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Post by baza on Aug 10, 2018 9:20:52 GMT -5
I remember having a discussion with Brother sleeplessknight about this on EP. I was saying that if I was running an IVF facility and a healthy couple capable of sex presented wanting IVF treatment, they'd go to the bottom of the queue whilst the genuine cases of genuine infertility problems were treated. In my cozy little word, a healthy capable couple would not get a crack at the resources of the clinic at the expense of genuine cases.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 11, 2018 20:20:27 GMT -5
I went through infertility treatments and in the end needed IVF in order to conceive. It took 3 years and a LOT of money, mental anguish, and physical pain. Anyone who is capable of conceiving through sex alone and CHOOSES to endure fertility treatments is insane. I highly doubt couples capable of conceiving without the help of doctors would choose this path once they realize what it truly consists of.
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Post by solodriver on Aug 11, 2018 21:22:28 GMT -5
After my wife's miscarriage, we looked into IVF but decided the cost in time and how long it might take, money, pain and mental anguish we decided against it.
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Post by JMX on Aug 11, 2018 22:50:55 GMT -5
h - sorry. It does feel like a pile-on. I just don’t understand how she does not have conversations with said pregnant friends about how it happened. I mean, I talk about screwing with all of my friends. All the time. We talk about it - all the time!!! I just cannot understand anyone so upset about NOT getting pregnant when her friends do - not getting the advise she needs - get frequently freaky, woman! It is a combination of science and history. It works, when you werk!
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Post by h on Aug 12, 2018 4:50:59 GMT -5
h - sorry. It does feel like a pile-on. I just don’t understand how she does not have conversations with said pregnant friends about how it happened. I mean, I talk about screwing with all of my friends. All the time. We talk about it - all the time!!! I just cannot understand anyone so upset about NOT getting pregnant when her friends do - not getting the advise she needs - get frequently freaky, woman! It is a combination of science and history. It works, when you werk! That's exactly the problem. All her friends got pregnant easily after very few (or even only one) sexual encounters. They didn't have to try for any length of time. One of them is just a year younger than us, just had her third kid and is possibly pregnant with a 4th already. They make it look easy and get her discouraged. She has a very skewed group of friends that don't help my case in that regard. And while I can't be entirely sure about her conversations with them when I'm not around, I don't believe for a second that she talks about sex with them. She's not comfortable talking about sex with anyone. It's taken until this year for her to finally start talking to ME about sex. She doesn't even talk to her gyno doc about sex. I met him one time and got the impression that he thought we were trying to get pregnant but her ovarian cysts were preventing it. I doubt he even has a clue why we don't have children.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 12, 2018 8:01:25 GMT -5
“ And while I can't be entirely sure about her conversations with them when I'm not around, I don't believe for a second that she talks about sex with them. She's not comfortable talking about sex with anyone. It's taken until this year for her to finally start talking to ME about sex. She doesn't even talk to her gyno doc about sex. I met him one time and got the impression that he thought we were trying to get pregnant but her ovarian cysts were preventing it. I doubt he even has a clue why we don't have children.”
I don’t understand how both your wife and YOU are so reluctant to talk about sex. I don’t get how you decided to marry someone who couldn’t even talk about sex. Even asexual and shy people talk about sex even if that “talking” was being an adolescent quietly listening to their friends talking about sex.
You say you want kids. That desire must be much less than your desire not to trouble your wife by very bluntly - so bluntly she has to accept it” telling her the facts of life. If she wouldn’t accept it, your desire for kids must be weak enough that you haven’t divorced and married a fertile woman who wants kids and likes sex.
As for your wife’s friends who state they got pregnant after only a couple of encounters — did they tell you that or did your wife tell you? As utterly stupid as she seems about sex, she could have misinterpreted what they said. For instance, a friend’s 12-year-old congratulated his parents on waiting to have sex. Parents asked what he was talking about. Kid said that since they had their first child 4 years after marriage, he assumed they didn’t have sex until 4 years after they were married. He also assumed they had sex just one time to conceive each kid and those 2 sexual encounters were the only sex they’d had.
YOU could have chosen to let her doctor know how rarely you and your wife have sex. You could have asked the doctor to explain how sexual frequency is related to fertility.
I am curious about what about your wife caused you to love her, marry her and stay with her so long. She sounds like an asexual with a chronic disease. Is it love or could it be pity that you feel for her? Is she healthy enough to be able to parent?
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Post by baza on Aug 12, 2018 8:20:01 GMT -5
The way this thread has developed it is starting to look like you are not taking responsibility for birth control Brother h . Further (and I might be taking this too far - in which case I apologise) that you would not mind too much if you and your missus did have a kid. Please mate, think this through. You (both) really need to have your shit fully sorted out before you go down this path. And if you can't get it sorted out, then it would not be at all wise to add a kid into the mess. The extra strain a kid puts on a marriage requires the marriage to be in real good shape. If it ain't in great shape the extra strain is far more likely to collapse it rather than improve it.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 12, 2018 9:20:35 GMT -5
h, this October 2017 post of yours indicates that your wife's friends do talk about sex with her. It also was a place where you could have asked friend to say how often sexual relations should happen:
"So my W invited her best friend over for dinner this week. They were friends since high school and long before I knew either of them. I had to laugh because somehow the topic of sex came up and her friend started calling out my W right in front of me for not doing her "wifely duties". It was the greatest thing I have ever experienced. I then asked her to tell my W that again.... and again, and again, and again. W was not pleased by that comment. She basically told my W that she was married to me and it was her job and she better start taking care of me because I am a decent guy and didn't deserve to be treated like this. Her own best friend gets it.
I still didn't get any intimate attention since that night but I went to sleep with a huge smile on my face that night and every night since. Had to share that. It's just too funny to keep to myself. 😂""
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Post by ted on Aug 12, 2018 9:49:18 GMT -5
It's a little different to hear a man bemoaning his biological clock, although I'm sympathetic to your desire to have children, h. I think it's great you want to be a dad. You're of the male gender, though, brother! It's got its plusses and its minuses, but one plus is the near absence of a biological clock. If the age in your profile is correct, you've got a *long* window ahead of you in which you can have children. If you desire children, that goes into the what-I-want-out-of-marriage bucket along with the desire for a fulfilling sex life. That implies your partner has to also want kids, your partner has to be willing to produce kids (sex or adoption), and your marriage has to be strong and stable enough to have kids, among other things. If your current marriage doesn't align with your goals for a marriage, now in this additional dimension of being a father, you might reconsider staying in it. You've definitely got time, biologically speaking, to take another shot at a marriage with love, sex, *and* children.
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Post by workingonit on Aug 12, 2018 10:09:06 GMT -5
h I, as you know, am a huge cheerleader for you and Mrs h working it out. I think you have more potential here then most to do this. So you know this 2 cents of mine is coming from a loving place! DO NOT GET HER PREGNANT RIGHT NOW. While the chances are low with infrequent sex and post her health stuff it is NOT ZERO. And really, it does only take once. I do not know anyone for whom having a child improved their sex life. ALSO: Kids are wonderful and amazing and blah blah blah but they add a serious layer of complication if you think you are going to leave your marriage. Be very sure that you are absolutely comfortable with choosing to stay before you have kids. And yes I have to agree with ted on this one. If your marriage goes "tits up" (Gotta love that one baza ) in the next 5 years there is absolutely nothing that would prevent a young, healthy, good looking guy such as yourself from finding someone to be with and have kids with.
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Post by h on Aug 12, 2018 11:09:29 GMT -5
h, this October 2017 post of yours indicates that your wife's friends do talk about sex with her. It also was a place where you could have asked friend to say how often sexual relations should happen: "So my W invited her best friend over for dinner this week. They were friends since high school and long before I knew either of them. I had to laugh because somehow the topic of sex came up and her friend started calling out my W right in front of me for not doing her "wifely duties". It was the greatest thing I have ever experienced. I then asked her to tell my W that again.... and again, and again, and again. W was not pleased by that comment. She basically told my W that she was married to me and it was her job and she better start taking care of me because I am a decent guy and didn't deserve to be treated like this. Her own best friend gets it. I still didn't get any intimate attention since that night but I went to sleep with a huge smile on my face that night and every night since. Had to share that. It's just too funny to keep to myself. 😂"" This was one specific friend and this instance was very out of the ordinary. She didn't want THAT conversation to happen but I followed up a suggestive comment from her friend with an honest response indicating our lack of intimacy and her friend took off and ran with it. Her other (frequently pregnant) friends don't really discuss it much and she isn't comfortable if the conversation turns that direction. Communication about sex is uncomfortable for my W in general.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 12, 2018 11:21:05 GMT -5
h, neither you nor your wife are comfortable talking about sex. Otherwise, you would have told her OB how infrequently you have sex. Sex also would come up in your conversations together and with other couples. That is something that is normal to happen.
Outside of ILIASM, how much do you talk with others about sex?
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Post by h on Aug 12, 2018 11:32:38 GMT -5
It's a little different to hear a man bemoaning his biological clock, although I'm sympathetic to your desire to have children, h . I think it's great you want to be a dad. You're of the male gender, though, brother! It's got its plusses and its minuses, but one plus is the near absence of a biological clock. If the age in your profile is correct, you've got a *long* window ahead of you in which you can have children. If you desire children, that goes into the what-I-want-out-of-marriage bucket along with the desire for a fulfilling sex life. That implies your partner has to also want kids, your partner has to be willing to produce kids (sex or adoption), and your marriage has to be strong and stable enough to have kids, among other things. If your current marriage doesn't align with your goals for a marriage, now in this additional dimension of being a father, you might reconsider staying in it. You've definitely got time, biologically speaking, to take another shot at a marriage with love, sex, *and* children. I'm not really concerned about my own "biological clock" as much as hers. Her clock will run out long before mine. That will be very hard on her if that happens. Despite the rough times we've had, I do still care about her feelings and would like to continue to fix our marriage. We are both interested in having children and have talked about it for years but it just never happened. I know that I am capable of having children for many more decades, but I also know that if I'm too old when it happens, I won't be able to be the kind of father I would want to be. My father was active in my life and able to spend time with me doing things and still does today. If I'm 40 when I have children, I won't be able to keep up with them by the time they're my age. If I have children, I want enough time with them so that when they're adults, they'll remember something other than having to take care of me.
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Post by h on Aug 12, 2018 11:37:24 GMT -5
h, neither you nor your wife are comfortable talking about sex. Otherwise, you would have told her OB how infrequently you have sex. Sex also would come up in your conversations together and with other couples. That is something that is normal to happen. Outside of ILIASM, how much do you talk with others about sex? Until I came here, none. I have several cousins that I talk to now about it, but I don't have any friends that I'm close enough to that sex is a topic of conversation. As for her OBGYN, I only met him once prior to her last surgery.
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Post by ted on Aug 12, 2018 12:12:04 GMT -5
It's a little different to hear a man bemoaning his biological clock, although I'm sympathetic to your desire to have children, h . I think it's great you want to be a dad. You're of the male gender, though, brother! It's got its plusses and its minuses, but one plus is the near absence of a biological clock. If the age in your profile is correct, you've got a *long* window ahead of you in which you can have children. If you desire children, that goes into the what-I-want-out-of-marriage bucket along with the desire for a fulfilling sex life. That implies your partner has to also want kids, your partner has to be willing to produce kids (sex or adoption), and your marriage has to be strong and stable enough to have kids, among other things. If your current marriage doesn't align with your goals for a marriage, now in this additional dimension of being a father, you might reconsider staying in it. You've definitely got time, biologically speaking, to take another shot at a marriage with love, sex, *and* children. I'm not really concerned about my own "biological clock" as much as hers. Her clock will run out long before mine. That will be very hard on her if that happens. Despite the rough times we've had, I do still care about her feelings and would like to continue to fix our marriage. We are both interested in having children and have talked about it for years but it just never happened. I know that I am capable of having children for many more decades, but I also know that if I'm too old when it happens, I won't be able to be the kind of father I would want to be. My father was active in my life and able to spend time with me doing things and still does today. If I'm 40 when I have children, I won't be able to keep up with them by the time they're my age. If I have children, I want enough time with them so that when they're adults, they'll remember something other than having to take care of me. I don't want to undermine your choice and efforts to stay, h, so please ignore this if you find it unhelpful. You need to think more about *you,* brother. I'm hearing an awful lot of "her" and "us." Not thinking enough about you is partly why you're in this SM. You have to bring a you to the table, she has to bring a her to the table, and then maybe that makes an us. You're not going to get anywhere with any of this until you believe you matter. Thank you for the opportunity to project my own faults onto you. As far as being 40 + your kid's age, everything is a tradeoff. You won't be the kind of father you want to be if you have this kids in this marriage in its current form either. Been their, failed that. I think you're overweighting the factor of your own age; you've got many of other factors to incorporate.
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