Eventually, this Tara Jane Parmieter cuts to the chase and says -
"If you’re married with kids, please do your due diligence. Educate yourself about family court, high-conflict divorce, how to vet skilled attorneys, potential children’s therapists, parental alienation, parallel parenting, how to document abuse and parenting logs and, most importantly, how to exit as safely as possible so you don’t end up with a false abuse allegation and a restraining order. Talk to other men and women with similar experiences and find out what worked for them and what didn’t. Get some support whether it’s professional or a trusted friend. If you encounter anyone who minimizes, makes light of or blames you for your abuser’s behavior, disregard their ignorant bias. Keep working at taking care of yourself and don’t let the bastards get you down"
In other words - - see a lawyer and establish how a divorce would shake out for you - within those parameters start putting an exit strategy in place and get it into do-able shape - shore up your support network - research everything you can about shepherding your kids through such an event
These points (above) get hammered in here all the time....the necessity to create an alternative to staying in a sub-optimal situation.
And FWIW, I reckon that's why people (women and/or men) don't leave their dysfunctional marriages - because they have not constructed a viable alternative to staying in the status quo. They have not - presently - got an alternative choice. And/or in some instances, they have been so beaten down, the construction of a viable alternative plan is not - presently - within their capabilities.
greatcoastal. Thanks, I found that article interesting to read. I agree with it very much. There is definitely a stigma attached to male abuse. The idea of a man not being capable of dealing with an abusive woman is not something which everyone can imagine. But it is a very prejudice view. I would imagine a lot of men suffer low level physical abuse but wouldn’t know how to deal with it. And mental abuse must be quite common. The answer of why a man doesn’t leave an abusive woman is maybe in the question. They are abusive. And unless there are no dependants the very problem itself prevents the obvious solution. I don’t think that when men get abused in a relationship it is ever as serious as the more serious cases of female abuse and I think my concern would lie more with vulnerable women but the male cases are there and this needs to be recognised.
Is the main problem physical abuse, verbal abuse or neglect? I would say it is a combination of all three or more types of abuse or neglect. Of course different people see some activities as abuse and others see it as normal interactions .
I don't think one gender has the market cornered so this isn't a male or female thing, it is a people thing. Responsible men know a divorce will cost a lot in several ways. Many women fear a decline in economic stability.
Why some men stay, well responsible type men are taught to take the punches and don't be a wimp or a quitter. Sometimes it comes down to the old, never let a girl beat you up if you want to keep your "man card."
Post by lifeinwoodinville on Feb 14, 2019 1:58:26 GMT -5
My wife drives me nuckin' futz! My psychologist says she's a bully, a lazy diva, and she treats me like her personal servant. I tolerate her because of my kids.
I don't want to break up the family. I don't want my kids have to move away from their friends because as single people neither of us can afford to live in this area. I don't want to see my kids half the time. I don't want my wife remarrying and have some other guy raising my kids when I am not there.
I made the decision long ago to put up with my wife as long as I can because of my kids. I am fully aware of the arguments against my plan but this is what I think is best for everyone involved.
The author of the article kinda hits home with what she is saying but as we all know, it's never an easy decision no matter what you choose. Maybe I'm being selfish, maybe I'm making the wrong choices, I don't know. I see my psychologist every month and talk about this stuff and she helps keep me afloat. For now this is what I have, maybe something will change in six months, who knows.
It's possible to win every battle but still lose the war.
carl I don't think we need minimise the effect of emotional or verbal abuse on men. Where there is no physical abuse involved I don't think the impact on men is any less. What is different is the fear factor in terms of escalation to physical violence. My ex was emotionally abusive and he used to hit things around me - that was a physical threat - and yes, I guess maybe that's a magnifying factor. As soon as I started playing rugby - that stopped. But the emotional and verbal abuse and coercive control continued.
In general, I think we (as a society) minimise the impact of emotional abuse in general toward men or women. I mean yes, physical violence is awful, but emotional abuse is so tricky because it's not black and white. And in many cases, it is also reciprocal. Even in my deal I definitely strove NOT to be emotionally or verbally abusive but I defo said things I wished I hadn't.
lifeinwoodinville- I also made the choice to stay for my kid- for all the reasons you mentioned. Yes, I know it was probably selfish but it was the least awful decision I faced. The kids will grow up and leave the nest. At that point, you can re-evaluate your life and face yet another difficult decision. For now, try to be content with your situation. Remind yourself of the reasons why you made the decision to stay and look for other ways to find joy in your life. Focusing on what you’re missing from your wife is counterproductive at this point.
elkclan2 emotional abuse is hard to measure sometimes and intent is difficult to know. But that’s probably how it persists. Do you think sex is ever used to abuse men in a marriage ?
Well, I would certainly hazard a guess that it does. I mean in my marriage, sex was held out like crumbs and used to control my behaviour and I was certainly rejected in emotionally abusive ways and I can't see that this needs to be an exclusive strategy of male refusers.
elkclan2 do you still let the chance of sex control your behaviour ? I have stopped doing that now and it feels much more relaxing just knowing that ok we aren’t going to be having sex (unless a long chat happens first) but at least I am not going to be wasting my life begging for it.
As long as you live in a scarcity economy - and the thing you want - whatever it is - seems within reach, but unobtainable, it will influence your behaviour. You can choose to chase the item. Or you can say, fuck-it, I'll never get it - I'll pretend I don't want it. And even if you get to the point where you really don't want it - sex with a particular person - it still matters because you're not supposed to get it from anyone else. And no matter how much you think you don't care any more you'll resent that this person is standing between you and the joyful, sexful life you'd like to have or maybe think you even deserve.
I went through all those phases. I went through desperation, acceptance, outsourcing and then finally ending that relationship.
I was single for a while, but I've been in a new relationship for almost two years. It's joyful and sexful.
This morning, for the first time ever, I threatened to withhold sex from my partner.
Here's the backstory: We are both playing the same silly Angry Birds mobile phone game. He's 40 levels ahead of me, we've been joking about it our competitive nature and I said maybe I should go on sex strike while he's still making war on the piggies -Lysistrata style. He laughed, doubting my ability to hold out, and then we had sex. :-) So no it doesn't affect our behaviour now. He doesn't withhold sex or kindness or household chores or money or attention from me - and joking aside neither do I. Sure, sometimes there are other things that take priority like jobs and rent and kids and stuff, but we live generously with each other.
This the "Shoutbox" -- basically a site-wide, group chat. (It's only visible to members.)
solodriver: Thanks warmways
Oct 30, 2019 23:36:15 GMT -5
RealMustangGuy: When using a member's username in a post, how does one get it to be in different color and work as a link? I can type in the name but after posting it doesn't look the same as when others use member's usernames in their posts.
Nov 2, 2019 11:37:25 GMT -5
bfar: Just stumbled on this article:https://masculinebydesign.com/sexless-marriage-is-symptomatic-of-emasculated-husbands/ was more than a little disconcerting. Are we digging ourselves further in the hole by trying to be all enlightened and sensitive?
Nov 3, 2019 13:46:42 GMT -5
petrushka: Mate, what's the alternative to all enlightened and sensitive here? Rape? Coercion? Sexual assault? Thanks, but I can do better than being a complete arsehole (or psychopath for that matter).
Nov 3, 2019 21:11:53 GMT -5
bfar: Petrushka... I'm just wondering if we shot ourselves in the foot, as it were, by giving giving up on our strength, and giving in to the feminist agenda of making men irrelevant.
Nov 5, 2019 11:30:21 GMT -5
petrushka: Sorry, I don't buy into that at all. I'm not giving up anything. I've been into the "feminist agenda" for nearly 60 years. Having an empowered partner empowers me. I want strong women around me who take responsibility for themselves and who can face me
Nov 5, 2019 17:20:16 GMT -5
petrushka: I see 'strong men', and controlling bullies, as basically weak, lacking confidence and self esteem -- hence they think they need to assert themselves that way. I loathe patriarchy as much as matriarchy. Partners should be equals.
Nov 5, 2019 17:24:43 GMT -5
petrushka: In my world view, you are buying into some really shitty memes there.
Nov 5, 2019 17:25:20 GMT -5
apocrypha: The "feminist agenda" has changed across the past 60 years. Some feminists of the 60's call the current iteration "fainting couch feminism", thinking it a subversion and betrayal of women's lib. Hard to get a bead on what folks think, using a broad label.
Nov 8, 2019 9:37:14 GMT -5
apocrypha: No aspect of that article (which I amount to a magazine offering bad diet advice) promotes rape, coercion (beyond seduction), sexual assault, and I don't understand your public performance suggesting that they would be and thus implicating bfar.
Nov 8, 2019 9:41:51 GMT -5
mirrororchid: pfar, being sensitive means understanding how others think and feel. It doesn't mean you are compelled to adopt their thoughts and feelings. This is a matter of understanding people including loved ones. If you aren't sensitive, you lack tools to
Nov 11, 2019 8:09:49 GMT -5
mirrororchid: live well. You need not soften, but you should be able to understand vulnerability. Recognizing others' distress provides me with cues when I need to use self-control or extend help. If you're strong, you should be helping others. Use what works.
Nov 11, 2019 8:14:06 GMT -5
worksforme2: You know who I miss ...I miss smartkat and andie..and snowman 12345
Nov 14, 2019 9:16:44 GMT -5