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Post by darktippedrose on Dec 18, 2018 15:41:00 GMT -5
I have done things in the past to get a bit of confidence, and my head up high. And then it worked. Too well. My husband upped his head games and mental warfare until I got back down again. Its a vicious cycle.
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Post by Handy on Dec 18, 2018 16:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 16:59:25 GMT -5
That is the book my therapist just recommended I start reading. I am gaining a lot from it.
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Post by baza on Dec 18, 2018 17:05:15 GMT -5
I tried just about everything. Until I finally did the only thing that really worked. I left. Of course that might not work for everyone but it sure as hell did the trick for me. That will work, for sure. Leaving the ILIASM shithole will certainly resolve the problem of "being in an ILIASM shithole" But having done that, and resolved the core problem, that ain't the end of it. You will NOT, from that moment, be living a problem free life. Rather, you will be picking up a raft of "new" problems relevant to your changed circumstances. The problems of being a single person (perhaps a co-parent as well) The thing is, that these "new" problems are manageable, whereas your "old" problems were not manageable. It comes down to which set of problems you'd sooner have. #1 - the intractable problems of being in an ILIASM shithole ? #2 - the manageable problems of being a single person ? One thing you don't get (and no-one gets) is an option of "not having problems". Life will keep chucking problems at you either way.
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Low ground
Dec 18, 2018 17:12:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by shamwow on Dec 18, 2018 17:12:54 GMT -5
I tried just about everything. Until I finally did the only thing that really worked. I left. Of course that might not work for everyone but it sure as hell did the trick for me. That will work, for sure. Leaving the ILIASM shithole will certainly resolve the problem of "being in an ILIASM shithole" But having done that, and resolved the core problem, that ain't the end of it. You will NOT, from that moment, be living a problem free life. Rather, you will be picking up a raft of "new" problems relevant to your changed circumstances. The problems of being a single person (perhaps a co-parent as well) The thing is, that these "new" problems are manageable, whereas your "old" problems were not manageable. It comes down to which set of problems you'd sooner have. #1 - the intractable problems of being in an ILIASM shithole ? #2 - the manageable problems of being a single person ? One thing you don't get (and no-one gets) is an option of "not having problems". Life will keep chucking problems at you either way. God knows that's right. No life is problem free. But in 2015-2016ish I had picked out the tree I wanted to wrap my motorcycle around (which is how low my SM had gotten me). In comparison, my current set of problems are sweet music. Life can actually be pretty good if you drop the rock dragging you under.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 18:54:52 GMT -5
I have done things in the past to get a bit of confidence, and my head up high. And then it worked. Too well. My husband upped his head games and mental warfare until I got back down again. Its a vicious cycle. Keep trying @ darktippedrose ... don't give up! Sometimes you have to fight harder than you thought possible to save yourself and realize how strong you really are! (((hugs)))
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 11:10:22 GMT -5
That is the book my therapist just recommended I start reading. I am gaining a lot from it. But does it rely on the couple reading it and both of them caring about a sex life being part of the mix? If that's the perspective then, been there done that. My wife has mostly gotten the marriage she wanted (although lately I'm assuming that isn't true); no sex, not working outside the home, no cooking unless the kids are home from college, etc. She's an industrious person so lazy isn't part of the mix but I don't ask much anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 11:18:30 GMT -5
That is the book my therapist just recommended I start reading. I am gaining a lot from it. But does it rely on the couple reading it and both of them caring about a sex life being part of the mix? If that's the perspective then, been there done that. My wife has mostly gotten the marriage she wanted (although lately I'm assuming that isn't true); no sex, not working outside the home, no cooking unless the kids are home from college, etc. She's an industrious person so lazy isn't part of the mix but I don't ask much anymore. I believe everything works better if both parties are involved. My husband is not participating, so I am taking from it what I can to change my actions and my perspective on things. One of my goals is to be able to at least discuss some of the items in there that I find particularly relevant to us. That's my next "ultimatum" of sorts, i.e., if you will not come to counseling with me, then I will supply you with articles or sections of books to review and we will discuss them together. That is my current agenda. Will have to keep posted on whether it works or not. Admittedly, yes, one person can only do so much on their own. No harm IMO reading it though, even without his participation. My thoughts being I am learning about myself and if this does not benefit my present relationship, it can only help me in any future relationships I may enter into.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 15:17:56 GMT -5
But does it rely on the couple reading it and both of them caring about a sex life being part of the mix? If that's the perspective then, been there done that. My wife has mostly gotten the marriage she wanted (although lately I'm assuming that isn't true); no sex, not working outside the home, no cooking unless the kids are home from college, etc. She's an industrious person so lazy isn't part of the mix but I don't ask much anymore. I believe everything works better if both parties are involved. My husband is not participating, so I am taking from it what I can to change my actions and my perspective on things. One of my goals is to be able to at least discuss some of the items in there that I find particularly relevant to us. That's my next "ultimatum" of sorts, i.e., if you will not come to counseling with me, then I will supply you with articles or sections of books to review and we will discuss them together. That is my current agenda. Will have to keep posted on whether it works or not. Admittedly, yes, one person can only do so much on their own. No harm IMO reading it though, even without his participation. My thoughts being I am learning about myself and if this does not benefit my present relationship, it can only help me in any future relationships I may enter into. I agree with you that you're doing the right thing, if not for the relationship (which would be awesome) but at least for you. In my case, learned helplessness has set in and I'm not doing the things I probably should be, like reading this book. Please keep us posted and I truly hope the conversation is fruitful for you.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 15:23:48 GMT -5
@whynotm3 , what is the name of the book you’re reading? Here's the image of the book for you. Just stumbled across it. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2018 17:57:13 GMT -5
That book is about Penguins!
Not everyone HAS a Penguin!
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Post by workingonit on Dec 24, 2018 18:34:09 GMT -5
carl it is a good question you ask. (the original question!) My h believes sex is a power thing between people. In therapy he claimed he believes he was subconsciously refusing sex with me as a way to get power because he felt/feels powerless in our relationship. I am a strong person so I can sort of see his side. And I was maybe more "in charge" during sex, mostly because he was incredibly passive. I have come to realize though that he is using that as an excuse to not examine why he would prefer to not have sex for YEARS with his wife rather than face these issues. I also refuse to believe I was intimidating or acted like a bully or something- I know that I pried HIS fantasies out of him and tried to fulfill them. But I think that if there is some sense of inequality in the relationship, some way one of the couple wants power over the other, refusing sex is a damn good way to diminish the other person. It is not just our self esteem that suffers, but our self worth and our sense of autonomy.
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Post by JonDoe on Dec 25, 2018 16:50:17 GMT -5
workingonit Wow, I wish a woman would show an interest in my fantasies and try to fulfill them. She wouldn’t have to pry them from me either. Heck, I would have been happy if my ex simply asked me to share one tame fantasy with her, and for her to share one as well. She refused, and claimed she didn’t have any fantasies. She also claimed she didn’t masturbate either. Both were of course lies. Who would lead if/when you slow danced? Who is the more dominant outside the bedroom in your relationship? If you are more dominant in and out of the bedroom, does he feel emasculated? Can and will he explain how that makes him feel? Have you suggested or offered taking turns leading or being slightly submissive in and out of the bedroom?
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Post by workingonit on Dec 25, 2018 17:11:36 GMT -5
JonDoe great questions and a huge topic in our therapy work. I am the more dominant but not happily. My greatest sexual relationship was with a dominant guy. I am a strong woman from a line of strong domineering women. Like many strong women, I would love to be submissive in the bedroom- what a relief to have someone take charge! But my h is passive. Mostly I am in charge because he has an inability to be- in all aspects of our life. Trust me, I have tried everything I can to build him up, empower him, be more passive myself. The result is that nothing happens. He is what is called "scared passive" which means when the going gets tough (or intimate) he shuts down. I am "scared active" which means when shit hits the fan I am right there handling it. I do not believe I emasculated him - the more I know of him, his past, etc, the more I see he has always been this way. I am not his first sexless relationship, which I did not know until after we wed. He is a brilliant and strong philosopher, thinker, and teacher - which is how I met him. I could never have believed that the man I saw then would be terrified of anything personal or intimate or practical.
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Low ground
Dec 25, 2018 19:36:29 GMT -5
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Post by carl on Dec 25, 2018 19:36:29 GMT -5
I think confidence can play a big part with a more dominant partner and the kind of shyness, if you like, of the one partner can naturally require the other to become more confident and it all snowballs. I might have been in the shy position in a relationship many years ago before I met my wife. Quite unexpectedly I just froze up when chatting about relationships with a partner and I couldn’t snap out of it. I guess in simple terms it was a sort of jealously. I am never like that now of course and nothing has intimidated me for a long while so I can hardly remember those thoughts but if I try hard and think back yes at the time I couldn’t sort myself out however hard I tried and it caused a lot of confusion. I never did actually refuse but I could see refusal as a way of gaining control or attention in a relationship where the partner is very vivacious/full of life/talented.
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