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Post by bballgirl on Jul 10, 2018 17:24:10 GMT -5
Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in. I’m sorry you have found yourself here but I hope you can find comfort and support. I recommend that you wait on starting a family and figure out the relationship first. I would definitely throw out the divorce word to warn your H so he knows how serious this is. Marriage is about compromise and he can’t have the marriage he wants but you don’t get the marriage you want. So if whacking off in the shower 4 times a week is what he’s doing then he better compromise and have sex with you at least twice a week. It concerns me more that he is choosing to have sex with himself instead of with you and he needs to rewire himself if he values the marriage. As well if he is going to have sex with you then you need to communicate to him what your expectations are down to the frequency, positions, foreplay, and he better be enthusiastic. He needs to figure out how to become your lover if he wants you to be his wife. Thank you bballgirl. I did mention divorce and I think his Catholic heart almost stopped. This is what spurred him into action last year when I told him things had to improve, and we went to counseling. I thought with the improved communication and less fighting that the lovemaking would follow. More peaceful home, more peaceful bed. That obviously didn't happen. I hadn't thought of being specific in requests for sex. That will definitely be part of the next conversation, which is happening tonight as he's supposed to have scheduled our first therapy session. He's said in the past ideally we would have sex twice per week. Just telling me what I want to hear...? Kids are definitely on the back burner. Trying for that has been my wake up call. Mechanical sex for kids. No fun sex for us...ever... I've read a lot of your responses through the last year bballgirl, and I have to say that your words have given me several ah-ha moments. Thank you :hugs: Hugs right back to you! I would recommend that you write down a list of ten things that you want sexually from him, read it out loud and then ask him if he’s capable of doing these things. Again be specific like: I want you to give me oral or I want more than one round of sex. People that like sex linger in bed so that they can go at it again.
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Post by ted on Jul 10, 2018 18:20:58 GMT -5
Ahhh ted ! Thank you for the kind words. As much as it hurts to know someone else my age has gone through it, it's a huge comfort to hear a survival story. Tell me...what finally got you moving after 4 years? Two things stand out. First, I aggressively worked on myself. I started individual therapy, joined a therapy group, and read a lot of books. I was too nice: agreeable, cowardly, etc.—a doormat—and I thought it was a good thing. So I worked hard to integrate other things into my personality, and to balance out my value system. Second, putting the marriage on the line and giving it time didn't change anything. I'm counting the start of my exit as the day I moved out and told her to expect divorce papers. (Or you could start the clock much earlier, as we had The Talk many times in the years before that.) It was a long time before I filed, however, and even afterwards I stalled the lawyers quite a bit. During these four years, we "tried again" in a few fits and starts, did joint therapy, etc. I just couldn't give up. As for her part, she was indifferent and unemotional, just as she'd been our entire marriage, even though everything was now unmistakably on the line. She was angry at the unfairness of my unilaterally ending the marriage, and she wanted to stay married for all the benefits it brought her. She exhibited no desire or interest in me as a person, emotionally or sexually, nor even any comprehension of what I thought was missing. She may have even stayed separated indefinitely had I permitted it. It was still a marriage to her. So the growing me was able to see the situation for what it was, and finally strong enough to do something about it. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, but here on the other side of it, my reason and my emotions finally agree it was warranted. I'm free, hopeful, and the world is full of potential again.
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Post by baza on Jul 10, 2018 21:17:51 GMT -5
You seem to have the thing pretty well sussed out Sister heartbrokengirl . That's "good" (in as much as you have some certainty about the situation and your way forward) But bloody "awful" (in as much as difficult choices and actions loom large in your immediate future which is no fun at all) FWIW I offer you this (from a background of membership here for a long time - and an escapee from an ILIASM deal myself 8 years ago) In my time here I have not seen an ILIASM escapee come back here and say "well that was a big mistake and I wish I was back in my ILIASM deal". You may well be heading into what you see as 'uncharted waters' in your life post ILIASM, but the evidence of those who have gone before you is that you'll be fine. That's not to say 'without tears and hurt', but fine.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 10, 2018 21:33:14 GMT -5
heartbrokengirl, welcome... we’re sorry you’re here. Sorry, but I’m in more of a “bitter pill” mode today, rather than sugar-coating. A bit of cold perspective... It’s good to hear that kids are on the back burner, but you need to turn the stove off and put away the ingredients. Get back on contraception to prevent against an emotional lapse in judgement. You will need waaay more than a handful of promising conversations to get any sense that things have changed - it takes a lot of runway. Without kids, you have a genuine opportunity to restart your romantic life and live it fully, anywhere you want, no constraints. You’re young. Really. Your early awareness is a gift that most of us didn’t get - learn the hard-earned lesson and don’t make our mistakes. If you let your biological clock drive a bad decision, you can read the stories here of the angst and painful trade offs it causes, whether you stay or leave. As much as it sucks now, fast-forward another 25 years. You’ve distracted yourself with rearing children, while struggling to keep your marriage together for the sake of the kids. Now they’re grown, and you finally have the house to yourself again... with someone who’s blind to the romantic opportunity. You martyred yourself, only to discover that there’s no reward at the end, and the escape path is harder than ever. Don’t focus on today. Think about your life 20 or 40 years from now. Think about the next generation, and what kind of impact your decision has on them. It’s a long life to live without passion and intimacy.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 10, 2018 21:50:50 GMT -5
Ahhh ted ! Thank you for the kind words. As much as it hurts to know someone else my age has gone through it, it's a huge comfort to hear a survival story. Tell me...what finally got you moving after 4 years? Two things stand out. First, I aggressively worked on myself. I started individual therapy, joined a therapy group, and read a lot of books. I was too nice: agreeable, cowardly, etc.—a doormat—and I thought it was a good thing. So I worked hard to integrate other things into my personality, and to balance out my value system. Second, putting the marriage on the line and giving it time didn't change anything. I'm counting the start of my exit as the day I moved out and told her to expect divorce papers. (Or you could start the clock much earlier, as we had The Talk many times in the years before that.) It was a long time before I filed, however, and even afterwards I stalled the lawyers quite a bit. During these four years, we "tried again" in a few fits and starts, did joint therapy, etc. I just couldn't give up. As for her part, she was indifferent and unemotional, just as she'd been our entire marriage, even though everything was now unmistakably on the line. She was angry at the unfairness of my unilaterally ending the marriage, and she wanted to stay married for all the benefits it brought her. She exhibited no desire or interest in me as a person, emotionally or sexually, nor even any comprehension of what I thought was missing. She may have even stayed separated indefinitely had I permitted it. It was still a marriage to her. So the growing me was able to see the situation for what it was, and finally strong enough to do something about it. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, but here on the other side of it, my reason and my emotions finally agree it was warranted. I'm free, hopeful, and the world is full of potential again. No doubt it was the best thing for you. I can read it in your words. Even when you "tried again" and didn't give up, you can look back with no regrets on your part. Thanks for sharing. You give me hope.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 10, 2018 21:57:26 GMT -5
Don’t focus on today. Think about your life 20 or 40 years from now. Think about the next generation, and what kind of impact your decision has on them. It’s a long life to live without passion and intimacy. DryCreek, I literally just had this conversation with my mom about picturing my life in the next 20 or 40 years with each of the two choices. Your thoughts are timely and give me a helluva lot of clarity. I can't thank you enough for the words and painting the picture. I'm blinded by my own heart break right now. I know the grief will soon turn to anger, and then acceptance, as grief always does. I appreciate you helping me to the next step.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 10, 2018 21:59:57 GMT -5
FWIW I offer you this (from a background of membership here for a long time - and an escapee from an ILIASM deal myself 8 years ago) In my time here I have not seen an ILIASM escapee come back here and say "well that was a big mistake and I wish I was back in my ILIASM deal". Not one has ever said they regretted it, baza? Wow, this is a sad epidemic, for sure. I see you have found your love on the other side, so thanks for sticking around and instilling hope in the rest of us.
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Post by tirefire on Jul 10, 2018 22:01:38 GMT -5
Welcome, heartbrokengirl. I'm sorry that life has lead you to our community but still happy to talk to you. Be glad that you are so young and act now. You only get one life and every day that passes is a little slice you can't get back. Take action today and you'll be happier sooner. Just focus on the goal: A fulfilling relationship.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 10, 2018 22:21:25 GMT -5
I got home from work tonight, and he had dinner ready (which is not totally unusual as he loves to cook), and told me that he signed me up for time in a private library, housing many original works of C.S. Lewis (my favorite author) to read some of his writings. This has been within 10 miles of our home for the last 5 years. When I asked why he did that, he said, "Well I know you love his work, so I thought it'd be nice." And then, I shit you not, he was reading "What Women Want" - a book I bought 2 years ago, basically Women 101 - when I came home from a walk later tonight.
If this isn't a reset, I don't know what is. I expect grand overtures before bed tonight, complete with a back rub.
Conveniently the marriage counselors he contact this morning at 8 am had not responded to his request for an appointment as of 10 pm tonight. I'm over my heart break from earlier, and really just feel sorry for him now.
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Post by WindSister on Jul 10, 2018 22:50:04 GMT -5
My heart feels heavy today. Like most dating relationships, it started out fun and exciting. It wasn’t sexless, but mostly because I would initiate, and he would oblige. Not a lot of deep conversations or emotional connection, but I, admittedly, glossed over that. It should have been a red flag. I married him because he was a good person. Honest and hardworking and funny and fun. Definitely a difficult combination to find at his age (36 when I met him, 42 now) – another red flag. Before me, he had only had two other girlfriends, and neither relationship was longer than 6 months. I should have noticed, but I tricked myself into believing it was because he was waiting for the “right one.” It was my first sign that he is fearful (absolutely terrified) of intimacy. Phew. Sounds familiar. (My own life) That's all I have to read... I bet you did have doubt. Did you? I know I did on the day I married. Forget guilt. Forget feeling bad about things. Your life is on the line, don't squander it. If it's not a HELL YES, it's a HELL NO. (Mark Manson). There's more I want to say but I have no time these days. Just, listen to those who have walked this path. I wish you the best.
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nicky
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Post by nicky on Jul 10, 2018 22:59:18 GMT -5
DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN WITH THIS MAN. i agree. if you've outgrown your husband maybe it's time to say goodbye. it was not all bad in the relationship, it's just that you've changed and you want different things now. i know how sad it is to know this is all ending, but if you really love him, you set him free.
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 10, 2018 23:16:52 GMT -5
My heart feels heavy today. Like most dating relationships, it started out fun and exciting. It wasn’t sexless, but mostly because I would initiate, and he would oblige. Not a lot of deep conversations or emotional connection, but I, admittedly, glossed over that. It should have been a red flag. I married him because he was a good person. Honest and hardworking and funny and fun. Definitely a difficult combination to find at his age (36 when I met him, 42 now) – another red flag. Before me, he had only had two other girlfriends, and neither relationship was longer than 6 months. I should have noticed, but I tricked myself into believing it was because he was waiting for the “right one.” It was my first sign that he is fearful (absolutely terrified) of intimacy. Phew. Sounds familiar. (My own life) That's all I have to read... I bet you did have doubt. Did you? I know I did on the day I married. Forget guilt. Forget feeling bad about things. Your life is on the line, don't squander it. If it's not a HELL YES, it's a HELL NO. (Mark Manson). There's more I want to say but I have no time these days. Just, listen to those who have walked this path. I wish you the best. Ah, @windsister, I did have doubt. I remember the moment I had doubt walking down the aisle. The flight from the flight or fight instinct to run when you're unsafe. It hit me like a brick wall. I knew it all along.
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Post by elynne on Jul 11, 2018 1:39:10 GMT -5
Thank you bballgirl. I did mention divorce and I think his Catholic heart almost stopped. This is what spurred him into action last year when I told him things had to improve, and we went to counseling. I thought with the improved communication and less fighting that the lovemaking would follow. More peaceful home, more peaceful bed. That obviously didn't happen. I hadn't thought of being specific in requests for sex. That will definitely be part of the next conversation, which is happening tonight as he's supposed to have scheduled our first therapy session. He's said in the past ideally we would have sex twice per week. Just telling me what I want to hear...? Kids are definitely on the back burner. Trying for that has been my wake up call. Mechanical sex for kids. No fun sex for us...ever... I've read a lot of your responses through the last year bballgirl, and I have to say that your words have given me several ah-ha moments. Thank you :hugs: Hugs right back to you! I would recommend that you write down a list of ten things that you want sexually from him, read it out loud and then ask him if he’s capable of doing these things. Again be specific like: I want you to give me oral or I want more than one round of sex. People that like sex linger in bed so that they can go at it again. More than one round? Those are the things dreams are made of!
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Post by heartbrokengirl on Jul 11, 2018 10:43:42 GMT -5
During our mini-Talk last night, H asked me what emotional intimacy looks like. I tried explaining as best I could, and I know he was listening because he looked at me like I have 3 heads. In that moment I realized that for someone at 42 years of age who has never experienced emotional intimacy is like trying to explain color to a blind man or the sound of ocean waves or the wind through the trees to a deaf person. It also struck me that how can he even work toward it if he doesn't know what it is? This could take years. If he's even willing (he's not).
How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM?
It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2018 11:15:51 GMT -5
During our mini-Talk last night, H asked me what emotional intimacy looks like. I tried explaining as best I could, and I know he was listening because he looked at me like I have 3 heads. In that moment I realized that for someone at 42 years of age who has never experienced emotional intimacy is like trying to explain color to a blind man or the sound of ocean waves or the wind through the trees to a deaf person. It also struck me that how can he even work toward it if he doesn't know what it is? This could take years. If he's even willing (he's not). How would you describe emotional intimacy, ILIASM? It's so intangible, but you know it when you feel it/have it, and it manifests itself outwardly through laughs, and hugs, and hand holding, and conversation, and of course, lovemaking. My off the cuff definition would be deeply caring for someone, wanting to know everything about them, prioritizing their own happiness above your own, wanting to spend as much time together as you can (real or virtual), and knowing they feel the same about you.
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