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Post by baza on Aug 1, 2018 5:07:12 GMT -5
Sister seekinganswers ' recent posts have prompted this one. Her deal is a standard ILIASM story of fundamental incompatibility and disconnect with one twist. Nominally you could say she was/is the refuser, and tells the story from that position. But it is essentially the same story of an ILIASM shithole as is seen in here time after time (though these stories are nearly all written by the spouse who is nominally the refused) and the basic ingredients are the same. It seems that Sister seekinganswers is the one most disturbed by the way her deal has played out, and she seems keen to get the thing resolved. Nothing new there, just about everyone who puts their story up here is disturbed about how things have played out, though not everyone wants to bring the situation to resolution....Sister seekinganswers husband being a case in point. The story could be read as Mr @seekinganswer's being an innocent bystander in the process. Sister seekinganswers wants to discuss the situation so he'll discuss it. Then go back to his position of inertia. If she sets up counselling, he'll attend. Then go back to his inert state. Any moves seekinganswers makes, he'll pay lip service to, and then revert to inactivity. But IS he an innocent bystander ? This situation could not have developed without his co-operation. It couldn't have continued without his agreement - reluctant or begrudging agreement is still agreement. It couldn't have sustained itself without his complicity in going along with it. This is not to bag out Mr seekinganswers ... or our Sister seekinganswers either. Point I want to put forward is that Mr seekinganswers owns a fair whack of responsibility for this situation too. At a bare minimum he has been going along with the situation, thus assisting in perpetuating it. It does not read like he has ever dug his heels in and said "enough". He ain't an innocent bystander. In truth, I don't think too many of "us" (the refused) are.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 1, 2018 5:45:02 GMT -5
This is why I find it so helpful when the “refusers” join in here and share their side. It makes me realize just how complicit many of us are/were in our SMs, even while unhappy about it. Resolving your SM certainly takes a butt-load (thanks DryCreek) of introspection. Usually it’s the refused in these situations who are willing to do that internal work. I have to give credit to seekinganswers for being willing and able to look at her situation objectively. (And truly hear what all of us are saying.)
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Post by beachguy on Aug 1, 2018 7:34:52 GMT -5
Personally I think this is a lot of victim blaming. You can make the same case for emotional and even physical abuse. If you dare.
And we do not know what Mr Seekinganswers is thinking. Or doing. Maybe he's had an affair for most of his marriage. Maybe he's quietly preparing his exit plan. Quietly because maybe he learned that here.
You are impressed with Seekinganswer's "attempts" to "solve" her SM. But she is absolutely unwilling to do the only thing that can solve it, short of divorce. So I'm not impressed at all. I'm not sure why she is here or what she expected to accomplish.
"This situation could not have developed without his co-operation. "
Sorry, I call bullshit on that. We are not talking about High School romances where someone throws a hope ring and walks away.
And finally, I don't think I've seen any evidence that seekinganswer's husband is even unhappy about the sexlessness of the marriage. We know too little about him to start writing side stories about him, using him as the poster child to berate all the other refused here.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 1, 2018 8:28:01 GMT -5
I believe that all of the refused are collaborating with their refuser if they are in a long term (1 year or more) sm due to sexually able refusers. I sure was. I denied the problem, ignored the problem, and felt staying was better than leaving.
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thefire24
Junior Member
Posts: 28
Age Range: 36-40
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Post by thefire24 on Aug 1, 2018 9:04:27 GMT -5
I feel complicit in that I didn't address the problem earlier. I missed the signs that things were slowly going wrong, I kept telling myself it's some life event in the way and it will get better. When things really started to tank I should have spoke up earlier and tried harder to address things.
That said my wife was the one shutting things down and not explaining why. Not searching for answers and talking about why she's lacking desire.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 1, 2018 9:10:15 GMT -5
I agree with northstarmom and baza on this one. Part of the hard work I think we all need to do is examine why we have ended up here. It is easy to blame our refusers but we have stayed. Why? What did we get out of it? What about us has allowed us to accept this scenario? I do not think it is blaming as much as it is self awareness and personal growth. I have discovered my own tendencies toward codependency and my desire to keep the peace has allowed me to tolerate neglect for years. Knowing this helps me move forward and lets me know what to look out for in the future on my part. My ability to stick my head in the sand is also something I need to own. Taking responsibility for my part does not fix my SM. Nor does it make my h want to fuck me. But it fixes ME and empowers me to be the best and most actualized person I can be. And will hopefully be a part of a healthy relationship with lots of mutual lust in the future!
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Post by hopingforachange on Aug 1, 2018 9:10:38 GMT -5
I'll agree that I contributed to the dynamic that set things in motion for the SM. Aka, I have my own shit to deal with.
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Post by DryCreek on Aug 1, 2018 9:12:56 GMT -5
“People get the government they deserve”, or thereabouts. I think this also holds some truth in relationships.
That is, things are they way they are because we allowed them to be. In doing so, we are complicit in the situation. Often we failed to call BS in the interest of being tolerant, keeping the peace, avoiding conflict... and over time it goes from being a short-term / one-time thing, to being the new normal. We might have had good intentions, but we handed them the shovel and watched them dig the hole.
There are victims, for sure, but a lot of us are actually co-conspirators in our own situation.
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Post by csl on Aug 1, 2018 11:48:47 GMT -5
“People get the government they deserve”, or thereabouts. I think this also holds some truth in relationships. That is, things are they way they are because we allowed them to be. In doing so, we are complicit in the situation. Often we failed to call BS in the interest of being tolerant, keeping the peace, avoiding conflict... and over time it goes from being a short-term / one-time thing, to being the new normal. We might have had good intentions, but we handed them the shovel and watched them dig the hole. There are victims, for sure, but a lot of us are actually co-conspirators in our own situation. This reminded me of a line from one of my favorite movies, 1776; in it, Ben Franklin warns someone in a debate: "Those who would give up some of their liberty in order to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." So applicable to those abiding their SM.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 1, 2018 14:47:12 GMT -5
Lies lies lies. Our refusers lie to us and we lie to ourselves, but the lies are for different reasons.
I lied to myself to have hope that things would change. I lied to myself to cope while we raised our kids.
My refuser lying was outright fraud, and since fraud is not a part of divorce law, her payoff for this ruse will be astronomical.
I know all that probably makes me sound bitter. I am coping with it just fine, but I am calling it the way I see it.
My latest ban from AVEN was due to my response to a woman who is asexual that wanted to marry her sexual boyfriend. There was so much hard hitting truth in my post, telling her to be honest with both herself and him, that she deleted her comments and probably left the board. I am sorry. The bad advice from the asexual community causes a lot of misery, because they do not in general advocate for honesty.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 15:57:54 GMT -5
There is a tendency to try and make all situations fit one model of relationship dynamics. That's just not possible nor is it fair to someone who is in an abusive situation, the fear involved makes it very difficult to break away. In my case, I'm certainly complicit because the 30-year slide from eh, to worse to bad to none is my fault too. But, the decades slip away don't they? In your 20's you're hopeful that it's a temporary thing based on crap you read about not doing enough housework or income. In your 30's you cut the refuser slack because you're exhausted from babies and toddlers, in your 40's you take a serious run at the "sex is important wtf is going on?" the 50's are just being written.
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Post by ihadalove on Aug 1, 2018 16:53:59 GMT -5
It takes two of course, but I think this is a broad brush being presented here. People change, people wake up and realize what they want later, and in the meantime the rest of life happens. There's also the possible frog in a pot scenario for some people. Others might think this type of situation is normal until they seek information from a place like this.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 1, 2018 17:01:26 GMT -5
Right. We are slowly immersed into a situation we don't want, but, there I go painting with a wide brush again.
If I was told how little intimacy I was going to get if I married the woman I did, I would never have married her. I doubt any of us would marry our refusers if we could have complete knowledge of how it would turn out.
Would our refusers marry us, if they knew what damage they were doing to us?
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Post by shamwow on Aug 1, 2018 18:05:21 GMT -5
Lies lies lies. Our refusers lie to us and we lie to ourselves, but the lies are for different reasons. I lied to myself to have hope that things would change. I lied to myself to cope while we raised our kids. My refuser lying was outright fraud, and since fraud is not a part of divorce law, her payoff for this ruse will be astronomical. I know all that probably makes me sound bitter. I am coping with it just fine, but I am calling it the way I see it. My latest ban from AVEN was due to my response to a woman who is asexual that wanted to marry her sexual boyfriend. There was so much hard hitting truth in my post, telling her to be honest with both herself and him, that she deleted her comments and probably left the board. I am sorry. The bad advice from the asexual community causes a lot of misery, because they do not in general advocate for honesty. Same here, brother. Sure, I lied to myself. I held out false hope way past when I knew it was a forlorn hope that things would improve. But I didn't lie at the altar and then lie about being sexually abused and lie about a medical condition to provide cover for the first lie. Like homicide, there is a dead body in the room, but WHY matters.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 1, 2018 18:07:36 GMT -5
Right. We are slowly immersed into a situation we don't want, but, there I go painting with a wide brush again. If I was told how little intimacy I was going to get if I married the woman I did, I would never have married her. I doubt any of us would marry our refusers if we could have complete knowledge of how it would turn out. Would our refusers marry us, if they knew what damage they were doing to us? My ex would have married me. She got kids and a payday. My needs and health were incidental to that.
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