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Post by seekinganswers on Aug 21, 2018 22:54:02 GMT -5
How many of us here are children of parents who were in a SM? Have there been other posts about this (or even a baza poll??) I’ve seen it mentioned here quite a few times. 🙋🏼♀️ Me, for one. I actually didn’t put it all together until about a year ago when I opened up to my mom and sister about how I’m feeling about my marriage. In true fashion I was having a hard time getting the words out, and I said something like, “I’m trying to open up to you guys about something but I’m having a hard time.” And she said, “I know.” I was confused at first because I thought I was successfully putting a smile on the whole time. (A mother’s intuition is fascinating.) But, she went on to say, I know because I lived it. She said that she almost talked to me before I got married and was very conflicted about it. But that ultimately there was so much happiness and excitement at that time, and it’s all so personal, that she decided not to. My husband is also a great guy and gets along with my family really well. I guess it was hard for her to know at that point too. I wonder if I would have even listened. Or have been angry even? Hard to say. Once she explained her story and her decision to stay, I saw their marriage so differently than I ever had. I also saw the clear parallels to my marriage. I think I only subliminally picked up on it growing up - I don’t remember noticing anything overtly. They are both kind, loving people who always showed each other respect and who have always been very compatible. But I can see now that they lacked affection. However - my sister is in a relationship that basically only has passion going for it, and my brother and his girlfriend are very affectionate and have a great well rounded relationship. So who knows, I guess. But is there acorrelation for many of you here?
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 21, 2018 23:15:58 GMT -5
My parents were in a SM. My dad cheated on my mom several times, and by the time I was about 5 or so, they were sleeping in different rooms. In fact, I started sleeping in my mom's bed and my dad slept in my bedroom until when I was in high school. Then my mom transformed another room into her bedroom. The only time I saw my parents affectionate wth each other was once when my dad was going away on a trip, he kissed my mom on the cheek. My brother and I marveled because we'd never seen him do that before. After my dad left, my mom said it was a "Judas kiss." Years later, I realized she said that because my dad was probably going off with a mistress. My parents never even held hands.
At least my refuser ex and I were physically affectionate with each other for years. We held hands, gave each other pats and pecks on the lips. It was only during the last 3-4 years of our 34-year marriage that I was so fed up with the sexlessness that I stopped participating in those kind of gestures. Still, my marriage was better than my parents'. My ex was an involved father with our kids. Unlike my parents, neither my ex nor I was verbally or physically abusive to our spouse.
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Post by baza on Aug 21, 2018 23:41:36 GMT -5
It's the age old debate of "nature" (your core persona) versus "nurture" (the environment you grew up in)
Personally, I believe that you are likely to follow what your parents modelled for you - be that great/average or shithouse.
But that is a personal opinion and as such is worth jack shit. Probably someone here can make a really good case for "nature" being the greater influence. Probably anyone here could quote an example like a kid growing up in an alcohol free environment turning out to be an absolute booze hound. Or a kid brought up in a very adverse environment turning out to be a wonderful person.
Anyway, as it regards ILIAM shitholes, it doesn't greatly matter "why" you are in one, as the resolution method is the same whether it was "nature" or "nurture" that got you into it.
But it is well worth exploring this personal "why" for your next turn at bat. So you don't repeat the error.
And, you probably need to think about what you - in turn - are modelling for YOUR kids. Do you want to risk them repeating your choices ?
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 22, 2018 0:00:42 GMT -5
If you're staying in your SM for your kids, seeing how many of us here were in SMs like our parents may give you reason to get out.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 22, 2018 6:37:44 GMT -5
I’m the opposite. My parents always had an active sex life. Even as kids we knew that their marriage came first. When I told them last year about my sex-free, intimacy-free marriage my mother actually cried because she felt so bad for me. Perhaps the emphasis on connectedness (and sex) in a marriage that I witnessed while growing up is the reason I refused to stay in my SM?? That would also be an interesting “stat” to examine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2018 6:57:59 GMT -5
I do not believe my parents loved each other in any conventional way. I have discussed this a bit in therapy; their relationship was always workmanlike and so has my marriage for the most part. I did not have any role models for what a loving relationship was like. (Add to the fact that they were Holocaust survivors and there is a recipe for a screwed up upbringing, although I think it was remarkably normal considering!) Were they sexless? Maybe. I once walked in on them embracing in bed. That was it. They didn't kiss or touch in front of me. One of my brothers has a loving relationship with his wife, the other has a relationship only for show. I only started finding out what intimate love was from my ex-AP. It was an eye-opener, and it made me crave far more out of my life than I had. It was instrumental in bringing me to the point I am now....wherever that is But the status quo of a functional but non-intimate marriage has got to go, and one way or another, it is happening.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 22, 2018 8:25:32 GMT -5
Nature or nurture? Who knows. Probably a combination.
I just know I wasn't going to continue harming my kids by modeling a clusterfuck of what marriage was.
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thefire24
Junior Member
Posts: 28
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by thefire24 on Aug 22, 2018 8:57:19 GMT -5
I think my parents are a pretty good example of what a loving long term relationship should be. They always seemed to be affectionate and loving. My SO parents on the other hand, not so much. Very religious and they seem much more of a companionate marriage. Might be where some of the issues stem from.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 22, 2018 9:34:06 GMT -5
My parents showed me a loving, affectionate, fun relationship. They held hands, slow danced in the living room, and never came home without kisses and hugs? They cuddled every night during family TV time. They certainly had issues and would argue but the love and affection were real and plentiful.
My H had asexuality shown to him by his mom. His parents divorced and father had multiple partners, affairs, and other kids he also abandoned. Basically a model that sex is toxic to real relationship.
I hate thinking about the model I am giving my kids.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 22, 2018 10:28:19 GMT -5
I’m the opposite. My parents always had an active sex life. Even as kids we knew that their marriage came first. When I told them last year about my sex-free, intimacy-free marriage my mother actually cried because she felt so bad for me. Perhaps the emphasis on connectedness (and sex) in a marriage that I witnessed while growing up is the reason I refused to stay in my SM?? That would also be an interesting “stat” to examine. So the additional responses make me think: I feel like I had a healthy model growing up but my STBX did not. His father was a bit of a sexual deviant (fucked everything that walked when he was drunk by the sounds of it), his mom left him when H was young and then ended up in a physically abusive relationship for many years (that H had to try to manage at a young age) before she eventually left him too. Not the best model for having a healthy marriage himself. ☹️
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Post by Dan on Aug 22, 2018 21:01:11 GMT -5
From my vantage point, my parents had a strong marriage: love and respect. Not that many fights or anything. Lots of happy family memories. All that said: I wouldn't be able to tell you the first thing about their sex lives! I'm pretty sure they had a faithful marriage true to the Catholic ideas of marriage they attempted to teach their kids. Anyway, I really expected a long, happy, faith-based marriage. They set a good pattern. My wife's family was a bit messed up: her father died from alcoholism when she was 10. Three years later her mother remarried an educated man who was a pretty tough curmudgeon, and there was still some alcohol use, so her teen years were NOT a happy family situation. She attributes some of her adult issues to being an ACOA -- adult child of alcoholics. Nonetheless, she really expected a long, happy, faith-based marriage too. (Curiously we are both former Catholics; both converted to a different religion before we met.) Anyway, to seekinganswers 's question: I don't think you are necessarily find a pattern in the anecdotes of ILIASM. I once was convinced that other ACOAs probably have intimacy issues (like my wife) and so I asked if SM members' refuser spouses were. I got a few "yes" replies, but many more "heck I'm ACOA myself and I'm the one craving more sex and intimacy".
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Post by Dan on Aug 22, 2018 21:11:44 GMT -5
From my vantage point, my parents had a strong marriage: love and respect. ... All that said: I wouldn't be able to tell you the first thing about their sex lives! Two odd memories about my parents: 1) I remember when mother was kind of being faux-frisky, she would grab at my father's crotch! And it wasn't subtle... I mean: it was a lunge. It was kind of a joke for her. But she joked about a lot of things she was serious about. My father usually just ducked (or crossed his legs), and seemed to be fine with the joke. Why on earth my good Catholic mother thought that was OK do to in front of the kids, I have no idea! 2) On SOME occasion -- and I can't for the life of me figure out WHAT was going through her head or how we got on the subject -- my mother said to me: "your father and I discussed it, and we mutually agreed that if the other ever had an affair, we wouldn't want to know about it." I have no recollection of any signs that either of them ever did. However, that tiny, tiny seed she planted by telling me this was one of the pavers in the road to me rationalizing my own outsourcing when I got to that point in my marriage.
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Post by baza on Aug 22, 2018 21:36:49 GMT -5
"Nurture" got you into your ILIASM deal. "Nature" got you into your ILIASM deal. A bit of "Nature" and a bit of "Nurture" got you into your ILIASM deal. Or perhaps "none of the above" got you into your ILIASM deal.
Anyway, we're in it.
If you accept that "nurture" could play a role, are you game to take a punt and possibly visit the scourge of an ILIASM deal on your kids ?
Personal anecdote (certainly NOT advice) By the time I left, my youngest was about 17, so he and his brother had been exposed to me and my missus version of marriage for all their formative years. Fast forward to today. My eldest has had only two short term relationships, and I think, is intimidated by women and does't seem to trust them. My youngest is very popular with the womenfolk (and has had more fucks than I've had hot dinners) but is constantly moving on. Neither of them seem particularly "good at relationships". And I personally think that what me and my missus modelled for them did NOT do them any favours.
I will however, lay claim to setting a reasonable example for my kids of how to respectfully end a relationship.
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Post by flashjohn on Aug 23, 2018 9:45:35 GMT -5
My mom once told me she never refused sex to my father. However, they were not affectionate in front of the kids.
I hope I did not harm my daughters by staying with my refuser for so long. However, since she was so verbally abusive, I really feel that it was best for me to stay until they were out of the house. They would have had no freedom if I had not been there. If it had been up to my refuser, neither of them would have ever been allowed to do anything with friends or even have a driver's license. They both seem to be pretty well adjusted, and I am very very proud of both of them.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 23, 2018 13:25:51 GMT -5
My parents showed me a loving, affectionate, fun relationship. They held hands, slow danced in the living room, and never came home without kisses and hugs? They cuddled every night during family TV time. They certainly had issues and would argue but the love and affection were real and plentiful. My H had asexuality shown to him by his mom. His parents divorced and father had multiple partners, affairs, and other kids he also abandoned. Basically a model that sex is toxic to real relationship. I hate thinking about the model I am giving my kids. You may want to give your kids the same model I am. They accept it and accept me, because it is being done and expressed with love and they know it. 1) You are doing everything you can to give them a stable home. 2) Your needs are not being met by your spouse. You want them to have happy fulfilling lives and do not want them to repeat your mistake. Full disclosure, my kids are both high libido. They understand my view more than their mothers. They sympathize with what it would be like to be the refused. I hope your kids feel the same way.
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