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Post by iceman on Sept 27, 2018 10:06:33 GMT -5
I think most of us here with children worry about what the impact of divorce might be on our children, particularly when they are younger. But what is the impact when they are grown if we don’t divorce? When they are grown will they want to come visit parents who obviously don’t enjoy each other’s company and seem to be in a permanent state of unhappiness unless they have to? If they have children, our grandchildren, will they encourage them to come spend time with us and expose their children to our unhappiness? Will our grandchildren even enjoy spending time with us, or will we be the grumpy grandparents? By staying married are we sentencing ourself to a life of loneliness with our only company being the person that is the cause of our unhappiness, and by extension the cause of our loneliness? Just thinking ....
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 27, 2018 10:12:09 GMT -5
My parents were in a sm so miserable that I begged them to divorce. Mom chose to stay “for the children.” Dad stayed to avoid giving up his house.
Once in college, I took jobs that kept me from going home summers and holidays. After college, I chose to live in cities far away and avoided visiting home. Even after my dad died when I was in my 30s I returned home as seldom as possible because all beingvthere did was bring back memories of my miserable childhood.
My mom died almost 20 years ago. I’m 67. I still wish my parents had divorced.
Growing up amid a sm also helped me not realize the value of sex in love relationships. That’s how I stayed married 34 years, including at least a total of 13 years of complete sexlessness.
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Post by flashjohn on Sept 27, 2018 10:19:14 GMT -5
I felt that I needed to stay until my youngest was out of the house because my refuser was so abusive. If I had not been around, my daughters would have never been able to have time with friends or even get their driver's licenses.
But I do worry about how my miserable joke of a marriage affected them. But there is nothing I can do about it now. I do know that I could not spend another holiday with my refuser. I used to dread holidays and trips because she would always get mad about something. Once, in California, she got mad at me because it was cloudy. As if I could do anything about it.
I do think that holidays will be much better without all the tension.
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Post by iceman on Sept 27, 2018 10:36:51 GMT -5
I felt that I needed to stay until my youngest was out of the house because my refuser was so abusive. If I had not been around, my daughters would have never been able to have time with friends or even get their driver's licenses. But I do worry about how my miserable joke of a marriage affected them. But there is nothing I can do about it now. I do know that I could not spend another holiday with my refuser. I used to dread holidays and trips because she would always get mad about something. Once, in California, she got mad at me because it was cloudy. As if I could do anything about it. I do think that holidays will be much better without all the tension. I actually dislike weekends because I have to spend more time with my wife. It’s exhausting trying to find ways to avoid her for two days every week.
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Post by flashjohn on Sept 27, 2018 16:11:42 GMT -5
I actually dislike weekends because I have to spend more time with my wife. It’s exhausting trying to find ways to avoid her for two days every week. My friend, I have been there. If I had a day off, I would get up and put on my suit and leave like I was going to work because if she knew I was off, she would start yelling at me all the things she wanted me to do. I stayed at work longer than necessary to be away from her.
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Post by northstarmom on Sept 27, 2018 16:16:56 GMT -5
iceman said: "I actually dislike weekends because I have to spend more time with my wife. It’s exhausting trying to find ways to avoid her for two days every week. "
Can you find things to do outside the house with your kids -- things you and the kids enjoy but your wife doesn't? You can say you're giving your wife a break. Otherwise, what's the point of not divorcing since you're doing your best to be out of the house and presumably away from your kids?
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Post by baza on Sept 27, 2018 18:06:45 GMT -5
I think most of us here with children worry about what the impact of divorce might be on our children, particularly when they are younger. But what is the impact when they are grown if we don’t divorce? When they are grown will they want to come visit parents who obviously don’t enjoy each other’s company and seem to be in a permanent state of unhappiness unless they have to? If they have children, our grandchildren, will they encourage them to come spend time with us and expose their children to our unhappiness? Will our grandchildren even enjoy spending time with us, or will we be the grumpy grandparents? By staying married are we sentencing ourself to a life of loneliness with our only company being the person that is the cause of our unhappiness, and by extension the cause of our loneliness? Just thinking .... That's an interesting point you bring up Brother iceman . The scenario you paint certainly looks like a reasonable one, and could end up in play in some instances. I know that in my deal these days, Ms enna's grandaughter comes and stays with us during school holidays and she has a ball. But she is now 6, and quite soon I imagine that 'staying with enna and baz' will start losing its' appeal. But I hope she will always feel welcome, and will visit us because she wants to rather than feels she has to.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Sept 28, 2018 0:27:57 GMT -5
I have thought a lot about this. My kids are 11 and 8. My 11 year old recognizes that things between mom and dad are not right. For example, none of his friends parents sleep in separate bedrooms. I am very concerned about how my kids see my wife and I interact together. We never kiss and never hug. My wife spends her evenings and weekends parked on the couch watching TV while I am up doing things like making food, cleaning, or doing laundry. It's not an ideal situation, but it could be worse. There is no abuse, our kids do well in school, they are active in sports, they have good friends, and they generally seem happy.
I think about leaving and there are some things I cannot get over. Not seeing them everyday would be very difficult. Also, my wife will likely trap some other poor sucker into marrying her and my kids will be exposed to this guy and he may not treat them properly. That same guy may have kids of his own that are problems. There is a whole bunch of stuff like that, stuff that can be avoided by staying put.
My wife has said to me numerous times "I'm in this for the long haul, good times and bad, I will stay". I think this comes from her own parents divorce, which I don't know much about because NO ONE will talk about it. Her parents divorced 30+ years ago and both still refuse to be in the same room together. If I even mention one of them to the other they get uncomfortable and moody. So, I assume that it was pretty nasty. I think her motivation for staying is she doesn't want that to happen to our kids.
My psychologist believes that I can get full custody of the kids because she believes my wife is an unfit parent. My psychologist has never met her, she bases this on what I have told her. The kids definitely like me better then her, that's mostly because I'm less strict. The last time my wife came back from a business trip the first thing our daughter told her was "It's better when you're not here." My wife cried for a day and a half about that. I don't think she's a horrible parent and I don't want to take our kids away from their mom, that's not fair to her either. If that were to happen it would literally crush my wife, and I honestly don't know how she would react to that.
So, here I am, still in my sexless marriage. Maybe I am causing damage to my kids future relationships, I don't know. What I do know right now is I'm not miserable, I'm just not where I want to be. I have good days and bad days just like everyone else. I know that being in the same house with my kids every day is more important to me then having a good relationship. Maybe that's selfish, I don't know.
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Post by flounder on Sept 28, 2018 5:09:05 GMT -5
I have thought a lot about this. My kids are 11 and 8. My 11 year old recognizes that things between mom and dad are not right. For example, none of his friends parents sleep in separate bedrooms. I am very concerned about how my kids see my wife and I interact together. We never kiss and never hug. My wife spends her evenings and weekends parked on the couch watching TV while I am up doing things like making food, cleaning, or doing laundry. It's not an ideal situation, but it could be worse. There is no abuse, our kids do well in school, they are active in sports, they have good friends, and they generally seem happy. I think about leaving and there are some things I cannot get over. Not seeing them everyday would be very difficult. Also, my wife will likely trap some other poor sucker into marrying her and my kids will be exposed to this guy and he may not treat them properly. That same guy may have kids of his own that are problems. There is a whole bunch of stuff like that, stuff that can be avoided by staying put. My wife has said to me numerous times "I'm in this for the long haul, good times and bad, I will stay". I think this comes from her own parents divorce, which I don't know much about because NO ONE will talk about it. Her parents divorced 30+ years ago and both still refuse to be in the same room together. If I even mention one of them to the other they get uncomfortable and moody. So, I assume that it was pretty nasty. I think her motivation for staying is she doesn't want that to happen to our kids. My psychologist believes that I can get full custody of the kids because she believes my wife is an unfit parent. My psychologist has never met her, she bases this on what I have told her. The kids definitely like me better then her, that's mostly because I'm less strict. The last time my wife came back from a business trip the first thing our daughter told her was "It's better when you're not here." My wife cried for a day and a half about that. I don't think she's a horrible parent and I don't want to take our kids away from their mom, that's not fair to her either. If that were to happen it would literally crush my wife, and I honestly don't know how she would react to that. So, here I am, still in my sexless marriage. Maybe I am causing damage to my kids future relationships, I don't know. What I do know right now is I'm not miserable, I'm just not where I want to be. I have good days and bad days just like everyone else. I know that being in the same house with my kids every day is more important to me then having a good relationship. Maybe that's selfish, I don't know. You’ve written out my story for me. My wife is a fantastic mother. I couldn’t ask for any better. We have two children,including one with special needs. He is an absolute handful. If we divorced,there is no telling what the implications would be. That’s why I stay. I don’t think it would be fair to him. I can’t live without my children. They are really the only thing that brings me joy in this world.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 28, 2018 6:43:08 GMT -5
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Post by workingonit on Sept 28, 2018 6:58:57 GMT -5
I have thought about this for a long time. I know that my kids are not getting the healthiest lessons about relationships. But they are not getting cold or abusive or fighting messages either. Our house is still pleasant and we all still have fun together. I too have a child with special needs and hos stability is key to me.
It is so complicated to be us, no?
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Post by iceman on Sept 28, 2018 14:16:13 GMT -5
iceman said: "I actually dislike weekends because I have to spend more time with my wife. It’s exhausting trying to find ways to avoid her for two days every week. " Can you find things to do outside the house with your kids -- things you and the kids enjoy but your wife doesn't? You can say you're giving your wife a break. Otherwise, what's the point of not divorcing since you're doing your best to be out of the house and presumably away from your kids? When I can I try to do things with my kids. But, they are at the age when they have their own interests and often decline my invitation. Driving my son to his activities was a good excuse to be away for long periods of time and I enjoyed doing it. However, he now drives himself so I no longer have that time away. This experience has given me a picture of what life will be like when the kids are away and it scares the crap out of me.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Sept 28, 2018 14:22:47 GMT -5
iceman , my parents divorced when I was 6 years old. Over the years I've heard each of their versions and sides, some is probably revisionist history, but as an adult, and in my own observations, can draw a pretty good conclusion on the many reasons. To this day, I'm glad and grateful that they did not stay married. I have close relationships with both my mom and dad, and they were not good for each other. The plus side is that my dad has been remarried to a woman for 26 years, and I then got to witness and experience what a healthy marriage looks like, growing up with two present parents there, and seeing my dad finally have some peace and happiness in his life. Had my mother and father NOT divorced, who knows if I would have ever witnessed what a real marriage looks like up close. Take from that what you will. I'm adding an edit here -- if they had remained in their unhealthy marriage, I have no doubt the damage it would have done to my fragile self-esteem and need for security as a child. Being removed from that, even part-time, allowed me to flourish and thrive, learning from two people who (still) love each other. Divorce does not damage children; long-term, unhealthy relationships do.
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 28, 2018 21:51:53 GMT -5
For much of my life I have wished my dad had left my mom years ago. I can see how he is a shell of his former self and it has been hard to watch. My three siblings and I have discussed this openly for many years - it’s that obvious. Parents in unhappy marriages are not fooling their children. My siblings and I all love our parents but it is exhausting to be around them. You are right iceman that none of us visit as often because we don’t want to have to deal with the emotional turmoil and fighting. One of the driving factors for me in leaving my SM was the horrible model we were setting for our son. I am another parent of a child with special needs and although leaving made it harder on me physically (since I no longer have a supposed partner), it made it easier on me mentally/emotionally. I believe leaving has made me a better parent. I believe it will also have a better effect on my son than staying would have. However, I DO realize that due to the age of my son (three), it was a bit of an easier choice for me to leave as he is still so young, there is less of on impact on him. I truly don’t know what my decision would have been if I found myself here and at the crossroads of “Stay or Go?” even 5 years later when he’s 8 years old. And that was another driving factor for me leaving quickly: I knew ending the marriage was the right thing and I needed to make it happen before the decision became even harder for me to make.
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Post by solodriver on Sept 28, 2018 23:55:00 GMT -5
My mom made my dad's life a living hell but he was too sick to be able to leave. He depended on her to help get him to appointments and treatments and take care of him when he was too weak to do so. My dad died at the age of 59. The very last time I saw him, he looked so sad and miserable.
This year I realized I am the same age as my dad was at the time. How absolutely miserable my wife was making my life day after day. And I'm not sick. And I decided I didn't want to end up like my dad. I believe that my dad would have left my mom and restarted his life if he could have. I remember seeing my sad dad and I walking on a beach, picking up seashells that he would take back for his room (he and mom had slept in separate rooms for years). That was all the thrill he had in his life at the end.
Something this summer screamed inside me "NO!" I will not end up like that. I want love, passion, desire and someone to share that with. All my wife wants to do is sit in front of the TV until she dies. NOT ME!!
I've started working towards my new "living" life.
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