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Post by northstarmom on Nov 4, 2018 5:22:30 GMT -5
“ No, that last paragraph is not what I do. None of that. I don’t need to do any of that stuff to flirt, I just am friendly, pay attention to them, smile and usually say something amusing/cheeky/sassy. I’m not sexual about it. But I can tell by the reaction that they take notice. Laughing, eyes twinkling, making an excuse to talk to me again... I can tell it makes us both feel good. Then I go on my merry way.”
I do that all the time with women and men. It makes people feel valued and happy. I consider it having a nice conversation.
How to people have non business conversations who don’t do such things? Do they just sit there like some of my shy introvert friends do? Showing an interest in another person by asking them questions to draw them out and following up on those quest including by sharing your experiences is what keeps conversations going and can lead to a brighter day, friendships and even more if one is looking for more.
I had to learn how to converse. Books like How to Make Small Talk and How to Make Friends and Influence People were helpful. I really used to be one of those people who sat in awkward silence watching other people connect.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 4, 2018 7:59:24 GMT -5
I am a smiler- I smile at everyone in greeting. I do it unconsciously. Lots of times I’ll smile instead of saying hello. I have never been treated “assholeishly” (yes, I made a new word) as a result of a smile. Now, I’m not a millennial and I do have a wedding ring on my finger. Perhaps that’s the reason. I do get a lot of doors opened for me though! 😉 Ditto. (Minus the ring.) And hell yeah I flirt a little sometimes, why not? It makes me feel good and I assume them as well. Just one of the things that makes life fun. I am the same. I don't even think of this as flirting. Maybe a wee bit.
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Post by snowman12345 on Nov 4, 2018 8:01:44 GMT -5
I have been married for 20 + years. In the past 15 years we’ve only had sex 5 or 6 times, non in the past 5. We still love each other but there is no intimacy whatsoever. I’ve had sex with 3 women in my life, two high school girlfriends (who pretty much asked me out) and my wife (the only women I’ve ever pursued). I don’t want to divorce or hurt her in any way, but something has to change. Lately I’ve considered outsourcing. My problem is I am completely clueless when it comes to ladies flirting, I’m talking oblivious people. Don’t get me wrong, I love women of all types, and I am a nice, polite person. I don’t think I’m horribly unattractive. I don’t even wear a ring because being a mechanic I have had to cut two of them off my finger after smashing them. Can anybody help me here, any advice, what am I missing? Open your wallet. Spend some money if you are just looking to get laid. If you are looking for more - then rethink your position on not divorcing.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 4, 2018 8:27:11 GMT -5
I think about this "not wanting to hurt her in any way."
I think it is a normal trait for us, the refused, to be caring and giving people. I can say from personal experience that I loved my wife far too long. Refusers will say they love us, but, do they? They know we have needs, and they don't give a shit that our needs are not getting met. That is not loving.
This game will continue as long as the refuser can keep this game up.
Think about what your options are. There are five courses of action you can take.
1) Stay, and be miserable. 2) Stay, but pressure your spouse to do things they don't want to do. 3) Stay, but get your needs met outside the marriage with honest and clear communication. 4) Stay, but get your needs met outside the marriage without permission. 5) Leave, because the relationship is not meeting your needs and it is the honest thing to do.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 4, 2018 8:53:32 GMT -5
“I think about this "not wanting to hurt her in any way."
But it’s fine if she keeps hurting you. Doesn’t that seem masochistic?
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 4, 2018 10:03:36 GMT -5
choosinghappy Then I go on my merry way. So, you are a teaser. Get the guy's hopes up then disappear. No, maybe I’m not being clear. I’m just friendly. It’s nothing overtly sexual. There’s no “hopes” involved, just a mood booster.
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Post by sadkat on Nov 4, 2018 11:22:46 GMT -5
Ditto. (Minus the ring.) And hell yeah I flirt a little sometimes, why not? It makes me feel good and I assume them as well. Just one of the things that makes life fun. I am the same. I don't even think of this as flirting. Maybe a wee bit. Smiling is definitely not flirting for me. I smile at everyone- men and women. It’s just a natural and unconscious form of greeting and/or thanks. For me, prolonged eye contact, along with a smile, would be more flirty. It’s a fine line, for sure!
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 4, 2018 11:26:39 GMT -5
choosinghappy Then I go on my merry way.
Handy: So, you are a teaser. Get the guy's hopes up then disappear.
Choosing happy replied: No, maybe I’m not being clear. I’m just friendly. It’s nothing overtly sexual. There’s no “hopes” involved, just a mood booster.
This is why I warned men not to assume that a smiling woman is indicating sexual interest.
Question: Do men only smile at women they want to fuck?
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Post by Handy on Nov 4, 2018 12:36:32 GMT -5
choosinghappy Then I go on my merry way.
Handy: So, you are a teaser. Get the guy's hopes up then disappear.
Choosing happy replied: No, maybe I’m not being clear. I’m just friendly. It’s nothing overtly sexual. There’s no “hopes” involved, just a mood booster.
This is why I warned men not to assume that a smiling woman is indicating sexual interest.
Question: Do men only smile at women they want to fuck?
OK, I was mostly teasing about my teasing about getting the guys hopes up and then dissapearing. I should have put a LOL after my previous comment. I am not very skilled regarding the come-backs, trying to be humorous.
I completely understand that if a woman smiles at me or wants to talk with me that is all it means and nothing more. And NSM, no I don't think about being sexual with any woman that smiles or talks with me. Yes, I want most decent people to like me, especially for more than what I can fix for them.
What I do have a difficult time with is how much I should interact with said smiling woman and here is my problem or issue, I don't want to impose on her in any major way SO I am constantly reigning in or monitoring my actions to notice signals when if it is time to move on. You see, I am one of those guys that DOES NOT want to be a pest or one of those guys that uses a woman. I want a two-way-street relationship even if it is only for a short time. I want to be considered as a decent person. I also want to be sociable and friendly, with some humor thrown in. The humor part is also difficult for me because I am not that skilled regarding humor and I know one person's humor is sometimes another person bigotry. I have been in cultural difference workshops and classes so what used to be humor to me is now "bite my tongue" material. Thank you gender awareness training. I am a sexual person inside but on the outside I am this almost gender-less person. BTW, that was a bit of sarcasm.
Yes, living in a sexless relationship, I wish some woman about equal standing and interests, would hint she wants more than just a little friendly banter. If sex happened at home on a regular basis, I wouldn't even think about another woman liking me in a more than social acquaintance. The no sex at home brings out my awareness of a slim chance there will be some emotional connection and a more robust friendship. Because I am a fixer, sometimes I wonder if another person is also in a sexless relationship that I might help bring some benefit.
What usually happens I try to be social. If things go past limited social, I usually provide something helpful to the other person, and then things stall.
I think it is common among the ILIASM people to fill emotional needs missing inside the marriage, with outside social contacts, hoping to at least to fill some voids. The trick is to not assume someone else wants or means more than they are really offering.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 4, 2018 12:45:05 GMT -5
Handy said: "What I do have a difficult time with is how much I should interact with said smiling woman and here is my problem or issue, I don't want to impose on her in any major way SO I am constantly reigning in or monitoring my actions to notice signals when if it is time to move on. You see, I am one of those guys that DOES NOT want to be a pest or one of those guys that uses a woman. I want a two-way-street relationship even if it is only for a short time. I want to be considered as a decent person. I also want to be sociable and friendly, with some humor thrown in. The humor part is also difficult for me because I am not that skilled regarding humor and I know one person's humor is sometimes another person bigotry. I have been in cultural difference workshops and classes so what used to be humor to me is now "bite my tongue" material. Thank you gender awareness training. I am a sexual person inside but on the outside I am this almost gender-less person. BTW, that was a bit of sarcasm.
Yes, living in a sexless relationship, I wish some woman about equal standing and interests, would hint she wants more than just a little friendly banter. If sex happened at home on a regular basis, I wouldn't even think about another woman liking me in a more than social acquaintance. The no sex at home brings out my awareness of a slim chance there will be some emotional connection and a more robust friendship. Because I am a fixer, sometimes I wonder if another person is also in a sexless relationship that I might help bring some benefit."
Avoid any kinds of jokes about racial, ethnic, disabled, LGBT or religious groups.
Mild sexual innuendo can be a good way to test a woman's romantic/sexual interest in you after you've talked for a while. If she freezes or seems uncomfortable don't go any further.
Be fair: let women know early that you're married.
If you're an enjoyable conversation, you could always ask if she'd be willing to meet you for drinks or coffee -- now or at some other time. Her reply would let you know if she's interested. In general, women who meet solo with a married men are expressing some kind of personal interest.
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Post by Handy on Nov 4, 2018 13:55:12 GMT -5
NSM, if you notice I don't use the word "fuck" but I do use say "sexual." In the dark humor thread, I enjoy 90% of the cartoons but I would rarely post one on my own because it might come across as degrading someone or seen arrogant. I am that way in real life. Yea I avoid jokes about racial, ethnic, disabled, LGBT or religious groups, although I have made comments about someone blowing up people and expecting 32 virgins when they are dead, seems ridiculous to me. After a short conversation I often tell people I am married and for 50 years but my W watches TV 14 hrs a day and I am on my own most of the time. If I talk at length with a woman while I am out, I ask a few questions, try to find something they do well and I might be interested in hearing more about. One woman and her H were friendly at a place where I get something to drink when I was on my bike rides. She said she grew up in an area that is now a large artificial lake and the farms she once knew about are now underwater. It was an opportunity to learn some history from the 1930 from a person that lived in the area pre and post artificial lake. Public Broadcasting aka PBS has a one hour video I didn't know about thanks to this now widow. Yes the H recently died. I talk with this older woman maybe 2 to 4 times a year and hope she she enjoys the conversation as much as I do.
If she freezes or seems uncomfortable don't go any further. So far I only hint about some sexual things. I have only had a few comments returned so I don't go any further. I know I can't make people go in any direction. They have to want to go in that or any other direction. Like the saying goes, it is too difficult to try to push a rope,so don't try. Well, maybe if the rope is wet and frozen, it might be possible to push a short section a little way.
What I am observing is some women go to some fast-food places and read a book. My idea is they are lonely or board staying at home and wouldn't mind talking with someone a little bit interesting. The last "book reading lady" told me she picks men that are losers because 3 times she married alcoholics, and get this she was an drug and alcohol addiction counselor. Our short, one time visit was interesting but I started to see why people have relationship issues. So far I have never asked a woman if she was interested in doing more with me. I do have 2 widows that I help or do things with (yoga) and my W knows about them and when I do things for or with these women. I haven't tried to do anything social other taking one to get a drink after yoga or stopping to do a little shopping on the way home from yoga because I go by the stores and the one woman had to give up driving. Her son is a good friend of mine and helps me out so I do things for his mother. There are times when I think living in a dysfunctional relationship causes me to be more dysfunctional as time goes by. Other times I think maybe I am so unusuall, that I wouldn't mesh with 98% of the women my age. I have read other men and women feel somewhat similar and the people that find an agreeable mate say life is so good, they wondered why they stayed married so long. One guy I was following from another forum said he had a drastic positive mental change regarding his attractiveness when he was in a romantic relationship once he was with someone that treated him well and him treating her well. Wanting to belong to a small group and being treated well is so much part of the human social needs spectrum/experience.
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jetcity
Junior Member
Searching for an answer
Posts: 62
Age Range: 51-55
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Flirting
Nov 4, 2018 19:13:39 GMT -5
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Post by jetcity on Nov 4, 2018 19:13:39 GMT -5
choosinghappy Then I go on my merry way.
Handy: So, you are a teaser. Get the guy's hopes up then disappear.
Choosing happy replied: No, maybe I’m not being clear. I’m just friendly. It’s nothing overtly sexual. There’s no “hopes” involved, just a mood booster.
This is why I warned men not to assume that a smiling woman is indicating sexual interest.
Question: Do men only smile at women they want to fuck?OK, I was mostly teasing about my teasing about getting the guys hopes up and then dissapearing. I should have put a LOL after my previous comment. I am not very skilled regarding the come-backs, trying to be humorous. I completely understand that if a woman smiles at me or wants to talk with me that is all it means and nothing more. And NSM, no I don't think about being sexual with any woman that smiles or talks with me. Yes, I want most decent people to like me, especially for more than what I can fix for them. What I do have a difficult time with is how much I should interact with said smiling woman and here is my problem or issue, I don't want to impose on her in any major way SO I am constantly reigning in or monitoring my actions to notice signals when if it is time to move on. You see, I am one of those guys that DOES NOT want to be a pest or one of those guys that uses a woman. I want a two-way-street relationship even if it is only for a short time. I want to be considered as a decent person. I also want to be sociable and friendly, with some humor thrown in. The humor part is also difficult for me because I am not that skilled regarding humor and I know one person's humor is sometimes another person bigotry. I have been in cultural difference workshops and classes so what used to be humor to me is now "bite my tongue" material. Thank you gender awareness training. I am a sexual person inside but on the outside I am this almost gender-less person. BTW, that was a bit of sarcasm. Yes, living in a sexless relationship, I wish some woman about equal standing and interests, would hint she wants more than just a little friendly banter. If sex happened at home on a regular basis, I wouldn't even think about another woman liking me in a more than social acquaintance. The no sex at home brings out my awareness of a slim chance there will be some emotional connection and a more robust friendship. Because I am a fixer, sometimes I wonder if another person is also in a sexless relationship that I might help bring some benefit. What usually happens I try to be social. If things go past limited social, I usually provide something helpful to the other person, and then things stall. I think it is common among the ILIASM people to fill emotional needs missing inside the marriage, with outside social contacts, hoping to at least to fill some voids. The trick is to not assume someone else wants or means more than they are really offering.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 4, 2018 20:51:23 GMT -5
Handy said: "What I am observing is some women go to some fast-food places and read a book. My idea is they are lonely or board staying at home and wouldn't mind talking with someone a little bit interesting. The last "book reading lady" told me she picks men that are losers because 3 times she married alcoholics, and get this she was an drug and alcohol addiction counselor. Our short, one time visit was interesting but I started to see why people have relationship issues.
So far I have never asked a woman if she was interested in doing more with me. I do have 2 widows that I help or do things with (yoga) and my W knows about them and when I do things for or with these women. I haven't tried to do anything social other taking one to get a drink after yoga or stopping to do a little shopping on the way home from yoga because I go by the stores and the one woman had to give up driving. Her son is a good friend of mine and helps me out so I do things for his mother."
I like to hang out at coffee shops and read or surf the Internet. Sometimes I've gotten into conversations with others, including men. Those are nice day brighteners. Not looking for friends, lovers, etc., just some temporary diversion.
I've also gotten into conversations with men and women after yoga and similar experiences. Have made some nice friends -- men and women friends that way.
If I'd wanted to take things further with any of the men I would have suggested that we get together again for coffee or something.
I've always avoided accepting favors from men whom I wasn't in a relationship with. I've found that with rare exception (such as if a man is gay, asexual or has ED), if he's volunteering handyman services, loans, a listening ear for what he thinks are my troubles, he's interested in sex. I think, however, that making some offers does result in sex for many men or else they wouldn't do it. For those tactics to work, however, the men have to have the courage to make a pass, which would sometimes result in success.
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Post by Handy on Nov 4, 2018 21:52:17 GMT -5
I have a reputation for knowing how things work and how to solve SOME issues, so the first thing that usually happens is something to do with a computer, tablet, rt cell phone. I am not much of an expert but compared to what some older people know about technology, I have a decent edge on many folks. I never offer things that cost me money or a lot of time. I finally learned that lesson because it usually cost me too much time. AH, the courage to make a pass but not be viewed as someone looking for something the woman isn't interested in and that might lead to having to pull way back and judge me as mostly having something physical as my agenda. This is where I error on the safe side so I don't lose a friendly encounter. One woman was telling me about her super friendly chat with some unknown guy that went on for an hour. Lots of information passed both ways,,,, until she thought it was getting personal or sexual. The next day she asked me how to delete the guy and his texts on her phone. I sized her up as only wanting friends. I had talked with her for over a month after yoga and she told me an awful lot about her entire life. We actually had a lot in common but I gather every male would be in the friend zone. It took a month of talking with her to determine the "friend zone" thing. I did make one comment about some old tractors this woman I was talking with for over a month. She has 3 old tractors. I said I would consider having a GF if the woman had more tractors than I had (me =0) and told a story about a tractor restoration video I saw 10+ years ago where the woman's H died and left the widow with 50+ old farm tractors. Well the widow with 50+ tractors (the dead H restored tractors) met a guy with a few less than 50 tractors and they eventually got married. I said that sounded like a good deal for any man. The new H also restores old farm tractors and has some worth $100K each, and a lot of tractors worth way less. My local tractor woman didn't run with that (duplicating a small part of the tractor video) so I knew not to do anything like that in the near future.
NSM, I wasn't interested in anything physical at the time but was hoping for a more durable connection. As it stands now, it is sort of a friendly peer, how is your life going. This woman works part time in the back at the place where I get a cold drink after yoga. She is just as friendly with other customers when she has a drink/snack at the end of her 4 hr AM shift. I am not expecting more but I am happy to have her sit down with me and chat for 20 minuets, when things work that way. She does this with other customers so no one is exclusive.
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Post by saarinista on Nov 7, 2018 5:20:42 GMT -5
fyi, i don't understand why anyone would be insulted by someone making apass at them. I mean I'm not trying to be offencive but I think some people are overly sensitive. Or maybe they just are getting more interest than I am.
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