jetcity
Junior Member
Searching for an answer
Posts: 62
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by jetcity on Oct 31, 2018 13:47:00 GMT -5
I have been married for 20 + years. In the past 15 years we’ve only had sex 5 or 6 times, non in the past 5. We still love each other but there is no intimacy whatsoever. I’ve had sex with 3 women in my life, two high school girlfriends (who pretty much asked me out) and my wife (the only women I’ve ever pursued). I don’t want to divorce or hurt her in any way, but something has to change. Lately I’ve considered outsourcing. My problem is I am completely clueless when it comes to ladies flirting, I’m talking oblivious people. Don’t get me wrong, I love women of all types, and I am a nice, polite person. I don’t think I’m horribly unattractive. I don’t even wear a ring because being a mechanic I have had to cut two of them off my finger after smashing them. Can anybody help me here, any advice, what am I missing?
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Post by workingonit on Oct 31, 2018 13:52:47 GMT -5
Not sure what you are asking. Are you not sure if women are flirting with you? Do you want to know how to flirt?
I think you are looking to feel wanted. I get that. I have that same need. And there is this whole weird world of on line flirting and stuff that feels foreign to me. But it might be a good place for you to dip a toe into the world of APs or outsourcing.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 14:06:22 GMT -5
jetcityIf you are considering outsourcing, think long and hard about the consequences if you are caught. How to flirt? Smile. Compliment. Listen. Care.
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Post by Handy on Oct 31, 2018 14:16:02 GMT -5
jetcity, I am in a similar position, no ring due to the type of work I do. I have women touch my arm when I talk with them. I know this shows interest on their part but I often wonder if it is just to get my attention so I listen to them more intently or is there any romantic interest. One lady does this with her H right next to her. She is a talker and dominates conversations so I am guessing she touches me to only get my full attention. If a woman is standing closer than normal that shows some type of interest. I think fo your part paying attention to most women is sort of flirting, but it is up to the woman to determine how she takes it. Just for the record, I rarely dated when I was younger and played married and not available or interested for so long, I too don't pick up on the meanings some women that show interest in me as a friend or maybe something more. My sample size of romantic and sexual dating was only one person and we got married 50 years ago, so that leaves me a bit rusty.
What shynjdude said works.
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Post by Dan on Oct 31, 2018 14:44:36 GMT -5
If you are considering crossing that dark bridge to the Land of Outsourcing, let me point out that "being a good flirt" is not going to get you there on its own. Rather, that journey is almost like a second job. You have to invest time figuring how to cover your tracks; then where to find potential APs (affair partners); and THEN you start the search, which may take a while AND lots of patience and organization. THEN there is the process of figuring out if the women who actually DO meet you for coffee are really a good fit (considering what you are each looking for) and if there is mutual attraction and sufficient trust. Flirting is not the process itself; flirting figures in toward the end of that very long process.
That said, flirting is a very good thing to learn do... and learn to do well. This is true even if you are not seeking an AP, as the mini thrill of a successful flirt will make you feel better about YOU. Practice it by making a witty remark to someone (of the opposite sex) when you are standing in line. Pay a compliment to a woman with the expectation of nothing but returned glance of pleasant surprise. Ask a waitress or barista or female call center handler her name, then say "thank you, [her name]." Remember something about a female cashier you meet, then ask her about it next time you see her.
Note that none of these encounters is specifically about seeking an AP, per se. All these are either flirting, or sufficiently akin to it that you should do them anyways. Overcome your fear of flirting, and you'll get good at it. But the only way to do that is flirt while you are still a bit afraid to! Practice it at every opportunity. Before you know it, you'll be a pro.
Just remember: with great power comes great responsibility!
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Post by baza on Oct 31, 2018 15:47:30 GMT -5
Read Brother Dan 's post above, a few times. It is a very sensible suggestion. And be aware that outsourcing is a game changer and can spin your life off at unknown (and unknowable) tangents. It needs to be a fully informed choice and is most definitely not something to do on a half arsed whim.
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Post by jamesbonding on Nov 1, 2018 0:12:25 GMT -5
I don't understand why people want to keep outsourcing a secret from their refusing spouses. If they are refusing, obviously they have no interest in having sex (at least with you). So why should they care if you outsource? In a way, you might be doing them a favor by relieving them of the responsibility to "put out" when they don't want to.
I warned my wife that I was looking for a girlfriend about six months before I decided to actually visit someone. I was open with my wife (and my kids, and my parents, and a few close friends) about my affair, and it worked out OK. Actually, that affair was the catalyst that led to the turnaround in my marriage.
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Post by choosinghappy on Nov 1, 2018 4:45:14 GMT -5
I don't understand why people want to keep outsourcing a secret from their refusing spouses. If they are refusing, obviously they have no interest in having sex (at least with you). So why should they care if you outsource? In a way, you might be doing them a favor by relieving them of the responsibility to "put out" when they don't want to. I warned my wife that I was looking for a girlfriend about six months before I decided to actually visit someone. I was open with my wife (and my kids, and my parents, and a few close friends) about my affair, and it worked out OK. Actually, that affair was the catalyst that led to the turnaround in my marriage. You really “can’t understand”? Your experience of being able to open about it and your wife being receptive (and then forgiving) is incredibly abnormal. Most spouses do not want their partner fucking someone else even IF they have no interest in fucking them themselves. And to be open about it with your kids and parents? Also very strange. Most people do not talk about their sex lives with their children OR their parents. I’m glad it seems to have worked out for you (even though in a prior thread you did note that the “turnaround” in your SM means that you are receiving starfish sex regularly which others here, myself included, would not classify as a tolerable resolution), but the way you went about your outsourcing is certainly not what most would or even could do. Just take a look at ironhamster’s experience of being open about an affair if you want a good example of how I suspect it would turn out for most.
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Post by shamwow on Nov 1, 2018 11:01:59 GMT -5
I don't understand why people want to keep outsourcing a secret from their refusing spouses. If they are refusing, obviously they have no interest in having sex (at least with you). So why should they care if you outsource? In a way, you might be doing them a favor by relieving them of the responsibility to "put out" when they don't want to. I warned my wife that I was looking for a girlfriend about six months before I decided to actually visit someone. I was open with my wife (and my kids, and my parents, and a few close friends) about my affair, and it worked out OK. Actually, that affair was the catalyst that led to the turnaround in my marriage. You really “can’t understand”? Your experience of being able to open about it and your wife being receptive (and then forgiving) is incredibly abnormal. Most spouses do not want their partner fucking someone else even IF they have no interest in fucking them themselves. And to be open about it with your kids and parents? Also very strange. Most people do not talk about their sex lives with their children OR their parents. I’m glad it seems to have worked out for you (even though in a prior thread you did note that the “turnaround” in your SM means that you are receiving starfish sex regularly which others here, myself included, would not classify as a tolerable resolution), but the way you went about your outsourcing is certainly not what most would or even could do. Just take a look at ironhamster’s experience of being open about an affair if you want a good example of how I suspect it would turn out for most. I had a similar reaction. It's like playing Russian roulette because, hey, there isn't anything really to lose, right? Then pulling the trigger, getting an empty chamber, and celebrating that you get to keep living a life you were miserable in.
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Post by northstarmom on Nov 1, 2018 11:30:39 GMT -5
Jamesbonding, what you consider success- the starfish sex your wife is providing— sounds less enjoyable than getting off with a blowup doll. What many here want is sex with a willing partner who enjoys it, doesn’t just submit for fear of divorce.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 1, 2018 15:38:43 GMT -5
As a general rule, people see the world from their own perspective. My wife would not accept my needs as being valid. Outsourcing was unacceptable in her eyes.
I can not prove this, but I have a theory that asexuals get enjoyment out of our discomfort. They do not maintain a relationship with a sexual because they care about our wellbeing or happiness. There is some sort of dopamine release they get from manipulating a sexual, and, lacking any experience with the real thing, they call it "love." In truth, it is a malignant form of control.
As for the ring, they make rubber rings that return to form, carbide rings that break and not bend, and tattoos of rings if you need your fingers clear. I wore carbide ring, and my wife never said a word when I stopped wearing it.
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Post by workingonit on Nov 1, 2018 17:31:40 GMT -5
As a general rule, people see the world from their own perspective. My wife would not accept my needs as being valid. Outsourcing was unacceptable in her eyes. I can not prove this, but I have a theory that asexuals get enjoyment out of our discomfort. They do not maintain a relationship with a sexual because they care about our wellbeing or happiness. There is some sort of dopamine release they get from manipulating a sexual, and, lacking any experience with the real thing, they call it "love." In truth, it is a malignant form of control. As for the ring, they make rubber rings that return to form, carbide rings that break and not bend, and tattoos of rings if you need your fingers clear. I wore carbide ring, and my wife never said a word when I stopped wearing it. That is an interesting theory. My h believes he was refusing me for so long because he felt powerless and refusing gave him some sense of power. He admits this. Really my h felt powerless because he os afraid of sex and intimacy. And I still contend that if he can refuse me for 9 years he has more than a few issues with sexuality that are not explained by his power story. He still will not face them. This explanation satisfies him and puts the blame on me for being sexually assertive or vocal. Also I do not want to be married to someone who admits to manipulating my needs to get power over me. FOR NINE YEARS!
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Post by shamwow on Nov 1, 2018 17:35:21 GMT -5
As a general rule, people see the world from their own perspective. My wife would not accept my needs as being valid. Outsourcing was unacceptable in her eyes. I can not prove this, but I have a theory that asexuals get enjoyment out of our discomfort. They do not maintain a relationship with a sexual because they care about our wellbeing or happiness. There is some sort of dopamine release they get from manipulating a sexual, and, lacking any experience with the real thing, they call it "love." In truth, it is a malignant form of control. As for the ring, they make rubber rings that return to form, carbide rings that break and not bend, and tattoos of rings if you need your fingers clear. I wore carbide ring, and my wife never said a word when I stopped wearing it. Interesting thoughts on asexual joy. I don't think my asexual ex got joy from much of anything.
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Post by ironhamster on Nov 1, 2018 19:10:40 GMT -5
As a general rule, people see the world from their own perspective. My wife would not accept my needs as being valid. Outsourcing was unacceptable in her eyes. I can not prove this, but I have a theory that asexuals get enjoyment out of our discomfort. They do not maintain a relationship with a sexual because they care about our wellbeing or happiness. There is some sort of dopamine release they get from manipulating a sexual, and, lacking any experience with the real thing, they call it "love." In truth, it is a malignant form of control. As for the ring, they make rubber rings that return to form, carbide rings that break and not bend, and tattoos of rings if you need your fingers clear. I wore carbide ring, and my wife never said a word when I stopped wearing it. Interesting thoughts on asexual joy. I don't think my asexual ex got joy from much of anything. One of my ex's greatest perceivable joys was winning an argument, and the runner up was convincing others that her view of the world was the proper one.
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Post by worksforme2 on Nov 1, 2018 19:43:51 GMT -5
Flirting is really an attitude or frame of mind one has toward a member of the opposite sex. It is a mechanism for approaching someone we find attractive. The attraction can take many forms although physical attraction is the most prevalent. To flirt one must be of a certain mindset, that being of finding a mechanism (usually conversation) to make the object of one's desire aware our one's interest in them. I flirt fairly frequently and in just about every conceivable location. If I am attracted to a woman I generally observe her from a distance for a short period of time to see if her body language hints at being approachable. Or to see if she does something I can use as an excuse to start a conversation with her. For the most part, humor is my tool of choice to advance my cause. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's always a roll of the dice. Flirting is easy as ABC, 123. Note that I said it isn't always successful. Sometimes I clearly misjudge how receptive my target is, and I go down in flames. Other times a conversation comes about that tells me if she is interested. Flirting is the easy part. Building the initial flirt introduction into something more, that's the hard part.
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