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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 13:43:15 GMT -5
Shyndude said: “I would be surprised if she could find another partner, though. ” Why? She did find and hold onto you.... I was young and stupid and trying to show my parents that I can make an adult decision despite their accurate misgivings about her. Did I mention stupid?
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 19, 2018 13:58:10 GMT -5
There are plenty of stupid people and people with savior complexes she could choose from. Don’t underestimate her.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 19, 2018 14:02:28 GMT -5
There are plenty of stupid people and people with savior complexes she could choose from. Don’t underestimate her. Really? Where are they? LOL just kidding. I hope.
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Post by saarinista on Jun 19, 2018 14:07:51 GMT -5
@shynjdude Look, if she doesn't want to have sex, you don't have a marriage by your religion's definition or most people's. You have a roommate or friendship situation.
The harsh truth is that even if she'd prefer the social and financial benefits of remaining in a sexless marriage, she doesn't, by the majority of standards, have a moral "right" to do so. I realize that you feel an obligation to her, as I do to my husband, because I too said in God's name "til death do us part" (or is it "til death us do part?" ) but that was perhaps probably predicated on the marriage staying a marriage where fucking was in the forecast.
Logically, there's no reason she should mind getting divorced. But that doesn't mean she won't put up a fight.
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Post by ihadalove on Jun 19, 2018 22:59:13 GMT -5
Caring is one thing, enabling is another. She will have to become more independent (as will you). Think of it this way, if you got hit by a bus tomorrow she would get on somehow, right? She'll survive, whatever level of involvement you end up having with her.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 21, 2018 21:51:35 GMT -5
I must be the only one on the boards with an ex who got along fine after we split. Maybe I was the defunct one in the relationship, then. Oh, wait, I got along fine, too.
Anyway, that was a side thought.
MY 2 cents... at some point you realize you are responsible for your own joy in life and you stop giving that power up to others.
You can care for a person and simultaneously NOT want him or her in your life at the exact same time because we are ultra complex beings capable of endless emotions all at once.
When my dad died I felt immense grief AND joy all at once. I was grateful I shared life with him AND missed him all at once.
I think every one, at some point, has to drop the martyr complex as if we are doing someone a favor by staying with them. I know, I did it, too back in the day. Live and learn from me.... your ex will be just fine! Infact, I think it's cruel to drag someone along who you plan on leaving. Life's Too short.
Just some thoughts.
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Post by WindSister on Jun 21, 2018 21:56:11 GMT -5
When the kids are grown and gone in a few years I don't expect I will think of her much at all. Positively or negatively. This is what my husband says of his ex and what I feel for mine, too. They likely feel the same about us and that's awesome in my book because life goes on and that's a great thing! I'm starting to get neutral towards his ex, too. It took me awhile, but I'm there.
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Post by solodriver on Jun 27, 2018 2:50:43 GMT -5
@shynjdude Look, if she doesn't want to have sex, you don't have a marriage by your religion's definition or most people's. You have a roommate or friendship situation. The harsh truth is that even if she'd prefer the social and financial benefits of remaining in a sexless marriage, she doesn't, by the majority of standards, have a moral "right" to do so. I realize that you feel an obligation to her, as I do to my husband, because I too said in God's name "til death do us part" (or is it "til death us do part?" ) but that was perhaps probably predicated on the marriage staying a marriage where fucking was in the forecast. Logically, there's no reason she should mind getting divorced. But that doesn't mean she won't put up a fight. AMEN sister!
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Post by elynne on Jun 27, 2018 5:51:18 GMT -5
As I try to picture a future without the woman I've been married to for 31 years, a speedbump (not roadblock yet, but something) that I keep running up against is that I still care about my refuser. Even though I know I have documented some pretty bad behavior and I know we are not compatible, I have spent decades caring about her and trying to do things to make her life easier. Sometimes she notices and appreciates it, often not, but in the end she is a big part of my life and of course the mother to my kids. I know that divorce will hurt her a great deal. Her sense of security that comes from her reliable, income producing and even tempered husband is very important to her. We were saving money for retirement. All that is going to disappear. She will be unmoored, depressed, who knows - maybe suicidal. As much as I feel that she resents me, she is utterly dependent on me, emotionally as well as monetarily. When her mind goes in cycles and she's stuck, she knows she can talk things out with me and I can get her out of the cycle so she can move on. I know intellectually that I do not want to be stuck with her until I die, that I deserve happiness on my own, that I deserve to be loved. But I like finding win-win solutions. I HATE knowing that my (only potential) future happiness is based on someone else's definite pain. I HATE hurting people. All my life I'd rather absorb the pain myself than let someone else feel it. (Again, bitterly ironically, my wife would disagree strenuously with that and say that I've caused her unimaginable amounts of pain with my crimes of commission and omission.) Yes, it is possible that after the shock she will get her shit together, get a job, find a rewarding life without being dependent on me. And it is possible she won't, that she'll fall apart. How can I not feel responsible for her? How can I stop caring? After years of being as caring as possible, how do I turn it off? I don't want to hate her. Am I missing something? Maybe you’re missing the fact that taking care of you, of your happiness and choosing to live a more authentic life also gives her an opportunity to do the same. When you are catering to her and helping her manage her emotions she doesn’t have the impetus to grow and develop those underdeveloped parts of herself. She could choose to use this as a catalyst to change her life for the better. But in the end that is her choice. Perhaps the piece that you’re missing is that in the end each of us is responsible for his or her own happiness. When another lays that responsibility on someone else’s shoulders it creates an impossible task for one spouse and the other builds resentment and blame. It becomes the spouse’s fault if she or he is unhappy. You are actually freeing both of you from this unhappy dynamic. What each of you chooses to do with this gift is up to each of you.
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Post by elynne on Jun 27, 2018 5:58:16 GMT -5
As I try to picture a future without the woman I've been married to for 31 years, a speedbump (not roadblock yet, but something) that I keep running up against is that I still care about my refuser. Even though I know I have documented some pretty bad behavior and I know we are not compatible, I have spent decades caring about her and trying to do things to make her life easier. Sometimes she notices and appreciates it, often not, but in the end she is a big part of my life and of course the mother to my kids. I know that divorce will hurt her a great deal. Her sense of security that comes from her reliable, income producing and even tempered husband is very important to her. We were saving money for retirement. All that is going to disappear. She will be unmoored, depressed, who knows - maybe suicidal. As much as I feel that she resents me, she is utterly dependent on me, emotionally as well as monetarily. When her mind goes in cycles and she's stuck, she knows she can talk things out with me and I can get her out of the cycle so she can move on. I know intellectually that I do not want to be stuck with her until I die, that I deserve happiness on my own, that I deserve to be loved. But I like finding win-win solutions. I HATE knowing that my (only potential) future happiness is based on someone else's definite pain. I HATE hurting people. All my life I'd rather absorb the pain myself than let someone else feel it. (Again, bitterly ironically, my wife would disagree strenuously with that and say that I've caused her unimaginable amounts of pain with my crimes of commission and omission.) Yes, it is possible that after the shock she will get her shit together, get a job, find a rewarding life without being dependent on me. And it is possible she won't, that she'll fall apart. How can I not feel responsible for her? How can I stop caring? After years of being as caring as possible, how do I turn it off? I don't want to hate her. Am I missing something? Maybe you’re missing the fact that taking care of you, of your happiness and choosing to live a more authentic life also gives her an opportunity to do the same. When you are catering to her and helping her manage her emotions she doesn’t have the impetus to grow and develop those underdeveloped parts of herself. She could choose to use this as a catalyst to change her life for the better. But in the end that is her choice. Perhaps the piece that you’re missing is that in the end each of us is responsible for his or her own happiness. When another lays that responsibility on someone else’s shoulders it creates an impossible task for one spouse and the other builds resentment and blame. It becomes the spouse’s fault if she or he is unhappy. You are actually freeing both of you from this unhappy dynamic. What each of you chooses to do with this gift is up to each of you. And in your case, you don’t actually have to stop caring, just stop being responsible for things that were never actually your responsibility. You ask some mighty good questions, @shynjdude!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 6:39:15 GMT -5
And you give some mighty good advice, elynne ! Like me, we need to listen to our own advice sometimes.....
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 27, 2018 6:50:34 GMT -5
As I was reading elynne’s reply I was thinking “LISTEN - to yourself” I did the same thing - on EP - giving other people advice that *I* needed to hear. I would “see” what needs to be done, acceptable ways to think of things ... in other people’s situations. And the I would reread my posts. And apply it to my own SM. Mighty good points, elynne. I hope you believe it. And see how it applies to your own situation too.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 27, 2018 10:59:25 GMT -5
Maybe you’re missing the fact that taking care of you, of your happiness and choosing to live a more authentic life also gives her an opportunity to do the same. It seems a bit of self-serving marketing spin, but this has crossed my mind as well. You’re not only freeing yourself to find a better match, but your spouse as well. While they may not see divorce as opportunity, it gives them the chance to find someone who *is* happy with them as they’ve chosen to be. They know you’re unhappy, and that they’re the source of that discontent; whether they care enough to address it, most normal people would be bothered by a sense of inadequacy and regular conflict. Not enough to divorce over it, but it’d surely be a relief to find someone who doesn’t make them feel this way. It’s on them to act upon the opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 11:12:33 GMT -5
Everyone's advice has been very helpful, thanks. In the end I do need to distinguish between caring about someone and taking care of someone.
And I need to prioritize my own life, which is so different from how I've acted for so long. From what I can tell, that is not an unusual problem for people who find their ways here.
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Post by elynne on Jun 27, 2018 11:59:00 GMT -5
As I was reading elynne’s reply I was thinking “LISTEN - to yourself” I did the same thing - on EP - giving other people advice that *I* needed to hear. I would “see” what needs to be done, acceptable ways to think of things ... in other people’s situations. And the I would reread my posts. And apply it to my own SM. Mighty good points, elynne. I hope you believe it. And see how it applies to your own situation too. The similarities aren’t lost on me. Being able to view the issues from a distance and with less emotion provides so much clarity. And as I read and think and answer I learn.
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