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Post by nyartgal on Oct 23, 2018 18:17:22 GMT -5
Hi all! I just found out someone I know (more like a friend of a friend) was on a sexless marriage for at least 20 years. Basically as soon as he and his wife had kids, the sex dried up because she wasn’t interested. He is now in his mid-50’s, his wife is about 10 years older.
When their kids went off to college, it all fell apart. They realized that they had nothing in common besides their kids. He moved out, had a few affairs, and even fell in love with another woman. But he decided that he wanted to make it work with his wife, but ONLY if she went to therapy and dealt with her own issues. They also went to couples therapy, and worked a lot on trying to find their way back to each other. They had to create a new paradigm.
Then, and only then, they moved back in together. From what I understand, they are pretty happy. I don’t know the details of their sex life, but I don’t think he would have gone back unless there had been significant improvement there.
I guess you can call it a success story—but it involved separation, other partners, lots of therapy and self-evolution, and ultimately, a reunion. Seems about right to me. If you’re not BOTH willing to blow it up and rebuild from the ground up, it’s very hard to create a satisfying marriage after sexlessness.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 18:59:12 GMT -5
nyartgal, I'm still hesitant to call mine a success story yet, but for my wife and me blowing up the old marriage was essential. In no way is this a continuation of the old marriage except for the fact that no one else in our lives knows that the marriage effectively ended and was rebuilt. (Which is just more proof that one cannot know how unhappy other couples are.) We are different people than we were, and we are much happier people. When the past sucks....nuke it.
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Post by baza on Oct 23, 2018 20:23:17 GMT -5
Sister nyartgal 's anecdotal story makes the telling point. They separated. The bloke started sorting his own shit out. The chick, whilst late to the party, started sorting her own shit out. Then, with them both having sorted a lot of their individual shit out they undertook the hard unremitting work of trying to build a brand new deal. And, apparently, did so successfully. It's a great anecdote. And, if you wanted you can actually see first hand stories in here along the same lines... timeforliving2 has written extensively about his situation. tiredoftears has written a bit about hers. @stevit has written some stuff about his. Brother @shynjdude 's story as it runs its' course may turn out to be another. So these situations DO occur. There's no arguement about that fact. But before you get too excited, bear this in mind. The membership here is 1,274. Results of 'turnarounds' total about 5 to be on the generous side. That's 00.39% - or about 1 in 255. The odds of you having your shit sorted out AND your spouse having their shit sorted out, and your dynamic having the capability of building a brand new edifice are not real good. The one thing that YOU can do, is to sort your own shit out (and that's about the toughest gig you can take on) And then see what happens. Your relationship will either thrive or dive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2018 21:05:09 GMT -5
With all due respect, brother baza, if we only count members who have been around for more than 50 posts - which I would argue is about the number needed to know their deals over time - the odds go up to between 2 and 3%. Still very long odds, but perhaps it crosses the line from seeming impossible to being worth a shot.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 24, 2018 1:08:23 GMT -5
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Post by baza on Oct 24, 2018 2:23:28 GMT -5
We have this debate every few months Brother @shynjdude and it does no harm to re-visit it.
A look at the members who have made at least 50 posts as you suggest = 4 pages (at 50 per page) plus 19 more on the 5th page. Total 219. Taking the 5 'turnarounds' as a constant would indeed give you 02.28% or 1 in 44. By my metric, that's abysmal. (and I personally think these appalling %'s are rather generous)
Other sampling, on assorted basis has come in as low as 00.30% and the truth is probably somewhere in between the low end 00.30% and the 'high' end 02.28%.
I think this bit, where you say - "Still very long odds, but perhaps it crosses the line from seeming impossible to being worth a shot" - warrants a comment as the implication is that people have not already tried everything they could think of before arriving here. I think that just about everyone who arrives here has ALREADY taken their best shot - and failed - and that's why they've ended up googling sexless marriage and found their way here.
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Post by tiredoftears on Oct 24, 2018 2:47:17 GMT -5
Just throwing it out there, since my name was brought up....
I got laid twice last week.
Yay for outsourcing! And yay for a partner that wants to fuck me after I outsource! Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 4:02:12 GMT -5
I think this bit, where you say - "Still very long odds, but perhaps it crosses the line from seeming impossible to being worth a shot" - warrants a comment as the implication is that people have not already tried everything they could think of before arriving here. I think that just about everyone who arrives here has ALREADY taken their best shot - and failed - and that's why they've ended up googling sexless marriage and found their way here. The thread that DryCreek points to is instructive, I think. From the start, I always thought there is a default "vibe" at ILIASM of "Give up. Hope is gone. Your partner won't change." And, I've maintained, I think that this vibe ensures that the people who still have a shot don't stick around, making it seem like a self-fulfilling prophecy. At the DB reddit, there is a lot more "hope" if only because the percentage of people who have hopeful stories (I think they have a "good news Friday" feature) is somewhat higher. There could be other reasons for this, however - my impression is that the DB reddit is for much younger people on the average who haven't been in SMs for nearly as long. Or it could be simply that there are so many more people on Reddit than here and more stories, even with abysmal odds, give people more hope. Or it could be that more refusers (LLs) pop in to the DB reddit and give their perspectives. Either way, as this thread is saying, in order to have even a tiny chance to fix things there must be a paradigm shift. And all we can do is change ourselves - "get our own shit together." Which often means the decision to leave (or outsource) for our own sanity. What happens next is out of our hands, but will often end up improving the situation, one way or the other.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 24, 2018 9:49:32 GMT -5
Adding my 2 cents here.
I agree with blowing up the marriage piece. That can manifest in different ways, separation, divorce, affairs.
But even if the odds are low, there does appear to be some common themes in the success stories. One of the partners seems to have a moment of enlightenment triggered by the blowup part. Then if both partners are still willing to overcome the odds, the rebuilding starts, with no guarantee of success. More likely than not though, by the time the enlightenment happens, one of the partners is too far gone to rebuild the relationship. And one person alone cannot rebuild.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 10:26:41 GMT -5
Adding my 2 cents here. I agree with blowing up the marriage piece. That can manifest in different ways, separation, divorce, affairs. But even if the odds are low, there does appear to be some common themes in the success stories. One of the partners seems to have a moment of enlightenment triggered by the blowup part. Then if both partners are still willing to overcome the odds, the rebuilding starts, with no guarantee of success. More likely than not though, by the time the enlightenment happens, one of the partners is too far gone to rebuild the relationship. And one person alone cannot rebuild. There is one other commonality between those who end up divorcing and those who turn it around: One partner has the guts to put the marriage on the line.
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Post by baza on Oct 24, 2018 18:16:31 GMT -5
I think that's the core lesson to be had in this group Brother @shynjdude . The existing dysfunctional marriage has to be put on the line - ruled off - finished - not tolerated - finalised - killed off - be brought to a full stop - taken out the back and shot - humanely euthanised - put out of its' misery.
In the vast majority of cases, that is then going to mean "divorce".
In a small minority of cases, where both parties have their individual shit sorted out, that is going to mean a completely new deal being negotiated.
But it is going to mean "neither" unless you are prepared to put the marriage on the line. Rather, it means the existing dysfunctional situation floats along on its' (not so merry) way.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 24, 2018 19:39:12 GMT -5
Never a truer word I think that's the core lesson to be had in this group Brother @shynjdude . The existing dysfunctional marriage has to be put on the line - ruled off - finished - not tolerated - finalised - killed off - be brought to a full stop - taken out the back and shot - humanely euthanised - put out of its' misery. In the vast majority of cases, that is going to mean "divorced". In a small minority of cases, where both parties have their individual shit sorted out, that is going to mean a completely new deal being negotiated. But it is going to mean "neither" unless you are prepared to put the marriage on the line. Rather, it means the existing dysfunctional situation floats along on its' (not so merry) way.
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Post by nyartgal on Oct 26, 2018 12:41:31 GMT -5
Also important to remember that couples can separate, work on their respective shit, and still decide to go their own ways. And there is nothing wrong with that! Life is about being happy...if a marriage doesn’t make either person happy, what is the point? For me that outcome would also be a “success.”
For me the major takeaway is to be as honest as possible with oneself. Sexless marriages are full of delusion and self-delusion. It takes a lot of work to cut through the zillion layers of bullshit. But it has to be done if you’re going to move forward.
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Post by Handy on Oct 26, 2018 13:16:26 GMT -5
I agree with the zillion layers of bullshit.
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Post by baza on Nov 8, 2018 20:38:11 GMT -5
Also important to remember that couples can separate, work on their respective shit, and still decide to go their own ways. And there is nothing wrong with that! Life is about being happy...if a marriage doesn’t make either person happy, what is the point? For me that outcome would also be a “success.” For me the major takeaway is to be as honest as possible with oneself. Sexless marriages are full of delusion and self-delusion. It takes a lot of work to cut through the zillion layers of bullshit. But it has to be done if you’re going to move forward. Yes Sister nyartgal , that is an important truth. The fact that two reasonably functional people could come to the table with their shit fairly well sorted out, is a guarantee of precisely nothing as far as 're-kindling' a marriage goes. However, if two reasonably functional people could come to the table with their shit fairly well sorted out, the outcome could be the realisation that there is no future in trying to flog a dead horse, and a respectful permanent parting of the ways is in order. That, would be a successful outcome. As would the outcome in your original anectdotal scenario.
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