|
Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Sept 27, 2018 10:49:27 GMT -5
This seems like progress. Well done and well stated. Stick to your guns. So I sent my H a message this aftertoon to say: Not trying to avoid u but I'm struggling to cope in our so-called marriage. You have different priorities/issues that u need to address. I can't keep bringing these to ur attention as i'm just drained by it all. I've realised that I can't change the situation which i have been trying to do for 6+ years and I can't force u to be sexually/intimately/lovingly interested in me. We are clearly on different pages when it comes to our needs which is not sustainable. I have needed the last few days to get my head around things and if we can't resolve things then I think the time has come for me to speak to my parents. I'm not happy and I can't pretend that I am. His response: Thanks for this. We do need to talk this evening. We need to be clear where we are going, want to go and implications of all actions and importantly impact on our kids as well as ourselves and the total devastation this will cause. In my view the minute we involve any other people in our business we will have lost all control of our and our kids' future and it gives them the opportunity to take over our lives. So we have to be very very clear if that's what one/both of us want to do. Soooo in his response nowhere has he indicated to resolve said issue or that he is sorry he has made me feel this way, but is more worried about the impact on involving others. As soon as I make a threat this is how he responds...he is worried about his pride and reputation. I told him that he has not left me with much choice but has just let me down. He responded with: I think if we both could approach tonight's conversation in a positive way we can make progress and give a good chance of progress being maintained. But that relies on us both agreeing what end point we both really want and hoping its the same one. If we are honest We tend not to differ on most things in life. I have said I need to put more time in on us and communicate more and that to be more prioritised on a daily basis in practice. Wish me luck for this evening.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Sept 27, 2018 18:16:14 GMT -5
I'll wish you luck - and offer a suggestion about the discussion.
Don't say or threaten anything that you are not prepared to follow through on, no matter what provocation might come up.
Potentially, your cred is the best tool you have in the box - that if you say something, you mean it, and you'll do it.
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Sept 28, 2018 1:34:51 GMT -5
Had the chat last night and definitely feel better for getting things off my chest. I told my H that this isn’t the marriage I want as well as mentioning a lot of the points made by you all in this thread. He listened attentively and when I challenged him on various areas he couldn’t give me an answer and just stared back at me dumbstruck, realising that his behaviour is wrong.
I made it very clear that this is it and if things go downhill after this then I am not staying. I said it wasn’t a threat and thatbI meant it as I just can’t carry on like this before it completely destroys my wellbeing and starts affecting my mental health.
He said he is going to make more effort etc. I reminded him that he wasn’t like this when we got married, he was always up for it back in the early days and we even used to have phone sex when we were dating. I told him that he had changed so much that from looking at him now I would never believe that I experienced those parts of out relationship with the same person.
I told him to lighten up, enjoy life and not to get caught up in the seriousness of everyday work life. I reminded him that our daily pressures are no more extraordinary or more stressful than any other couple. We have to accept the pressures ie stressful jobs, young children and learn to live with that and still find a way of having a successful intimate and sexually active marriage.
He took this all on board and I know he will try but for him it is now trying to find the balance with timing as he doesn’t want it to come across to me that he is being affectionate because I said so and for that I know he will hesitate and find it hard to make the displays of affection come at the right time. He said he struggles with expressing his love but that it didn’t mean that he doesn’t love me. I told him that I need to hear it and what made him so sure that I knew he loved me when he can’t put anything in action. He got that and said he needed to get better.
So let’s see what happens.
Thanks everyone for all your supportive comments and just being there. It means a lot.
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Sept 28, 2018 22:00:59 GMT -5
Congrats winter123 , that sounds like a really productive conversation. That’s great that you said everything you needed to say and didn’t sugarcoat it. It sounds like he “got” it. Now I guess you just wait to see what he is capable of. I wish you luck with this next step.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Sept 28, 2018 23:39:57 GMT -5
winter123, just make sure you stay the course that you've laid out. Actually that advice is for both you and your husband.
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Sept 29, 2018 17:11:41 GMT -5
winter123, just make sure you stay the course that you've laid out. Actually that advice is for both you and your husband. Thanks I intend to, i’m just not overly optimistic that my H will as he has let me down so many times. He keeps saying he will make more effort and that we need to be a priority but not once has he apologised for making me feel this way. He promised to keep me happy and when I tell him that I am so unhappy in our marriage that it’s eating away at me, he doesn’t even look shocked. When I have these conversations with him I feel that my words are just words. I sense his attitude is like well we’re married, i’ve got her now and we’ve got kids so she isn’t going anywhere. I told him I used to feel trapped that I made my bed and have to lie in it. However his lack of empathy towards the way I feel has firmly confirmed my decision that this is his last chance and if he doesn’t change then forget separate beds, it’s separation full stop. I’m that fed up of waiting for him...can’t do it anymore.
|
|
|
Post by solodriver on Sept 29, 2018 17:44:26 GMT -5
winter123, just make sure you stay the course that you've laid out. Actually that advice is for both you and your husband. Thanks I intend to, i’m just not overly optimistic that my H will as he has let me down so many times. He keeps saying he will make more effort and that we need to be a priority but not once has he apologised for making me feel this way. He promised to keep me happy and when I tell him that I am so unhappy in our marriage that it’s eating away at me, he doesn’t even look shocked. When I have these conversations with him I feel that my words are just words. I sense his attitude is like well we’re married, i’ve got her now and we’ve got kids so she isn’t going anywhere. I told him I used to feel trapped that I made my bed and have to lie in it. However his lack of empathy towards the way I feel has firmly confirmed my decision that this is his last chance and if he doesn’t change then forget separate beds, it’s separation full stop. I’m that fed up of waiting for him...can’t do it anymore. I had the "Final Warning Talk" this past summer with my refuser. And her responses let me down again. So I decided that I was leaving. The next "Talk" I have with her will be the separation announcement. I warned her (for the 3rd time in a year and a half) how very unhappy I was and she always has excuses for why she acts the way she does. So I always gave her the benefit of the doubt and gave her time to do what she needed to do. But nothing ever changed. And the same thing happened this time.
Well nothing is going to change my mind or the course that I'm on. Next summer, I will be leaving. There is no turning back now. I've wasted 20 years of my life and by then it will be almost 21.
In between this time I have to work on myself, try to find things to make ME happy and do other things to keep myself under control. I've emotionally detached myself from her. It gets easier the longer I do it. Also all I have to do is think of all the past 20 years where she has rejected and hurt me without even caring and I will be able to do that when I announce I'm leaving. No tears or crying or anything is going to persuade me. What she will be upset about is that she no longer has the life the way she likes it and she will have to start doing things that I took care of during the marriage.
Oh well, too bad, so sad. I need to be loved, wanted and desired, be with someone who wants me around, be able to share my love and passion for them. My refuser does not want any of those things.
|
|
|
Post by jamesbonding on Sept 29, 2018 18:58:05 GMT -5
So H said to me this morning that I’m avoiding him and not tallking as much and being distant. I said ‘No i’ve just been busy’ and he said ‘No more busier than me’. However he’s been treating me like this for the past 6 years and after 3 days of me giving him a taste of his own medicine, he’s questioning me about it. I think it's a good sign that he noticed your silence and distance. It shows he's paying attention and is not oblivious to what's going on in your relationship. I know it's very hard to instantaneously come up with good responses in situations like that. So, it might help to plan your responses before embarking on some action or change of behavior. In this case, instead of more-or-less lying about the reason for your distance, (that you've "just been busy"), I think it would have been better to be honest and say exactly why. Something like: "You're right, I have been somewhat distant." (It's OK to take a few seconds to gather your thoughts.) "I've become tired of being the one who does most of the work of keeping the connection between us going. Giving you hugs, asking 'How was your day?,' things like that. I'd like you to do more of that. Give me a hug. Ask me how my day was." "Do you remember, a couple years ago, I said I was feeling ignored, like I wasn't an important part of your life? Things got better after that, for a few months, but now it's back to the way it was before. Do you remember how I said, if things keep on as they are now, my love for you would slowly die? Well, it's happening. It's not too late to turn things around, but it is happening. If you want me to stay in this marriage, you need to do more to make me feel wanted and appreciated." "How do you think I feel when you spend an afternoon playing golf, but you don't spend even an hour a week making love with me? Do you like playing golf more than you like spending time with me?" Maybe you can get him to agree that if he doesn't have sex with you at least ___ times a week, he doesn't get to play golf or do the things he wants to do. Hope so! Good luck!
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Sept 30, 2018 1:52:22 GMT -5
So H said to me this morning that I’m avoiding him and not tallking as much and being distant. I said ‘No i’ve just been busy’ and he said ‘No more busier than me’. However he’s been treating me like this for the past 6 years and after 3 days of me giving him a taste of his own medicine, he’s questioning me about it. I think it's a good sign that he noticed your silence and distance. It shows he's paying attention and is not oblivious to what's going on in your relationship. I know it's very hard to instantaneously come up with good responses in situations like that. So, it might help to plan your responses before embarking on some action or change of behavior. In this case, instead of more-or-less lying about the reason for your distance, (that you've "just been busy"), I think it would have been better to be honest and say exactly why. Something like: "You're right, I have been somewhat distant." (It's OK to take a few seconds to gather your thoughts.) "I've become tired of being the one who does most of the work of keeping the connection between us going. Giving you hugs, asking 'How was your day?,' things like that. I'd like you to do more of that. Give me a hug. Ask me how my day was." "Do you remember, a couple years ago, I said I was feeling ignored, like I wasn't an important part of your life? Things got better after that, for a few months, but now it's back to the way it was before. Do you remember how I said, if things keep on as they are now, my love for you would slowly die? Well, it's happening. It's not too late to turn things around, but it is happening. If you want me to stay in this marriage, you need to do more to make me feel wanted and appreciated." "How do you think I feel when you spend an afternoon playing golf, but you don't spend even an hour a week making love with me? Do you like playing golf more than you like spending time with me?" Maybe you can get him to agree that if he doesn't have sex with you at least ___ times a week, he doesn't get to play golf or do the things he wants to do. Hope so! Good luck! Wow that is sound advice thank you. I like the way you have put it - subtle but powerful with a sincere approach in telling my H how his actions are making me feel.
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Oct 1, 2018 4:54:45 GMT -5
So a few days after our chat my H did exactly what I predicted he would - he initiated sex last night. It really annoys me that he doesn’t get it. I had to tell him to stop and to just hold me instead.
As he is at work today i sent him a message saying:
‘About last night i'm mindful that every time we have a chat things improve for a short time and then go back to "our normal" way of living. I am scared of things going back to normal and don't want to get hurt again.
I hate the fact that in our relationship you go from 0-100mph - meaning no affection/intimacy to full on sex. Yes sex is good but I'm finding it hard to be close to you if you don't give me the warm ups in daily life ie affection, kissing, flirting, intimacy, passion....the list goes on.
Right now I don't feel desired or wanted by you even when u initiate sex...because you haven't done anything prior to lead us up to that point. Just because i'm ur wife doesn't mean i'm ever ready for u just when u feel like going all the way.
How about telling me how u feel? What u want to do? How I make u feel? Surprise me? Be less predictable? Win me over with ur affection?
It will lead to a more fulfilling relationship and make it even more special when we make love.
I don't just want sex, i want ur heart.
There's a big mountain to climb up before u can get to the summit. Question is are u willing to put the effort in to climb it?’
He doesn’t seem to understand I want a holistic wholesome relationship. He thinks a bit of sex 5 times a year is adequate and when we do it then things are improving.
If this was me a few months ago i would have gone along with his initiation just because i’m so desperate for his attention but last night I actually told him to stop. He’s worn his trousers (literally) for the past 6 years, i’ll be the one who decides when they come down now.
I’ve realised that just because I want the intimacy it doesn’t mean I have to succumb because it’s being displayed in the way he wants it. In fact this doesn’t even feel like intimacy to me it just feels like sex and thr worst thing is that it is most likely like that for him and he feels he has to do something to please me to get it right after our talk.
He needs to work harder and put in the right effort - the way i do with him, before he can think he can just have sex.
If anyone is in the same situation as me then I think this approach is better in the long run to ensure ur overall relationship can improve and not just by a bit of sex which if ur partner doesn’t have much of a sex drive will all fizzle out quickly and u will be left disappointed.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Oct 1, 2018 18:02:28 GMT -5
This latest exchange reads like a HUGE leap forward Sister winter123 . You've managed to get your point across, provided him with specific things he could do to start pulling his weight, and didn't get drawn into an arguement, and didn't get provoked in to making some threat that you weren't prepared to deliver on. Now, you see what he does. While you are waiting to see what he does, it might be timely to start thinking about what you'll do if he does nothing or very little...and it would probably be a good idea to run the clock on how long you'll wait.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Oct 1, 2018 18:08:43 GMT -5
What if.... He really doesn't know what to do, or how to do it? Please don't ask me to explain it, but several woman have testified on here about their spouses that just can't get beyond only giving a re set, the physical sex only and little else.
What then?
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Oct 2, 2018 0:12:53 GMT -5
This latest exchange reads like a HUGE leap forward Sister winter123 . You've managed to get your point across, provided him with specific things he could do to start pulling his weight, and didn't get drawn into an arguement, and didn't get provoked in to making some threat that you weren't prepared to deliver on. Now, you see what he does. While you are waiting to see what he does, it might be timely to start thinking about what you'll do if he does nothing or very little...and it would probably be a good idea to run the clock on how long you'll wait. Thank you. I definitely feel on the right track. H thought that I had made good points and said that small steps need to be made but not too small. Not entirely sure what he means by the last bit so need to clarify that with him. He messaged me later on in the day whilst he was at work and said that he will come home early to spend time with me. I suggested he could go to the gym as it was a free evening for him but he insisted that he wanted to spend time with me. So things are going in the right direction, they jusy need to be maintained. Oh and the evening was very pleasant - we decided to do something completely random and play a game of cards and then watched a new boxset together. It was nice to be able to connect again - not just physically.
|
|
|
Post by jamesbonding on Oct 2, 2018 1:50:08 GMT -5
So a few days after our chat my H did exactly what I predicted he would - he initiated sex last night. It really annoys me that he doesn’t get it. I had to tell him to stop and to just hold me instead. As he is at work today i sent him a message saying: ‘About last night i'm mindful that every time we have a chat things improve for a short time and then go back to "our normal" way of living. I am scared of things going back to normal and don't want to get hurt again. I hate the fact that in our relationship you go from 0-100mph - meaning no affection/intimacy to full on sex. Yes sex is good but I'm finding it hard to be close to you if you don't give me the warm ups in daily life ie affection, kissing, flirting, intimacy, passion....the list goes on. Right now I don't feel desired or wanted by you even when u initiate sex...because you haven't done anything prior to lead us up to that point. Just because i'm ur wife doesn't mean i'm ever ready for u just when u feel like going all the way. How about telling me how u feel? What u want to do? How I make u feel? Surprise me? Be less predictable? Win me over with ur affection? It will lead to a more fulfilling relationship and make it even more special when we make love. I don't just want sex, i want ur heart. There's a big mountain to climb up before u can get to the summit. Question is are u willing to put the effort in to climb it?’ ... If anyone is in the same situation as me then I think this approach is better in the long run to ensure ur overall relationship can improve and not just by a bit of sex which if ur partner doesn’t have much of a sex drive will all fizzle out quickly and u will be left disappointed. That's a great message, and I think sometimes it's better to to write these things instead of saying them. We can compose written messages more carefully, written messages can have more impact, and we can all (writer and recipient) refer back to those messages in the future to refresh our memories of what was communicated. It also looks like you are making a good start to turning your marriage around. Hope it continues. Don't get complacent! I did things the opposite from you. I first increased the sex frequency. Then I felt, this is nice, but I don't feel like there is enough cuddling and other intimacy. Fortunately, my wife didn't mind cuddling etc. more and was willing to do it, after I asked several times and she finally understood that it was really important to me.
|
|
|
Post by winter123 on Oct 2, 2018 2:38:14 GMT -5
H thought that I had made good points and said that small steps need to be made but not too small. Not entirely sure what he means by the last bit so need to clarify that with him.
So asked H for clarity around the above point and he said he meant that the small steps shouldn’t be too small that neither of us notice them. They should be significant steps of effort where we both notice a real change. Yes they shouldn’t be so small that they take so long to achievr that we never get to where we want.
I thought that was really positive and it also made me realise that I need to reciprocate the effort he puts in too.
|
|