nov 4, 2019 6:04:19 GMT -5
I can't see any good reason why a sexless marriage, mutually agreed by the two people, couldn't be a roaring success.
By the same token, I can't see a sexless marriage, where one of the people has forced it to be so, resulting in anything but a huge fuck up.
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Post by csl on Nov 4, 2019 8:23:36 GMT -5
I can't see any good reason why a sexless marriage, mutually agreed by the two people, couldn't be a roaring success. By the same token, I can't see a sexless marriage, where one of the people has forced it to be so, resulting in anything but a huge fuck up. As I've said on my blog, a happy marriage isn't decided by one vote. And, yes, I get that sightings of turned-arounded ILIASMs are rarer that unicorn eggs, but that's the nature of the ILIASM beast, isn't it. ILIASM isn't a marital hospital, it is a marital hospice. I'm not knocking ILIASM; after all, hospices have their place in medical care, and ILIASM has its place. The only thing that I would caution is that, just as not all diseases are fatal, that it is recognized that not all sexless marriages are beyond hope.
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 4, 2019 10:37:53 GMT -5
I can't see any good reason why a sexless marriage, mutually agreed by the two people, couldn't be a roaring success. By the same token, I can't see a sexless marriage, where one of the people has forced it to be so, resulting in anything but a huge fuck up. Fair enough. In almost any celibate marriage, one of the partners has made the choice to stick while avoiding the sex that they don't want with their partner. It's feasible that there could be partnerships where both sides don't want sex with their partner, and who each value the continuation of their shared household and future.
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Post by baza on Nov 6, 2019 18:02:01 GMT -5
I can't see any good reason why a sexless marriage, mutually agreed by the two people, couldn't be a roaring success. By the same token, I can't see a sexless marriage, where one of the people has forced it to be so, resulting in anything but a huge fuck up. As I've said on my blog, a happy marriage isn't decided by one vote. And, yes, I get that sightings of turned-arounded ILIASMs are rarer that unicorn eggs, but that's the nature of the ILIASM beast, isn't it. ILIASM isn't a marital hospital, it is a marital hospice. I'm not knocking ILIASM; after all, hospices have their place in medical care, and ILIASM has its place. The only thing that I would caution is that, just as not all diseases are fatal, that it is recognized that not all sexless marriages are beyond hope. I think what you say about not *all* sexless marriages being beyond hope is perfectly true Brother csl . Although they are pretty rare, there are stories in here where turnarounds have happened ( eg Brother timeforliving2 ) and such stories are notable because of their scarcity. But, are you saying that the members here "automatically" take a position that the aggrieved spouse ought to leave ? I would dispute that position (if that's what you are saying - and my apologies if you ain't). I think for the most part, members read the story offered up, and make their observations on what the narrative says. Unfortunately the type of stories that filter down to this group are a pretty sorry lot, for the most part.
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Post by csl on Nov 6, 2019 22:30:26 GMT -5
As I've said on my blog, a happy marriage isn't decided by one vote. And, yes, I get that sightings of turned-arounded ILIASMs are rarer that unicorn eggs, but that's the nature of the ILIASM beast, isn't it. ILIASM isn't a marital hospital, it is a marital hospice. I'm not knocking ILIASM; after all, hospices have their place in medical care, and ILIASM has its place. The only thing that I would caution is that, just as not all diseases are fatal, that it is recognized that not all sexless marriages are beyond hope. I think what you say about not *all* sexless marriages being beyond hope is perfectly true Brother csl . Although they are pretty rare, there are stories in here where turnarounds have happened ( eg Brother timeforliving2 ) and such stories are notable because of their scarcity. But, are you saying that the members here "automatically" take a position that the aggrieved spouse ought to leave ? I would dispute that position (if that's what you are saying - and my apologies if you ain't). I think for the most part, members read the story offered up, and make their observations on what the narrative says. Unfortunately the type of stories that filter down to this group are a pretty sorry lot, for the most part. Automatically? No, but they are massaged in that direction, aren't they, with ILIASM shibboleths? "S/he just doesn't want to f*ck you." "You can't make someone want to f*ck you." "Refusers can't change." I'm willing to bet that there is a better than a 100, maybe even 500, to 1 ration of statements about getting legal advice vs. getting marriage counseling. Yes, ILIASM members do make observations, but as I said in a post above, ILIASM is its own bubble, and its denizens do have a common experience that powers the "shared wisdom" of ILIASM. Unfortunately, while it is the "shared wisdom" of a narrowly drawn clientele, it isn't an omniscient wisdom. Nor is this wisdom objective, but due to common experience, it is jaundiced in its outlook. That said, I do agree with you about the stories that get filtered down to ILIASM, hence my hospice analogy.
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Post by ScottDinTN on Nov 6, 2019 22:47:36 GMT -5
I hear some mention EP. What is it?
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Post by Apocrypha on Nov 6, 2019 22:54:42 GMT -5
Automatically? No, but they are massaged in that direction, aren't they, with ILIASM shibboleths? "S/he just doesn't want to f*ck you." "You can't make someone want to f*ck you." "Refusers can't change." I'm willing to bet that there is a better than a 100, maybe even 500, to 1 ration of statements about getting legal advice vs. getting marriage counseling. Yes, ILIASM members do make observations, but as I said in a post above, ILIASM is its own bubble, and its denizens do have a common experience that powers the "shared wisdom" of ILIASM. Unfortunately, while it is the "shared wisdom" of a narrowly drawn clientele, it isn't an omniscient wisdom. Nor is this wisdom objective, but due to common experience, it is jaundiced in its outlook. That said, I do agree with you about the stories that get filtered down to ILIASM, hence my hospice analogy. A shibboleth is a password (somewhat meaningless on its own) that is used primarily to signal "in group" status to others in one's "tribe".' For example, the public excoriation of "check your privilege" is sometimes posed as a shibboleth used by people who are invested in identity politics, in a public display. The responses, "I will try to do better" or "I will educate myself" are the only acceptable responses to that shibboleth that will denote membership in the in group. Anything outside that will fail the purity test and invoke a consequence. I don't really see the paraphrases you've offered above as qualifying in content or result as a shibboleth. Nor do I really see a point being established on an anonymous Internet forum that anyone's view is "omniscient wisdom", which seems you be your own characterization of other peoples' intent. It's a discussion forum. People offer points and observations for contention, and they discuss. I don't particularly agree with much of what I see posed on this forum about "asexuality" for example, and I tend to raise the importance of empathy in understanding the scale of and nature of the problem. I say my bit about that, offer my support, and ask questions designed to provoke consideration, or to challenge assumptions. But here, I'm seeing this played back to me as if it's something everyone says here. No, that's not my experience at all.
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Post by h on Nov 6, 2019 23:34:31 GMT -5
I hear some mention EP. What is it? Older site called "Experience Project" where people first started talking about a sexless marriage on the internet. Site was shut down and ILIASM was born in it's wake mostly of people from the old EP.
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Post by baza on Dec 16, 2019 20:38:14 GMT -5
Automatically? No, but they are massaged in that direction, aren't they, with ILIASM shibboleths? "S/he just doesn't want to f*ck you." "You can't make someone want to f*ck you." "Refusers can't change." I'm willing to bet that there is a better than a 100, maybe even 500, to 1 ration of statements about getting legal advice vs. getting marriage counseling. Yes, ILIASM members do make observations, but as I said in a post above, ILIASM is its own bubble, and its denizens do have a common experience that powers the "shared wisdom" of ILIASM. Unfortunately, while it is the "shared wisdom" of a narrowly drawn clientele, it isn't an omniscient wisdom. Nor is this wisdom objective, but due to common experience, it is jaundiced in its outlook. That said, I do agree with you about the stories that get filtered down to ILIASM, hence my hospice analogy. Most first posters here don't post about their situation chapter and verse .... at least initially. And usually, they draw comments like "sorry to hear you are in the club no-one wants to be a member of" or "welcome to the group" or something equally benign. Now "if" the initial poster follows up with some specific detail (and most do not) then members tend to base their comments on the narrative the new member puts up.
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