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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 16:56:26 GMT -5
Baza ... I am certain I would be the initiator of any divorce. He LOVES being married and a family man after being single and alone for so long. He was in his early 40's when we met, never married and longest relationship was only a year or so. Oddly, that one ended b/c of his low sex drive, too, as I have been told at least. Also, yes, his cred was tested, too. Last big blow up he unequivocally said if I ever say " get out- it's over" again, that there'd be no turning back. Obviously that isn't what happened here 2 nights ago. #creddestroyed. I have been VERY CAREFUL to not utter those words out of anger and it has been a long time since I have done so. When they were said Friday night, I fully meant them. As all know now, I was able to reconsider and was willing to try again. All you say though is true. I agree completely about the cred thing. You're 100% correct. The way I'm looking at that aspect is like this .... IF he chooses to take my kindness for a weakness and thinks he is only stringing me along to keep me in my place, HE will be the one hurt by that. I WILL walk if things don't improve and HE will be the only one hurt by trying to play me. Perhaps harsh, but true. I'm guarded right now. Pleasant, polite, and hopeful, but guarded nonetheless. Then there's the other angle Sister @whynotm3 - him. The "ring throwing and walking out act" he performed looks pretty impressive in the moment but proved to have nothing of substance to back it up. His cred took a beating too - at least this time (and maybe there have been other times too in the past) In any event, you now know (if you didn't before) that he is prone to saying shit he doesn't mean too. You can pretty safely assume that if a divorce is to happen here, it won't be him who instigates it. And that leaves the onus on you.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Dec 18, 2018 21:38:40 GMT -5
I was stressed out and asked my husband for some time with him tonight to help me relax. He told me "maybe on Christmas Eve". My jaw dropped and I was stunned. I said I know the kids are home, but that it's silly that we never have sex when the kids are home. I said I would really like some time with him tonight. He said no. After about an hour of trying to be calm the fight started. He just left. It's over. I've never been so humiliated in my life. Maybe Christmas Eve? Can't believe I held on this long. What a fool I have been. I'm not quite sure why but this totally reminded me of what I used to ask for every year for Christmas... and my birthday... and well, just about any occasion involving a gift. My wife would ask me what I wanted for Christmas and I would answer "You, naked, with bows in strategic locations". To me it seemed like the ideal gift; inexpensive, easy, I get exactly what I asked for, and she gets some fun too. Never happened, not once. Instead of sex I got woodworking clamps. Don't get me wrong, who doesn't need a nice set of bar clamps? Unless they are a replacement for physical touch, a sex life, and intimacy. These days I go out to my garage and look at my wall of clamps, so many clamps, so so many clamps...
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Post by h on Dec 18, 2018 22:45:12 GMT -5
I was stressed out and asked my husband for some time with him tonight to help me relax. He told me "maybe on Christmas Eve". My jaw dropped and I was stunned. I said I know the kids are home, but that it's silly that we never have sex when the kids are home. I said I would really like some time with him tonight. He said no. After about an hour of trying to be calm the fight started. He just left. It's over. I've never been so humiliated in my life. Maybe Christmas Eve? Can't believe I held on this long. What a fool I have been. I'm not quite sure why but this totally reminded me of what I used to ask for every year for Christmas... and my birthday... and well, just about any occasion involving a gift. My wife would ask me what I wanted for Christmas and I would answer "You, naked, with bows in strategic locations". To me it seemed like the ideal gift; inexpensive, easy, I get exactly what I asked for, and she gets some fun too. Never happened, not once. Instead of sex I got woodworking clamps. Don't get me wrong, who doesn't need a nice set of bar clamps? Unless they are a replacement for physical touch, a sex life, and intimacy. These days I go out to my garage and look at my wall of clamps, so many clamps, so so many clamps... I made requests like that many times. I was likewise never granted my wishes. I have tools, and hunting gear, and fishing gear as my replacements. I know how you feel.
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Dec 18, 2018 23:19:32 GMT -5
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Dec 18, 2018 23:19:32 GMT -5
I made requests like that many times. I was likewise never granted my wishes. I have tools, and hunting gear, and fishing gear as my replacements. I know how you feel. You need something clamped? I guarantee you I have the clamps you need. That photo shows about 2/3 of the total clamps, I keep clamps that are four feet or longer in a rack on the inside of the garage roof. It's not an easy place to photograph.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 23:41:01 GMT -5
Sex was supposed to be the easy part of a relationship... or so I thought. I'd kill for just once with him some middle of the night, half asleep sex, or 1st thing in the morning sex, or bend me over the sink sex, or ... 🙄 better stop before I get myself worked up. Point is, I get your point of a Christmas list. One year he got me a 2 piece fuzzy pajama set. Blue and white, very fuzzy, and stifling warm. I remember thinking this has to be the absolute least sexual thing he could have gotten me, short of a dishwasher. I wear them every now and then. Helps keep me warm on really cold nights when I know there won't even be any cuddling going on. That said, we are in reset mode here. Clock started over yesterday. Will have to see how long this new resolve of his to "make things right" lasts this time. Wouldn't that be the best Christmas gift ever? Physical affection on a regular basis without having to beg for it or offer up ultimatums? Can't wait to finally remove that one from my wish list - permanently.
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Post by baza on Dec 19, 2018 0:42:47 GMT -5
Got a couple of observations for you Sister @whynotm3 .
First, a general one. Many newbies arrive here taking a position that "everything is great bar the sex". Then, as further facts are revealed, a very dysfunctional situation emerges with the sex as a big obvious symptom of a much deeper malaise. Addictions of some sort, mental health issues, past trauma (real or imagined), financial irresponsibility, all the way to just being a shit of a person. A situation of basic fundamental incompatibility often emerges. And, unsurprisingly, incompatible people don't fuck each other.
Second, a bit more specific to you. Since your opening post I recall that you've subsequently alluded to your spouses drinking, his attraction to porn, his past inability to maintain relationships and his preference for disengaged sex with other people - suggesting some sort of issue about intimacy. There appears to be a whole lot more problems going on in the deal than just the sex.
Really, from the outside looking in, it looks like the lack of sexual connection is but one problem he has, and probably not even *the* major problem.
If I've misrepresented the facts here I apologise Sister @whynotm3 . But a lot of years reading here has me convinced that most times the lack of sex in a relationship is a huge indicator of deep and fundamental incompatibilities. Rarely does a newbies position that "everything is great bar the sex" stand up to scrutiny. Invariably it's more like "everything is pretty sub-par, and there's not even some compensatory sex".
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Dec 19, 2018 2:27:29 GMT -5
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Post by isthisit on Dec 19, 2018 2:27:29 GMT -5
I made requests like that many times. I was likewise never granted my wishes. I have tools, and hunting gear, and fishing gear as my replacements. I know how you feel.  Can I join the club? I have been given perfume, cashmere, jewellery etc, etc... when I would have been much more grateful for a spontaneous fondle on my way past him to the fridge. This year though, I have a specific request from Father Christmas .... a functioning government .... #fuckingclownsinWestminster 😡.
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Post by h on Dec 19, 2018 7:01:04 GMT -5
Can I join the club? I have been given perfume, cashmere, jewellery etc, etc... when I would have been much more grateful for a spontaneous fondle on my way past him to the fridge. This year though, I have a specific request from Father Christmas .... a functioning government .... #fuckingclownsinWestminster 😡. While completely I share your sentiment equally on this side of the pond, I have to caution you. The Mods don't allow political discussion here so be careful. Board rules and all...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2018 7:26:55 GMT -5
Got a couple of observations for you Sister @whynotm3 . First, a general one. Many newbies arrive here taking a position that "everything is great bar the sex". Then, as further facts are revealed, a very dysfunctional situation emerges with the sex as a big obvious symptom of a much deeper malaise. Addictions of some sort, mental health issues, past trauma (real or imagined), financial irresponsibility, all the way to just being a shit of a person. A situation of basic fundamental incompatibility often emerges. And, unsurprisingly, incompatible people don't fuck each other. Second, a bit more specific to you. Since your opening post I recall that you've subsequently alluded to your spouses drinking, his attraction to porn, his past inability to maintain relationships and his preference for disengaged sex with other people - suggesting some sort of issue about intimacy. There appears to be a whole lot more problems going on in the deal than just the sex. Really, from the outside looking in, it looks like the lack of sexual connection is but one problem he has, and probably not even *the* major problem. If I've misrepresented the facts here I apologise Sister @whynotm3 . But a lot of years reading here has me convinced that most times the lack of sex in a relationship is a huge indicator of deep and fundamental incompatibilities. Rarely does a newbies position that "everything is great bar the sex" stand up to scrutiny. Invariably it's more like "everything is pretty sub-par, and there's not even some compensatory sex". @ Baza .... I agree with most of that, all but for the "all great bar the sex" part. I remember vividly starting to type something similar to that but stopping, erasing and instead saying all was 'acceptable' or 'manageable' or 'fair' ,,, something along those lines. Yes, there are clearly other incompatibility issues here with the H and I. We are a blended family, so there are parenting style differences (which have been quite great at times), financial issues (my husband was out of work for almost 3 years but has been working steady the past 3 and we are doing better than ever in that area now), there are personality issues (he's a homebody and I like to go out). All that aside, it seems over the years we've found common ground on most of those issues though of course things resurface. I came to a point where, as a near 50 year old on my 2nd marriage, fully understood nothing would be perfect and, short of the sex, the rest could be adjusted and worked on. I'm not perfect and am not looking for perfection, rather an acceptable level of peace and satisfaction. I have often thought about our differences and asked myself if the sex was on point, would those issues still be an issue or would they then become the major roadblock between us? Having never been able to get past the sex part, who knows. Now you raise another point I had, too, thought of, that being, that the SEX is the symptom of other major differences which may not be solvable ENOUGH to bring about change in the area of sex. More things to ponder. I am a recovering alcoholic and I believe my husband has an alcohol problem. While he is definitely not drinking anywhere near as much as before, I understand the disease and how he can so easily slip back into the toxic levels he was at before. I couldn't care less about the porn, unless it is in fact part of what is interfering with our time together. That issue is still on the table and is mentally scheduled to be the next issue I address with him - nay, force upon him to look at and discuss with me. I enjoy the swinging lifestyle or truly could enjoy it, IF we were solid at home and I didn't feel that was a substitute for me. Until then, the parties have ceased. I say when they start back up again. So many issues, yes, it's hard to know which came first. I guess at this point all I can say is I have thought of all you have mentioned, definitely appreciate the reminder to keep looking at those areas as well and not solely focus on when I'm next going to ' get some'. I believe I mean what I say when saying I'm not looking for rocket ships and fireworks and the worlds greatest fairy tale here, but rather a solid friendship with trust, some physical affection, occasional actual passion, and peace in my home. It's still yet to be seen if that is actually possible or, as you intimate, it's just not going to happen because the other differences between he and I are just too great to overcome. We can compromise, but completely changing yourself for another person is neither possible, nor healthy. That only leads to resentment and misery, too.
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Dec 19, 2018 7:43:07 GMT -5
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Post by isthisit on Dec 19, 2018 7:43:07 GMT -5
While completely I share your sentiment equally on this side of the pond, I have to caution you. The Mods don't allow political discussion here so be careful. Board rules and all... Thanks for the reminder, it wasn’t a political statement really- ALL of them- of every flavour and allegiance are not doing their job. So fully inclusive in their muppetry.
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catsloveme
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Dwelling in the possible
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Post by catsloveme on Dec 19, 2018 11:23:24 GMT -5
Got a couple of observations for you Sister @whynotm3 . First, a general one. Many newbies arrive here taking a position that "everything is great bar the sex". Then, as further facts are revealed, a very dysfunctional situation emerges with the sex as a big obvious symptom of a much deeper malaise. Addictions of some sort, mental health issues, past trauma (real or imagined), financial irresponsibility, all the way to just being a shit of a person. A situation of basic fundamental incompatibility often emerges. And, unsurprisingly, incompatible people don't fuck each other. Second, a bit more specific to you. Since your opening post I recall that you've subsequently alluded to your spouses drinking, his attraction to porn, his past inability to maintain relationships and his preference for disengaged sex with other people - suggesting some sort of issue about intimacy. There appears to be a whole lot more problems going on in the deal than just the sex. Really, from the outside looking in, it looks like the lack of sexual connection is but one problem he has, and probably not even *the* major problem. If I've misrepresented the facts here I apologise Sister @whynotm3 . But a lot of years reading here has me convinced that most times the lack of sex in a relationship is a huge indicator of deep and fundamental incompatibilities. Rarely does a newbies position that "everything is great bar the sex" stand up to scrutiny. Invariably it's more like "everything is pretty sub-par, and there's not even some compensatory sex". @ Baza .... I agree with most of that, all but for the "all great bar the sex" part. I remember vividly starting to type something similar to that but stopping, erasing and instead saying all was 'acceptable' or 'manageable' or 'fair' ,,, something along those lines. Yes, there are clearly other incompatibility issues here with the H and I. We are a blended family, so there are parenting style differences (which have been quite great at times), financial issues (my husband was out of work for almost 3 years but has been working steady the past 3 and we are doing better than ever in that area now), there are personality issues (he's a homebody and I like to go out). All that aside, it seems over the years we've found common ground on most of those issues though of course things resurface. I came to a point where, as a near 50 year old on my 2nd marriage, fully understood nothing would be perfect and, short of the sex, the rest could be adjusted and worked on. I'm not perfect and am not looking for perfection, rather an acceptable level of peace and satisfaction. I have often thought about our differences and asked myself if the sex was on point, would those issues still be an issue or would they then become the major roadblock between us? Having never been able to get past the sex part, who knows. Now you raise another point I had, too, thought of, that being, that the SEX is the symptom of other major differences which may not be solvable ENOUGH to bring about change in the area of sex. More things to ponder. I am a recovering alcoholic and I believe my husband has an alcohol problem. While he is definitely not drinking anywhere near as much as before, I understand the disease and how he can so easily slip back into the toxic levels he was at before. I couldn't care less about the porn, unless it is in fact part of what is interfering with our time together. That issue is still on the table and is mentally scheduled to be the next issue I address with him - nay, force upon him to look at and discuss with me. I enjoy the swinging lifestyle or truly could enjoy it, IF we were solid at home and I didn't feel that was a substitute for me. Until then, the parties have ceased. I say when they start back up again. So many issues, yes, it's hard to know which came first. I guess at this point all I can say is I have thought of all you have mentioned, definitely appreciate the reminder to keep looking at those areas as well and not solely focus on when I'm next going to ' get some'. I believe I mean what I say when saying I'm not looking for rocket ships and fireworks and the worlds greatest fairy tale here, but rather a solid friendship with trust, some physical affection, occasional actual passion, and peace in my home. It's still yet to be seen if that is actually possible or, as you intimate, it's just not going to happen because the other differences between he and I are just too great to overcome. We can compromise, but completely changing yourself for another person is neither possible, nor healthy. That only leads to resentment and misery, too.  @whynotm3 there is so much we share in common. Thank you for articulating that there are some of us here that do have marriages that are pretty good on the whole—though not free of issues—even if they lack sexual intimacy.
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Post by Frustrated1978 on Jan 17, 2019 19:07:04 GMT -5
WTF??? Reminds me of a time when i hit my wife up in bed. She said ask me another time. A couple of days later she asked me to pick something up from the store for her. My response of ask me another time was met with a deafly weird silence and awkward stare towards me.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 17, 2019 22:29:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the reminder, it wasn’t a political statement really- ALL of them- of every flavour and allegiance are not doing their job. So fully inclusive in their muppetry. The problem with political jokes, is that sometimes they get elected!! Badum Bum...
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Post by deadzone75 on Jan 17, 2019 22:39:17 GMT -5
WTF??? Reminds me of a time when i hit my wife up in bed. She said ask me another time. A couple of days later she asked me to pick something up from the store for her. My response of ask me another time was met with a deafly weird silence and awkward stare towards me. I've zinged my wife with many not-so-subtle digs at our SM. She never misses a beat and never takes the bait. She's either totally clueless or totally dead inside, because I've laid out some good ones.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 18, 2019 0:17:32 GMT -5
" I've zinged my wife with many not-so-subtle digs at our SM. She never misses a beat and never takes the bait. She's either totally clueless or totally dead inside, because I've laid out some good ones."
Throwing zingers instead of clearly stating what you want is an example of being contemptuous toward our partner, and it's the most lethal of what Dr. John Gottman, one of the world's experts on marriages, says are the signs that predict divorce. He has said that once contempt is a form of communication then a couple is likely to divorce within 5 years. When I first read that, I was the one displaying contempt toward my refuser, and I had no plans to divorce. I was sure that Gottman was wrong. Less than 5 years later, I was divorced, a divorce initiated by me.
What's the point of throwing zingers? If your refuser is like mine was, she'll never respond the way you want no matter how you communicate. And why should she? Obviously, she isn't interested in sex with you, and she doesn't mind that the lack of sex bothers you. Your remaining in the marriage (despite throwing zingers) tells her that the lack of sex isn't important enough to you for you to leave her. You might as well either resign yourself to remaining in a SM or start preparing to leave.
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