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Post by baza on Sept 4, 2018 1:10:17 GMT -5
“Of the 3 options, this one is the most adventurous.” ...and the most fun 😉 LOL! You know Sister choosinghappy, it occurred to me (after I posted the above) that just about everyone that I know of in here who went the cheating route, has ended up bringing their ILIASM deal to resolution...one way or another...usually by ending it. Funnily enough, despite being in this (and the old EP/ILIASM) group since 2009, I had not noticed that before now !! So despite it being a highly adventurous path, and prone to flying off at unpredicted and unpredictable tangents, and chucking an extra tier of complexity over an already complex situation, it is obviously a super powerful 'agent for change'. It (cheating) appears to have a pretty good track record in bringing (or helping to bring) dysfunctional marriages to resolution.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:00:27 GMT -5
“Of the 3 options, this one is the most adventurous.” ...and the most fun 😉 LOL! You know Sister choosinghappy , it occurred to me (after I posted the above) that just about everyone that I know of in here who went the cheating route, has ended up bringing their ILIASM deal to resolution...one way or another...usually by ending it. Funnily enough, despite being in this (and the old EP/ILIASM) group since 2009, I had not noticed that before now !! So despite it being a highly adventurous path, and prone to flying off at unpredicted and unpredictable tangents, and chucking an extra tier of complexity over an already complex situation, it is obviously a super powerful 'agent for change'. It (cheating) appears to have a pretty good track record in bringing (or helping to bring) dysfunctional marriages to resolution. Outsourcing (the word cheating is derogatory IMHO) is definitely is a game changer. And its effects definitely cannot be predicted - as I am finding out myself. But as I mentioned in another thread, living in an ILIASM shithole is one of the worst possible ways to live. Putting the marriage into a random lottery to find out how it can change - which is what outsourcing really is doing - will usually but not always make things better, if only because things are so bad to begin with there are few ways to make it worse. It is like rolling dice and betting that you will get anything but a one, with each result from 2-6 meaning wildly different and unpredictable results. That is how I am interpreting the poll results, and I think it is accurate based in the stories here.
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Post by baza on Sept 4, 2018 5:31:58 GMT -5
Pretty good summary that @shynjdude . Given what living in an ILIASM deal is like, it is indeed very very difficult to see what one could do to make it even worse.
About the only thing I can think of is a scenario where one cheated (outsourced, call it what you like), got caught, and then your spouse - rather than divorcing you - held it over your head for ever more and continually droned on and on and on about it indefinitely.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 4, 2018 7:22:09 GMT -5
Pretty good summary that @shynjdude . Given what living in an ILIASM deal is like, it is indeed very very difficult to see what one could do to make it even worse. About the only thing I can think of is a scenario where one cheated (outsourced, call it what you like), got caught, and then your spouse - rather than divorcing you - held it over your head for ever more and continually droned on and on and on about it indefinitely. This is exactly what my ex woukd have done to me. So rather than give her a bigger stick to swing at the piñata (yours truly), I cut myself down and hobbled away.
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Post by workingonit on Sept 4, 2018 7:27:31 GMT -5
IDK. This thread makes it sound so great but there are real considerations. In some states it can make divorce more problematic for the "cheater". In the eyes of joint family and friends it can clearly put the outsourcer in the "bad person" category. This may not matter to you but it is not something to disregard causually. I can imagine kids hearing about their cheating parent from all sorts of family members. This can be difficult and confusing for them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 7:44:32 GMT -5
IDK. This thread makes it sound so great but there are real considerations. In some states it can make divorce more problematic for the "cheater". In the eyes of joint family and friends it can clearly put the outsourcer in the "bad person" category. This may not matter to you but it is not something to disregard causually. I can imagine kids hearing about their cheating parent from all sorts of family members. This can be difficult and confusing for them. I am emphatically not recommending it without a clear understanding of the downsides.
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Post by baza on Sept 4, 2018 7:59:15 GMT -5
I'm not endorsing it either. In fact I invariably suggest in regard to this - perfectly valid - option that you treat it with the same seriousness and preparation as you would a divorce. Coz' that's where you are most likely headed anyway. Like staying or leaving, cheating needs to be a fully informed choice. Not some half arsed whim.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 4, 2018 8:20:43 GMT -5
IDK. This thread makes it sound so great but there are real considerations. In some states it can make divorce more problematic for the "cheater". In the eyes of joint family and friends it can clearly put the outsourcer in the "bad person" category. This may not matter to you but it is not something to disregard causually. I can imagine kids hearing about their cheating parent from all sorts of family members. This can be difficult and confusing for them. When ballofconfusion announced her divorce to the kids I advised her to also come clean with the outsourcing. The reason why was because her stbx would have held it over her head not like a club to repeatedly bash her with, but like a sword threatening to bring it down at the worst moment. When her stbx confronted her with it, it was also via email while she was out of town with her daughter and best friend. He asked her where she was planning on living when she got home. Talk about stess! Oh and the husband threatened to tell her AP's wife because it was the "right thing to do". Only extreme pressure from BOC's side prevented that from happening and causing secondary explosions. In the end she did tell the kids. All were stunned and she was seriously worried that two of the four woukd never speak to her again (all went to catholic school and had black and white perspectives on this kind of thing). It took months for the air to fully clear, and that was because her ex is an amazing d-bag - not just to her but to the kids. From my perspective, just starting to date her after this was dicey since I didn't want to associated with it and painted with the same broad brush. We didn't start dating until I was fully out and she had filed. But the kids might not make that fine of a distinction. In the end this worked out. I've met all of her kids and will even be giving the youngest a driving lesson this coming weekend. On the other hand, outsourcing let her understand that the problem wasn't with HER it was with HIM. Why chasing came to an end. I cannot overstate how important this was for her. Outsourcing also helped us tremendously when we got togther and I was the one still struggling with unresolved (and serious) self perception issues. She had already worked through most of hers and was in a position to help me. She also doesn't regret it a bit, even with the stress and drama. So in the end I'm glad she outsourced and I'm glad I didn't. But it sure as hell is more complicated than just a poke in the whiskers, isn't it?
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Post by bballgirl on Sept 4, 2018 8:33:38 GMT -5
IDK. This thread makes it sound so great but there are real considerations. In some states it can make divorce more problematic for the "cheater". In the eyes of joint family and friends it can clearly put the outsourcer in the "bad person" category. This may not matter to you but it is not something to disregard causually. I can imagine kids hearing about their cheating parent from all sorts of family members. This can be difficult and confusing for them. That’s a great point and you have to know the laws in your state as well as the consequences on all levels if you decide to outsource. I was in a SM and faithful for over twenty years, mainly due to naivety and not knowing what I was missing, but it was not a decision I made lightly. For me I was at a point that I wanted a divorce when I decided to outsource and there weren’t any consequences that I couldn’t deal with. In the end outsourcing was a blessing for me. Also a side note, I never considered myself a cheater and probably the reason I never felt guilt, because sex was never an option from Mr Bballgirl and we do not own another person’s sexuality or responsibilities. If I stop cooking meals Mr Bballgirl is free to eat out whenever he wants to or cook for himself. Food and Sex are basic needs. In my POV it’s that simple.
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 4, 2018 9:10:52 GMT -5
I'm not endorsing it either. In fact I invariably suggest in regard to this - perfectly valid - option that you treat it with the same seriousness and preparation as you would a divorce. Coz' that's where you are most likely headed anyway. Like staying or leaving, cheating needs to be a fully informed choice. Not some half arsed whim. I completely agree with this. A "half-arsed whim" is likely to lead to getting caught. I not only took the time to plan but also to really think about whether I would be okay with the consequences or not. And I don't only mean the consequences in regards to potentially having my H find out and the fall-out that could cause, but also whether or not I would be able to handle all the emotions that come along with it - including any guilt I may feel. Just like you have to weigh all the factors that go along with staying or leaving your SM, it would be foolish not to weigh all the factors that could come with outsourcing. For me though, it was the right decision and I wouldn't change a thing. It helped me in many ways. But I also knew my marriage was already headed towards divorce. I wonder, reading this thread, if many who outsource(d) are in the same boat with being ready for a change in their marriage, and willing to be okay with whatever that change may be. If you are not willing to handle whatever change could come your way as a result (including the end of your marriage), I would not advise outsourcing. (Unless you are stellar at covering your tracks.)
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Post by workingonit on Sept 4, 2018 9:29:15 GMT -5
I think if you are really ready to blow up the marriage it may be a better option to wait until at least separation is official. Or be VERY caerful not to get caught. In my tentative exit strategy I am very much counting on an amicable-ish split. I think a pretty surefire way of making a war out of a divorce is to outsource (and be caught). Just another 2 cents.
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Post by shamwow on Sept 4, 2018 10:59:57 GMT -5
I think if you are really ready to blow up the marriage it may be a better option to wait until at least separation is official. Or be VERY caerful not to get caught. In my tentative exit strategy I am very much counting on an amicable-ish split. I think a pretty surefire way of making a war out of a divorce is to outsource (and be caught). Just another 2 cents. And be very sure your PARTNER doesn't get caught (if they are also outsourcing).
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Post by baza on Sept 4, 2018 21:44:01 GMT -5
Brother shamwow makes a key point. Cheating is emotionally and logistically very very difficult. Then, if your "partner in crime" is also in this position, there's a multiplier of X2 straight off...making the management of the situation twice as difficult, and reducing your potential control over the situation by half. Effectively in such a scenario, the chances of something going badly awry is doubled, and your ability to keep a lid on it all is halved. Not that that is going to stop anyone who is determined to give it a whirl. But it is IMPERATIVE that you go in eyes wide open and make a fully informed (as far as it can be under this option*) choice. *- and there are many aspects in this option that are not controllable. For all that though, stories of people here cheating - and getting caught - are pretty uncommon. "Getting caught" does not seem to be a big risk. But then there's the situation like Brother @shynjdude. It appeared he had "gotten away with it" but in fact his missus knew damn well what had happened, and kept the information to herself for use at a later time. Similar thing happened with Brother james as I recall. So just because "as far as you know" you have got away with it, doesn't mean you really have.
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Post by choosinghappy on Sept 5, 2018 9:20:27 GMT -5
Cheating is emotionally and logistically very very difficult. Then, if your "partner in crime" is also in this position, there's a multiplier of X2 straight off...making the management of the situation twice as difficult, and reducing your potential control over the situation by half. While I think that this can sometimes be the case I just want to point out that there are other situations where this is just simply not the reality. Take my relationship with my former local AP for instance: Outsourcing was not emotionally difficult as I developed no feelings for him beyond sexually and in a friendly way. And I had already emotionally checked out of my marriage, just waiting to be able to put my exit plan into place, so there were no tough emotions there either. Logistically it was also quite simple for me as my H was traveling for work over 50% of the time so finding time to meet was easy. As for my AP, he was separated from his wife and had been living alone for a couple years. There was no one checking up on him or anyone to “hide” from so we were able to meet basically whenever our schedules allowed. This also eliminated the risk of any issues on his end with everything blowing up in my face and my H being contacted by an angry wife. Everyone’s situations are different. I think it’s easy (especially if you’ve never gone the outsourcing route) to focus on the negative or more risky examples. But that’s not everyone’s reality. Now add the positives of my experience with increased confidence, self-esteem, fun, AND great sex that more than met my needs and there’s just no way I can say that I regret anything about it. Of course, the downsides CAN be large so everything needs to be weighed and an informed decision needs to be made before proceeding but outsourcing does not always need to be viewed as short term pleasure that inevitably ends up in pain, heartache, or a mess. Mine was longer term pleasure that as of yet still has no downside.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 11:35:36 GMT -5
Wee! I get to buck the trend.
I regret it big time. In my case, I was childish and selfish. Reckless.
I outsourced to an old friend. I made myself miserable. Compromised myself completely. And not only with her. I stole time, money, and other resources from my family, friends, business partner, and employees. I left a wake of destruction behind me a mile wide. I ruined a 40+ year friendship. Ruined a marginally acceptable marriage (hers), that was PLENTY sexual. Might possibly have ruined her life.
I feel compelled to confess this episode of my life to any woman I think might consider getting close to me. I figure she has the right to know this about me. And I don't want to have to worry about it coming out sometime in the future once I've gotten close.
I was never caught.
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