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Post by workingonit on Jul 17, 2018 7:48:07 GMT -5
In response to ballofconfusion 's post shared above.. This all goes back to not being able to change our partner. And it is heartbreaking. A friend of ours was in a horrible car accident and is paralyzed from the chest down, some limited arm movement but no hand dexterity, in a wheel chair, etc. He cannot feel anything below the nipple line. Needs diapering, etc. I think about his wife often. She did not sign up for this. But she stays and I know she would be judged if she left him. I would have possibly judged her myself. She makes that decision to make her life so much about him every day. And by all reports she is totally whole with it. But she says the most important thing is to insist that she is his wife and not his care taker. She demands help, support, sex etc. He still has sex (yes, I asked for details! Lol) with her and they have conceived 2 children since then. He has figured out how to change diapers and pick up his kids. He even got some grant to get a car he can drive. My point is that couples who are dedicated to each others health and pleasure and vibrancy work with what they are given to give that to each other even if it is hard. That is what so many of us are really missing. Someone who wants us that much. Someone who will get nothing from it but still want our pleasure and want closeness. There are ways to be creative. If sex is triggering for a survivor of abuse work on finding things that are not triggering. Or open the marriage. Or have a sex surrogate. Or use toys or whatever body part is safe for the person. Someone who just wants you to stay but does not want to have to do anything to help you thrive... this is the deeper disconnect in SM. It sounds like your wife wants to do the minimal self work to get things to stay as they have been. My h is similar. Your decision point is what you can live with.
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 17, 2018 20:45:32 GMT -5
I agree with h. If she’s not willing to put effort into therapy to address her sexual issues, she will never be the kind of wife you want. Right now, you are giving up a lot — intimate things that are normal and expected in marriage- and she is with great difficulty offering crumbs of affection that would be appropriate only if you were mere friends. Therapy with a practitioner experienced with helping child sexual abuse survivors heal is the only hope of your wife’s changing her sexual aversion. If having mutually enjoyable sex with your wife is so important to you that you’d choose divorce over remaining in a celibate marriage, tell her that either she gets appropriate counseling or you leave. But don’t say that unless you mean it. Actually this is why I took the step to start the conversation.... Nothing has worked everytime I started talking about it she would gaslight me. Reading ballofconfusions posts started me thinking about the abuse issue. I have a check in conversation once a week and now it will be two weeks and I will try to get the guts to start in the direction of digging my heels in. I am out of town traveling for my job and there has been no communication from her at all. That shows me she is still not willing to make a change. I asked her to communicate when I am out of town. I have to say I have never been so lonely. I think that is one of the hardest things there is no initiation. Maybe that is my trigger my job went from 40% travel to 60%
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 17, 2018 20:48:59 GMT -5
In response to ballofconfusion 's post shared above.. This all goes back to not being able to change our partner. And it is heartbreaking. A friend of ours was in a horrible car accident and is paralyzed from the chest down, some limited arm movement but no hand dexterity, in a wheel chair, etc. He cannot feel anything below the nipple line. Needs diapering, etc. I think about his wife often. She did not sign up for this. But she stays and I know she would be judged if she left him. I would have possibly judged her myself. She makes that decision to make her life so much about him every day. And by all reports she is totally whole with it. But she says the most important thing is to insist that she is his wife and not his care taker. She demands help, support, sex etc. He still has sex (yes, I asked for details! Lol) with her and they have conceived 2 children since then. He has figured out how to change diapers and pick up his kids. He even got some grant to get a car he can drive. My point is that couples who are dedicated to each others health and pleasure and vibrancy work with what they are given to give that to each other even if it is hard. That is what so many of us are really missing. Someone who wants us that much. Someone who will get nothing from it but still want our pleasure and want closeness. There are ways to be creative. If sex is triggering for a survivor of abuse work on finding things that are not triggering. Or open the marriage. Or have a sex surrogate. Or use toys or whatever body part is safe for the person. Someone who just wants you to stay but does not want to have to do anything to help you thrive... this is the deeper disconnect in SM. It sounds like your wife wants to do the minimal self work to get things to stay as they have been. My h is similar. Your decision point is what you can live with. This is why I really have gotten some real help with this forum. Understanding I am not that crazy. You our are right. There is a choice for someone not to fix their issues...
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 17, 2018 20:51:50 GMT -5
"Actually this is why I took the step to start the conversation.... Nothing has worked everytime I started talking about it she would gaslight me. Reading ballofconfusions posts started me thinking about the abuse issue. I have a check in conversation once a week and now it will be two weeks and I will try to get the guts to start in the direction of digging my heels in.
I am out of town traveling for my job and there has been no communication from her at all. That shows me she is still not willing to make a change. I asked her to communicate when I am out of town. I have to say I have never been so lonely. I think that is one of the hardest things there is no initiation. Maybe that is my trigger my job went from 40% travel to 60%"
Sounds like she regards you as an ATM. Her actions are speaking loudly....
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 17, 2018 21:13:35 GMT -5
Sounds like she regards you as an ATM. Her actions are speaking loudly.... Ouch! That would not hurt if I did not feel that way sometimes.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jul 18, 2018 2:07:51 GMT -5
okiedude Once I officially gave up on my marriage I stopped communicating with my traveling H (he also travels for work at least 50% of the time). He taught me how to live without him and I came to the conclusion that my life was easier and smoother when he was gone. And YES, as much as it pains me to admit, he was “the provider” for us and that slowly became his main (perhaps only) role in this family. Before I stopped trying to work on our marriage I would text multiple times a day, often FaceTime at night, email him sweet messages, sneak “I love you” notes into his luggage before he left on another trip... When I gave up hope of our marriage working out I stopped all that. Now, that is just my situation, but could it be she is not as invested in your marriage working out as you assume she is? If she was, she’d be getting her ass to therapy as she’d be more afraid of what she could stand to lose than of what she may uncover about her past.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 18, 2018 2:17:45 GMT -5
In fact your attempt to communicate your way through this has only resulted in her formally codifying the sexless marriage and establishing that she will do nothing on her end to fix it.
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 18, 2018 6:07:36 GMT -5
okiedude Once I officially gave up on my marriage I stopped communicating with my traveling H (he also travels for work at least 50% of the time). He taught me how to live without him and I came to the conclusion that my life was easier and smoother when he was gone. And YES, as much as it pains me to admit, he was “the provider” for us and that slowly became his main (perhaps only) role in this family. Before I stopped trying to work on our marriage I would text multiple times a day, often FaceTime at night, email him sweet messages, sneak “I love you” notes into his luggage before he left on another trip... When I gave up hope of our marriage working out I stopped all that. Now, that is just my situation, but could it be she is not as invested in your marriage working out as you assume she is? If she was, she’d be getting her ass to therapy as she’d be more afraid of what she could stand to lose than of what she may uncover about her past. I don't know what I would do if she did any of that for me.... You were a good wife. Makes me wonder if anyone has a good marriage or if it is always one who works harder and the other that just absorbs. I have always been the romantic one, the giving one. I remember one time I left for the first time in our new house I put notes everywhere to my wife and kids. My my oldest is going to college so I am thinking about moving into his room... Would be a strong show of of things to come. Mitch better than the couch.
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 18, 2018 6:12:13 GMT -5
In fact your attempt to communicate your way through this has only resulted in her formally codifying the sexless marriage and establishing that she will do nothing on her end to fix it. I hope you are incorrect (but deep inside I know you are right). This is the attempt, I feel, I have to make for me.
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catsloveme
Full Member
Dwelling in the possible
Posts: 206
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Post by catsloveme on Jul 18, 2018 8:45:15 GMT -5
In fact your attempt to communicate your way through this has only resulted in her formally codifying the sexless marriage and establishing that she will do nothing on her end to fix it. I hope you are incorrect (but deep inside I know you are right). This is the attempt I feel I have to make for me. Listen to those things you know deep inside. You are strong enough to face them.
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Post by flounder on Jul 18, 2018 14:18:05 GMT -5
I agree with h. If she’s not willing to put effort into therapy to address her sexual issues, she will never be the kind of wife you want. - northstarmom
This. If you really love someone,you will do what it takes to make things work.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 18, 2018 15:40:17 GMT -5
In fact your attempt to communicate your way through this has only resulted in her formally codifying the sexless marriage and establishing that she will do nothing on her end to fix it. I hope you are incorrect (but deep inside I know you are right). This is the attempt I feel I have to make for me. I get it brother. For your own self respect later you need to know you didn't just bail on someone who was a victim of abuse. I had to do the same and it probably cost me an extra 15 years. At some point, though, you will accept that just because she was a victim does not make you responsible for performing lifetime penance for another man's sins. But I get the need to feel you tried. Just don't linger over those check boxes.
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okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by okiedude on Jul 19, 2018 7:04:13 GMT -5
I hope you are incorrect (but deep inside I know you are right). This is the attempt I feel I have to make for me. I get it brother. For your own self respect later you need to know you didn't just bail on someone who was a victim of abuse. I had to do the same and it probably cost me an extra 15 years. At some point, though, you will accept that just because she was a victim does not make you responsible for performing lifetime penance for another man's sins. But I get the need to feel you tried. Just don't linger over those check boxes. It is so hard because after around 20 years of struggle and knowing the pain of my parents divorce I had. It is hard to split the family up. We are in a transition with my oldest going to college. I think he already feels the issues between us but I know he will blame himself if we separated. He has already told me he worries that when he leaves the family will suffer. He is worried for his little brother will have issues because of her and that I will too. I keep telling him he has nothing to do with it and everything will be fine. I don't want that burden on him starting his life. However. I don't think I have another 4-6 years.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 19, 2018 7:30:49 GMT -5
I get it brother. For your own self respect later you need to know you didn't just bail on someone who was a victim of abuse. I had to do the same and it probably cost me an extra 15 years. At some point, though, you will accept that just because she was a victim does not make you responsible for performing lifetime penance for another man's sins. But I get the need to feel you tried. Just don't linger over those check boxes. It is so hard because after around 20 years of struggle and knowing the pain of my parents divorce I had. It is hard to split the family up. We are in a transition with my oldest going to college. I think he already feels the issues between us but I know he will blame himself if we separated. He has already told me he worries that when he leaves the family will suffer. He is worried for his little brother will have issues because of her and that I will too. I keep telling him he has nothing to do with it and everything will be fine. I don't want that burden on him starting his life. However. I don't think I have another 4-6 years. Part of the reason I left was FOR of the kids. At least now they won't have the belief that the fucked (pun intended) image of marriage on display between their mom and I is how marriage should work.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 19, 2018 7:35:12 GMT -5
“He has already told me he worries that when he leaves the family will suffer. He is worried for his little brother will have issues because of her and that I will too. I keep telling him he has nothing to do with it and everything will be fine. I don't want that burden on him starting his life. However. I don't think I have another 4-6 years. “
It is wonderful that you tell your older son that he is not responsible for the family’s welfare. Still, whether or not you divorce, you can’t predict the future nor do your actions totally control it.
For instance, both of my sons grew up in homes with parents who acted lovingly to each other (very little sexbut there was physical affection and respect and consideration) and the kids, coparented well and collaboratively, participated in volunteer work including at the kids’ schools. One son went away to college on a virtually full ride due to scores and academic talents, got into the partying life, flunked out, found employment 3,000 miles from home, over the next 10 years kept partying and eventually got hooked on meth, became homeless, and eventually turned his life around ironically while his parents were divorcing on the other side of the country. Six years later, he lives 200 miles from me, is employed and in a good relationship.
Other son lived at home while volunteering with Americorps after a mediocre high school career in which he performed far below his abilities. Then he went away to college, graduated cum laudecwith awards and since then has succeeded in his career including when the divorce happened a year after he finished college.
People — including our offspring — choose their own paths. I suppose that if I had divorced while older son was in high school, I would have blamed myself for his later behavior. But he really chose his own path. What I’ve seen with my kids leads me to question whether parents who delay divorce until kids are grown are in reality doing anything but prolonging their own misery.
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