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Post by iceman on Aug 14, 2018 13:47:44 GMT -5
Yesterday I called the kids together to discuss an important family matter. Since it was more relevant to me I decided I wanted to discuss it with them without my wife. My wife is fully aware of the topic. There was some confusion about me discussing it alone due to some miscommunication, mainly on my part. So I proceeded without her. She walked in about halfway into the conversation and was obviously upset that I had started but held her tongue and let me finish. Afterwards she laid into me! She was as pissed off as I’ve ever seen her. And she was right!! I deserved every bit of the tongue lashing she gave me. It was a bad idea to go it alone. I should have included her. She told me how hurt she was and that it was just another example of how I show that I don’t want her involved in my life and proceeded to dredge up other examples. I have to confess I have no recollection of most of the events she pointed out. Don’t know if I’m just an oblivious boob or she’s attaching unreasonable meanings to trivial events. Or, I’ll be kind and say she’s not remembering things correctly instead of the harsher view that she’s making shit up. Either way it really doesn’t matter.
She told me again that she doesn’t want the marriage to end but I need to make a decision as to whether I do. And she was right about that as well. We’ve had this conversation many time before. I fully admit that I disengaged from my marriage a few years ago. As I wrote a while back that I now have prostate cancer (the treatment is going quite well) that has caused me to withdraw even more. I don’t want to spend whatever time I have, and I hope it’s a lot, in a bad marriage. She brought that up as well, that I needed to decide if I wanted to go through cancer alone or with somebody. That bothered me, There was nothing about working to make our bad marriage better, just that I wouldn’t have to go through cancer alone. As afraid as I am about my cancer I’d rather get out of my marriage and have some happier times and die ‘alone’, though even if I’m not married I’d still have my kids around.
I feel stuck. I know I should make the very tough decision and leave but I worry about what how my kids would take it. It’s not like they’re young children. They’re 19 & 17 yo but still I worry about what the impact might be. I worry about my wife. She’s not a bad person. We’re just not compatible, never really have been. But me leaving would hurt her a great deal and that bothers me a great deal as well. When she tells me she wants to stay married and that she has feelings for me, even if she she never acts on those feeling iit makes it even more difficult.
I have no real point to all of this I’m just rambling. Thanks for reading ...
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 14, 2018 15:35:59 GMT -5
If she does not want the marriage to end, what does she want? I am sure she likes the perks. Social status? Your income? Stability?
She believes this can keep going on, I am sure, just like my wife thought it could keep going on.
Can it keep going on? Is she right? It is up to you to change it, any which way you want. I asked for an open marriage, twice, and after I was turned down the second time and nothing changed, I stopped asking. I told her. She filed.
In my case, I did not want to divorce until the kids were raised. My kids are about the same age as yours, and doing fine. My bet is your kids already knew something was not right, and they will be ok, too.
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Post by baza on Aug 15, 2018 0:54:04 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother iceman - "She brought that up as well, that I needed to decide if I wanted to go through cancer alone or with somebody. That bothered me...." It would bother me too mate. Implicit in it is that she would not be interested in an amicable parting of the ways, and most certainly would not want to be a person of support to you if she didn't have to be. FWIW, after we split, my missus had a couple of serious health incidents, and I was happy to play a support role for her at those times. Seemed the right thing to do as far as I was concerned, and I did it because I wanted to, not because I felt obligated to. Then she had another incident that tipped her over, and again I helped out (mainly for my adult kids sake) with the arrangements and dealing with her estate etc. I'm not trying to pass myself off as a Saint here, it just seemed basic human decency toward a person I had known most of my adult life. Maybe your missus didn't mean it, or launched without thinking ?? But if she meant it, then it smacks of coercion / manipulation / guilt induction. And that would tend to ADD to the case to offload her, not detract from it. Your kids. They are a sidebar to the main game here, which is you and your missus. They are a very important sidebar, but a sidebar none the less. Their needs have to be respected and taken into account, but they can't be the main driver to your difficult choice. Presumably your missus selfish attitude is limited to you, and she still wants to do what's best for the kids (just like you do) so if you are both on the same page there, you ought be able to shepherd them through the transition without excessive drama.
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Post by time4intimacy on Aug 15, 2018 3:11:29 GMT -5
If you checked out of the marriage a few years ago, either you need to get back in the game of trying to make the marriage work, meaning give it another try or do yourself a favor and move out of the marriage physically, just like you did mentally. Staying in the marriage when you checked out, will never make it better.
I know in my situation, I checked out for a while, now I have my head in the game. I don't know if it will work or not work for me, but at least I am playing the game.
Than you can find someone who is more supportive and can help with those prostate exercises.
Of course all of this is spoken from a guy that seems to suck at his marriage.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 15, 2018 7:21:17 GMT -5
"Family meetings" probably should involve the entire family. Otherwise you may find yourself on the other end of the stick at some point. As someone excluded from such meetings, I can say it is maddening as hell.
As to her supporting you with your cancer, exactly what support is she providing? Is she truly caring for you, or are is she a ride to and from treatment? Your kids and Uber could fill that role without the drama.
As for the kids? They likely already know the marriage is crap. You are probably not fooling anyone. If they are college age and your wife makes significantly less than you do, they can also likely get a ton of money for college if your wife claims them after a divorce.
But you do need to figure out what you want to do. Then figure out how to do it. Then do it. Life really doesn't have to be so damn hard.
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Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:25:58 GMT -5
If she does not want the marriage to end, what does she want? I am sure she likes the perks. Social status? Your income? Stability? She believes this can keep going on, I am sure, just like my wife thought it could keep going on. Can it keep going on? Is she right? It is up to you to change it, any which way you want. I asked for an open marriage, twice, and after I was turned down the second time and nothing changed, I stopped asking. I told her. She filed. In my case, I did not want to divorce until the kids were raised. My kids are about the same age as yours, and doing fine. My bet is your kids already knew something was not right, and they will be ok, too.s It’s a really good question as to why she wants to stay married. I’ve asked her that many times and she never gives a very good answer. She seems to focus on more of the non-romantic/intimate aspects of marriage - continuity, stability, companionship. Etc. She never mentions money but I’m sure one her first concerns should split up would be money. My money. I want those things as well but I need the romantic aspects of marriage much more than those things - affection, sex, just the feeling of being head over heels in love, just wanting to be in same room as her breathing the same air. Im sure she thinks we can go on like this forever. From what I saw and what she’s told me it’s how her parents were. Their marriage was a largely platonic partnership and nothing more. They seemed terribly unhappy but they trundled on for almost 50 years. I think that’s what she expect us to do. The only way I think she would agree that we should end the marriage is if I were turn into a lying, cheating, abusive asshole, and that just not in my DNA. So I’m going to have be the bad guy and initiate the end myself. I think you’re probably right that it won’t really come as a surprise to my kids.
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Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:39:51 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother iceman - "She brought that up as well, that I needed to decide if I wanted to go through cancer alone or with somebody. That bothered me...." It would bother me too mate. Implicit in it is that she would not be interested in an amicable parting of the ways, and most certainly would not want to be a person of support to you if she didn't have to be. FWIW, after we split, my missus had a couple of serious health incidents, and I was happy to play a support role for her at those times. Seemed the right thing to do as far as I was concerned, and I did it because I wanted to, not because I felt obligated to. Then she had another incident that tipped her over, and again I helped out (mainly for my adult kids sake) with the arrangements and dealing with her estate etc. I'm not trying to pass myself off as a Saint here, it just seemed basic human decency toward a person I had known most of my adult life. Maybe your missus didn't mean it, or launched without thinking ?? But if she meant it, then it smacks of coercion / manipulation / guilt induction. And that would tend to ADD to the case to offload her, not detract from it. Your kids. They are a sidebar to the main game here, which is you and your missus. They are a very important sidebar, but a sidebar none the less. Their needs have to be respected and taken into account, but they can't be the main driver to your difficult choice. Presumably your missus selfish attitude is limited to you, and she still wants to do what's best for the kids (just like you do) so if you are both on the same page there, you ought be able to shepherd them through the transition without excessive drama. Well put as usual. I hadn’t thought about that aspect of her comment that she was threatening to completely wash her hands of me should we divorce even if my health goes to hell but you’re right it seems to be very ominous comment. Should the worse happen I feel much more confident that my ex would be much more compassionate and caring than my current wife. I’ve told her about my condition and she seems very concerned and commented that she wishes we lived closer together in case I go downhill. i realize the kids a sidebar in this situation. A very important sidebar but a sidebar nonetheless. I would hope we would be able to work together to do what is best for them and put our differences aside but there’s a part of me that truly worries that she’ll have trouble doing that. There have been too many arguments in which she became very irrational and petty.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 15, 2018 13:53:08 GMT -5
If she does not want the marriage to end, what does she want? I am sure she likes the perks. Social status? Your income? Stability? She believes this can keep going on, I am sure, just like my wife thought it could keep going on. Can it keep going on? Is she right? It is up to you to change it, any which way you want. I asked for an open marriage, twice, and after I was turned down the second time and nothing changed, I stopped asking. I told her. She filed. In my case, I did not want to divorce until the kids were raised. My kids are about the same age as yours, and doing fine. My bet is your kids already knew something was not right, and they will be ok, too.s It’s a really good question as to why she wants to stay married. I’ve asked her that many times and she never gives a very good answer. She seems to focus on more of the non-romantic/intimate aspects of marriage - continuity, stability, companionship. Etc. She never mentions money but I’m sure one her first concerns should split up would be money. My money. I want those things as well but I need the romantic aspects of marriage much more than those things - affection, sex, just the feeling of being head over heels in love, just wanting to be in same room as her breathing the same air. Im sure she thinks we can go on like this forever. From what I saw and what she’s told me it’s how her parents were. Their marriage was a largely platonic partnership and nothing more. They seemed terribly unhappy but they trundled on for almost 50 years. I think that’s what she expect us to do. The only way I think she would agree that we should end the marriage is if I were turn into a lying, cheating, abusive asshole, and that just not in my DNA. So I’m going to have be the bad guy and initiate the end myself. I think you’re probably right that it won’t really come as a surprise to my kids. Just one quibble. It isn't your money. It does belong to both of you. I had to cut a check for 233,000 at one point to get free. If I had thought of it as "my" money I would have lost my mind. That being said, watching how fast she pisses through the stash I worked up to 4 jobs at a time (over a period of 20 years) to earn is a bit frustrating. But that just means she is poor when she gets old or ropes in some other sucker. Either way, she no longer has any claim to what truly is "my" money.
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Post by iceman on Aug 15, 2018 13:54:33 GMT -5
"Family meetings" probably should involve the entire family. Otherwise you may find yourself on the other end of the stick at some point. As someone excluded from such meetings, I can say it is maddening as hell. As to her supporting you with your cancer, exactly what support is she providing? Is she truly caring for you, or are is she a ride to and from treatment? Your kids and Uber could fill that role without the drama. As for the kids? They likely already know the marriage is crap. You are probably not fooling anyone. If they are college age and your wife makes significantly less than you do, they can also likely get a ton of money for college if your wife claims them after a divorce. But you do need to figure out what you want to do. Then figure out how to do it. Then do it. Life really doesn't have to be so damn hard. Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! yes, I’m sure the kids know our marriage is crap. They aren’t blind nor stupid. The financial aspects of a divorce on college is quite valid. My ex made considerably less than me and claimed our daughter. She received a lot more financial aid than if I claimed her.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 15, 2018 13:58:04 GMT -5
"Family meetings" probably should involve the entire family. Otherwise you may find yourself on the other end of the stick at some point. As someone excluded from such meetings, I can say it is maddening as hell. As to her supporting you with your cancer, exactly what support is she providing? Is she truly caring for you, or are is she a ride to and from treatment? Your kids and Uber could fill that role without the drama. As for the kids? They likely already know the marriage is crap. You are probably not fooling anyone. If they are college age and your wife makes significantly less than you do, they can also likely get a ton of money for college if your wife claims them after a divorce. But you do need to figure out what you want to do. Then figure out how to do it. Then do it. Life really doesn't have to be so damn hard. Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! yes, I’m sure the kids know our marriage is crap. They aren’t blind nor stupid. The financial aspects of a divorce on college is quite valid. My ex made considerably less than me and claimed our daughter. She received a lot more financial aid than if I claimed her. She would get even more if your wife were divorced and filing as head of household.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 15, 2018 14:12:03 GMT -5
"Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! "
Do you really want her with you at those appointments? You could say, "no." If you want company, you could invite a friend or another relative.
One thing that caused me to divorce was realizing that I realized that if I became seriously ill, I didn't want my h to be my caregiver nor did I want him to have the responsibility of making decisions on my behalf should I become incapacitated. In fact, I realized that having him in such a position would be stressful, not comforting for me.
Would you be happier without her around as you face your illness?
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Post by iceman on Aug 16, 2018 9:55:53 GMT -5
"Her ‘care’ this far has been going to appointments me with me. Not because I needed a ride she just wanted to go. Usually, I don’t really care if she goes or not and sometimes I prefer that I go alone. I think she was referring to emotional support with her comment which is pretty laughable since she’s never given emotional support at any point in our marriage and it hasn’t changed since I was diagnosed. Shit!!! As I write this I wonder again why I’ve stayed in this marriage so long!!! " Do you really want her with you at those appointments? You could say, "no." If you want company, you could invite a friend or another relative. One thing that caused me to divorce was realizing that I realized that if I became seriously ill, I didn't want my h to be my caregiver nor did I want him to have the responsibility of making decisions on my behalf should I become incapacitated. In fact, I realized that having him in such a position would be stressful, not comforting for me. Would you be happier without her around as you face your illness? I would be happier without her, illness or not.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 16, 2018 10:17:36 GMT -5
If you’d be happier without her, since unhappiness and stress depress one’s immune system, it could be to your advantage to have as little engagement with her as possible. Even going to Health appointments without her would be a step toward this. Do you have friends or relatives whom you could ask to go with you? Having a supportive, loving person by your side could help you heal. When I thought I was having a heart attack, I asked a friend, not my husband to go to the hospital with me.
Life is short. Give yourself the life you want.
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Post by snowman12345 on Aug 18, 2018 5:32:14 GMT -5
Last time I checked, a father has every right to discuss whatever he needs to with his children. A mother has that same right.
The fact that you don't always agree gives you that right.
Children have a right to their parent's opinions and need both to make their own judgement.
You can only get a browbeating from your spouse if you accept it.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 18, 2018 10:25:23 GMT -5
I would be happier without her, illness or not. iceman I am struck by how matter-of-fact this statement is. Listen to yourself.
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