|
Post by northstarmom on Jul 11, 2018 11:42:38 GMT -5
“During our mini-Talk last night, H asked me what emotional intimacy looks like. I tried explaining as best I could, and I know he was listening because he looked at me like I have 3 heads. In that moment I realized that for someone at 42 years of age who has never experienced emotional intimacy is like trying to explain color to a blind man or the sound of ocean waves or the wind through the trees to a deaf person. It also struck me that how can he even work toward it if he doesn't know what it is? This could take years. If he's even willing (he's not).”
You are right. Trying to teach him emotional intimacy would be like trying to teach a blind man to enjoy rainbows. Impossible.
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jul 11, 2018 12:03:06 GMT -5
How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. An interesting question, and I think the answer might depend on what people are missing. In a couple words, “depth” and “unity”. Vulnerability and trust. Exposing your inner workings, behind the façade that you present to the world. Being able to bare your soul and share your deepest secrets without fear of judgement. Trusting your partner to use that knowledge only for your benefit and protection; never compromising your secrets or using it against you. Dreams, aspirations, fantasies, passions. What excites you. What terrifies you. And sexually... what turns you on; what you really want in bed; and what would really rock your world.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jul 11, 2018 19:19:37 GMT -5
FWIW I offer you this (from a background of membership here for a long time - and an escapee from an ILIASM deal myself 8 years ago) In my time here I have not seen an ILIASM escapee come back here and say "well that was a big mistake and I wish I was back in my ILIASM deal". Not one has ever said they regretted it, baza ? Wow, this is a sad epidemic, for sure. I see you have found your love on the other side, so thanks for sticking around and instilling hope in the rest of us. A cautionary note for you Sister heartbrokengirl . The case for getting out of an ILIASM shithole has to stand up all by itself. That it is in your longer term best interests to not be in an ILIASM shithole. It is a stand alone issue. What happens in your life after that, is an entirely different issue. For me, getting out of my ILIASM deal was one issue, a stand alone issue. And I've not regretted making that choice. From there, my path took me onward, and in another entirely stand alone issue (and pretty much by luck) I ended up in the relationship of my life. But I could just as easily be writing this from the perspective of having got out of my ILIASM deal and presently being single. And I'd be fine with that. I guess my note of caution here is that getting out of your ILIASM shithole guarantees you precisely nothing. What it does, is give you a shot at having a greatly enhanced life (and an enhanced life means different things to different people)
|
|
|
Post by flyingsolo on Jul 11, 2018 19:35:17 GMT -5
Have him read the book "Attached". Either his light will come on after that and he will realize he is avoidant or he won't. At that point he's either going to start working on himself or you have your answer.
|
|
okiedude
Junior Member
Learning to live with my Situation.
Posts: 87
Age Range: 46-50
|
Post by okiedude on Jul 11, 2018 20:20:02 GMT -5
During our mini-Talk last night, H asked me what emotional intimacy looks like. I tried explaining as best I could, and I know he was listening because he looked at me like I have 3 heads. In that moment I realized that for someone at 42 years of age who has never experienced emotional intimacy is like trying to explain color to a blind man or the sound of ocean waves or the wind through the trees to a deaf person. It also struck me that how can he even work toward it if he doesn't know what it is? This could take years. If he's even willing (he's not). How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. This is confusing thing, I think you can put it side by side with love. What is love? I heard it explained that it is the in the realm of the unconscience mind. Your conscience mind is just that the part you understand. The other part is your unconscience mind that deals with your heart beat, dreams and love. That is why we poor love starved people stay in a relationship that we do not receive the love we have back. We endure we cry we fester but we stay. It is in the part we don't fully control..... We love our refusers and can't just throw it away. And we can't understand why they can't give it back. We, just like them can't understand the lack of love.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jul 11, 2018 22:48:13 GMT -5
"Not one has ever said they regretted it, baza ? Wow, this is a sad epidemic, for sure. I see you have found your love on the other side, so thanks for sticking around and instilling hope in the rest of us."
I got out when I got to the point that I'd rather be single for the rest of my life than remain in my empty marriage. I was 60 when I filed and due to my age didn't expect that I would ever find love or even sex again. I had been married for 34 years and with my h for 36. During the last years of my marriage, I started living my life very independently of my h, making friends on my own and participating in social and educational activities on my own. I learned to pay attention to my interests and do things that allowed me to become a person I enjoyed.
I am now 67 and have been for 5 years with the love of my life, a man whom I met through one of my social activities. I'm grateful to have him in my life. However, even if I had remained single, I would still be happier than I was in a marriage in which the love was lost.
|
|
|
Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 12, 2018 11:36:02 GMT -5
Not one has ever said they regretted it, baza ? Wow, this is a sad epidemic, for sure. I see you have found your love on the other side, so thanks for sticking around and instilling hope in the rest of us. A cautionary note for you Sister heartbrokengirl . The case for getting out of an ILIASM shithole has to stand up all by itself. That it is in your longer term best interests to not be in an ILIASM shithole. It is a stand alone issue. What happens in your life after that, is an entirely different issue. For me, getting out of my ILIASM deal was one issue, a stand alone issue. And I've not regretted making that choice. From there, my path took me onward, and in another entirely stand alone issue (and pretty much by luck) I ended up in the relationship of my life. But I could just as easily be writing this from the perspective of having got out of my ILIASM deal and presently being single. And I'd be fine with that. I guess my note of caution here is that getting out of your ILIASM shithole guarantees you precisely nothing. What it does, is give you a shot at having a greatly enhanced life (and an enhanced life means different things to different people) I know that life owes me nothing, and there are no guarantees baza. I just appreciate your testament to the fact that there is freedom on the other side.
|
|
|
Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 12, 2018 11:39:10 GMT -5
However, even if I had remained single, I would still be happier than I was in a marriage in which the love was lost. ^^^This^^^ I am trying to process the possibility of this scenario too. I am pretty outgoing, usually happy-go-lucky and fully confident and happy with myself, so I don't see that it would be an issue for me. Just getting used the idea is what I'm working on now. Glad you found your love northstarmom.
|
|
|
Post by nyctos on Jul 12, 2018 12:50:22 GMT -5
Is there any possibility you could simply move out and then file for divorce? From the sound of things you could end things pretty quickly as a practical matter.
Some places also require a certain period of physical separation before being willing to grant a divorce.
|
|
|
Post by ted on Jul 12, 2018 13:01:17 GMT -5
Is there any possibility you could simply move out and then file for divorce? From the sound of things you could end things pretty quickly as a practical matter. Some places also require a certain period of physical separation before being willing to grant a divorce. If I recall correctly, in Illinois, it's technically two years, but if both parties agree, it can be waved down to 6 months. Get this: the clock starts the last time you had sex! How telling is that?! Sex is, like, something close to the definition of a marriage.
|
|
|
Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 12, 2018 17:59:22 GMT -5
Is there any possibility you could simply move out and then file for divorce? From the sound of things you could end things pretty quickly as a practical matter. Some places also require a certain period of physical separation before being willing to grant a divorce. Thanks nyctos. Technically speaking, our case wouldn't be that difficult. We have no kids, no debt, and our assets include one home, investments, and two cars that are paid off. Unfortunately moving out right now would prove very difficult as I'd have to rent a place on my own (no family nearby or friends that could logistically take me in). I bring in about twice his salary every month, so taking on the mortgage and a rent payment in the Chicago area is just not financially feasible. We do, however, have a lovely guest bedroom that he has been sleeping in for the last week. I believe ted is right -- divorce in Illinois requires a two year separation, 6 months if each person agrees, so minimally looking at 6 months. Made a few calls to lawyers for my first consultations. Our first re-start at couples therapy is next week, which I'm not hopeful that it will result in any improvements long term. Just going through the motions.
|
|
|
Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 12, 2018 22:43:57 GMT -5
How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. An interesting question, and I think the answer might depend on what people are missing. In a couple words, “depth” and “unity”. Vulnerability and trust. Exposing your inner workings, behind the façade that you present to the world. Being able to bare your soul and share your deepest secrets without fear of judgement. Trusting your partner to use that knowledge only for your benefit and protection; never compromising your secrets or using it against you. Dreams, aspirations, fantasies, passions. What excites you. What terrifies you. And sexually... what turns you on; what you really want in bed; and what would really rock your world. Yes! All of this DryCreek. All of this. I sent him this article on emotional and sexual intimacy: goodmenproject.com/featured-content/sexual-vs-emotional-intimacy-do-you-know-the-difference-dg/I sent it not with any hope that things will change, but more of a third-party validation that real intimacy does exist, it is integral to a fulfilling marriage, and this distills it down to plain speak that I cannot adequately express.
|
|
|
Post by beachguy on Jul 13, 2018 6:02:06 GMT -5
How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. An interesting question, and I think the answer might depend on what people are missing. In a couple words, “depth” and “unity”. Vulnerability and trust. Exposing your inner workings, behind the façade that you present to the world. Being able to bare your soul and share your deepest secrets without fear of judgement. Trusting your partner to use that knowledge only for your benefit and protection; never compromising your secrets or using it against you.Dreams, aspirations, fantasies, passions. What excites you. What terrifies you. And sexually... what turns you on; what you really want in bed; and what would really rock your world. If, in a moment of great vulnerability, your partner disclosed that she was never sexually attracted to you, but married you for other reasons, such as your ability to provide, then you would never hold that against her, or ever bring it up again? (I'm trying to separate theory from reality here)
|
|
|
Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2018 9:58:01 GMT -5
If, in a moment of great vulnerability, your partner disclosed that she was never sexually attracted to you, but married you for other reasons, such as your ability to provide, then you would never hold that against her, or ever bring it up again? (I'm trying to separate theory from reality here) In a more practical example, sharing personal weaknesses. “I’m terrified of X”, or “This personal trait is horribly embarrassing to me”, or “I have this horrible life experience that’s shaped who I am”. Things you wouldn’t tell anyone because they could be used to hurt you badly. But you share with this person because a) it’s important for them to understand why you are who you are, and b) because you trust them to use that info for good not evil - to help you and protect you, never to fuck with you.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jul 13, 2018 10:13:49 GMT -5
“If, in a moment of great vulnerability, your partner disclosed that she was never sexually attracted to you, but married you for other reasons, such as your ability to provide, then you would never hold that against her, or ever bring it up again? (I'm trying to separate theory from reality here)”
Since I like sex and want a willing partner, such a statement would be reason for me to end a marriage. If my partner had said that before marriage, we wouldn’t have married.
A partner’s being open and vulnerable would not automatically lead to acceptance. It could lead to a recognition of incompatibility and that could lead to neither wasting more time in a relationship that will never be what they want.
When people are compatible and have similar values honesty and vulnerability increase their closeness even when they reveal things that would repel others. For instance, I know 3 couples that have stayed together and seem just as close after one spouse revealed they needed to undergo a sex change. I wouldn’t stay with such a partner but some are able to continue to stay married.
|
|