|
Post by nyartgal on Jun 7, 2018 21:37:42 GMT -5
Don't worry, this isn't about bacon scented candles and how it's all your fault your spouse would rather insert bamboo under his/her fingernails than insert...well you get the idea...
This is about THE TRUTH.
I've read many stories here lately that involve the following:
"My spouse told me he/she wants to divorce/break up/move out [but I refuse to believe them]."
You do, huh? Why?
What if...your spouse is being honest and you are choosing to ignore the extremely pertinent information being shared with you? What would lead you to believe that they would SAY that and not MEAN it, except that you aren't ready to HEAR it?
Maybe you're thinking, my spouse is manipulative and is just saying that to hurt me. Ok, sure. How about this? What if your spouse is manipulative and wants to hurt you AND IS ALSO being honest about wanting to never see you again?
I've been in a bad, sexless marriage, and I DID bring up divorce way before it happened as a plausible option because I was serious about how unhappy I was. Was I intending to do it? Not yet. Did I want to? No. But I definitely felt "this is so bad one day I will hit the breaking point."
Now I'm in a good, sex-filled marriage, and I never, ever bring up divorce. I never think about getting divorced, it doesn't even enter my mind. Why? Because I'm happy and there's no reason for it to come up! Hence, it never comes up.
Now, I suppose there is the possibility that your spouse, who definitely does NOT want to fuck you and probably complains about many other things having to do with you, your presence, your personality, your earning power, your gardening skills, etc, is ONLY bringing up divorce because hey, you know, ran out of other topics. Just *randomly* popped into their heads, through their larynx and out their mouth into your ears. It means NOTHING. Nothing I tell you!
Or....your spouse is quite simply, telling you your future.
If you are one of the lucky people in this situation, bless your good fortune! For you, kind people, know what's what. And what's coming. And that's you being single (and likely much happier) sometime in the future.
Congratulations! You're getting divorced! Now get prepared, pronto.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Jun 7, 2018 22:33:47 GMT -5
If your spouse treats you with indifference, the chances are really high that they are indifferent to you. If your spouse refuses to sexually engage you, the chances are very high that they do not want to sexually engage you. If your spouse does not treat you as an equal, the chances are extraordinarily high that they do not regard you as an equal. If you 'feel' like your spouse is / has been manipulating you, it is very likely that's because they are / have been manipulating you. If your spouse doe not treat you as a priority consideration, most likely that's because you aren't one of their priorities.
Really, this is not rocket science.
Your spouses actions / inactions are actually very very good communication.
The fact that what they are communicating to you ain't what you'd like to hear does not diminish or devalue the truth of their message.
Often-times in here a member will say something like - "I've tried the scented candles, see through panties, counselling etc etc and although my spouse says they'll try harder, nothing happens". In reality, it is just that what you wanted to happen didn't happen. In fact, PLENTY happened. Mainly that by their inactions they communicated exactly what their position is.
The much vaunted "communication is key" is sometimes selectively applied. Part of it for sure is you saying and doing what you mean. The ignored part of it is "listening to what your spouse is clearly telling you by their actions / inactions"
Chances are that your spouse is communicating to you very clearly, and the failure is in you not listening - or perhaps discounting what you see as it ain't what you want to see.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 7, 2018 23:15:14 GMT -5
In reality, it is just that what you wanted to happen didn't happen. In fact, PLENTY happened. Mainly that by their inactions they communicated exactly what their position is. This ^^ reminds of the thought : "doing nothing IS doing something, saying nothing IS saying something".
|
|
|
Post by mescaline on Jun 8, 2018 11:51:08 GMT -5
Ignoring? No. Avoiding yes, I find it an effective coping strategy. I've got quite good at rarely being alone and awake with her.
Her actions, rather than her voice are what tells me the truth about how she feels, unfortunately I'm the same.
|
|
|
Post by choosinghappy on Jun 8, 2018 12:58:12 GMT -5
Ignoring? No. Avoiding yes, I find it an effective coping strategy. I've got quite good at rarely being alone and awake with her. Her actions, rather than her voice are what tells me the truth about how she feels, unfortunately I'm the same. Ditto. 😕
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 13:32:04 GMT -5
Ignoring? No. Avoiding yes, I find it an effective coping strategy. I've got quite good at rarely being alone and awake with her. Her actions, rather than her voice are what tells me the truth about how she feels, unfortunately I'm the same. I was avoiding my W naturally. When I still wanted to fix things or make the marriage more tolerable, my therapist told me to force myself to spend more time with her, since I know she is desperately lonely. So I did and she seemed to appreciate it. Later on W and I had a discussion about our relationship and what I was getting out of counseling, and I mentioned that here was an example of a change I made for the marriage - that with our dynamics I did want to run away from her, but I was making an effort to make things smoother and to spend more time talking instead of running away since she doesn't like me avoiding her. Yesterday I overheard a conversation my wife had on the phone with her friend about me. She interpreted this episode as evidence that I can't stand being around her, and I thought I was doing her a big favor to eat dinner and talk with her. Wow.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 8, 2018 14:08:49 GMT -5
Ignoring? No. Avoiding yes, I find it an effective coping strategy. I've got quite good at rarely being alone and awake with her. Her actions, rather than her voice are what tells me the truth about how she feels, unfortunately I'm the same. I was avoiding my W naturally. When I still wanted to fix things or make the marriage more tolerable, my therapist told me to force myself to spend more time with her, since I know she is desperately lonely. So I did and she seemed to appreciate it. Later on W and I had a discussion about our relationship and what I was getting out of counseling, and I mentioned that here was an example of a change I made for the marriage - that with our dynamics I did want to run away from her, but I was making an effort to make things smoother and to spend more time talking instead of running away since she doesn't like me avoiding her. Yesterday I overheard a conversation my wife had on the phone with her friend about me. She interpreted this episode as evidence that I can't stand being around her, and I thought I was doing her a big favor to eat dinner and talk with her. Wow. This is a very difficult place to be in, for the both of you. It's like trying to glue back together a window that shattered into a million pieces. Even if it was possible it's going to be weak, full of glue, basically never the same again. The damage is irreparable. I remember the times of forcing myself to spend quality time with each other. Our psychologist would have us wear a wrist band as a sign that said" I want to spend my time with you, I'm available." A brief summary of how it went? We would sit in separate recliners in our bedroom, my W with a book or a computer in her hand, and I would receive "ugh hugh, no, or that's boring" responses to my conversations. Zero action on her part, I knew the ice cold responses my physical actions would receive so why bother with the rejection and humiliation. Honestly it ended up being evidence FOR ME that I could not stand being around her! The tables had turned. The only thing she seemed to appreciate was being able to string along the control as long as possible. Once again yours is an example of your spouse avoiding any blame, and you continuing to be a sitting target and thinking "But I was making an effort to make things smoother and to spend more time talking instead of running away since she doesn't like me avoiding her." Your wife doesn't sound so desperately lonely when she has friends on the phone to talk with about you. Sounds like more bait and switch. She certainly avoids you and has plenty to say to her friends. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I'm reflecting on my own experiences, and it ticks me off to see others go through it.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jun 8, 2018 14:24:43 GMT -5
Shyndude said: “Yesterday I overheard a conversation my wife had on the phone with her friend about me. She interpreted this episode as evidence that I can't stand being around her, and I thought I was doing her a big favor to eat dinner and talk with her.”
It’s similar to a spouses saying they are trying to meet your needs by working hard to allow you to have sex with them. What the refused wants is a spouse who is eager to make love to them, not one who has to remind themselves to make love instead of avoiding you.
Similarly, your wife wants you to look forward to having dinner and conversing with her because you enjoy it. She doesn’t want you to be having to overcome your inclination to avoid her.
What’s going on is evidence you aren’t compatible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 14:36:12 GMT -5
Your wife doesn't sound so desperately lonely when she has friends on the phone to talk with about you. Sounds like more bait and switch. She certainly avoids you and has plenty to say to her friends. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I'm reflecting on my own experiences, and it ticks me off to see others go through it. No, that's not it. She has one friend - an 85 year old friend of her mother's who has never been married and never had sex. They spend hours speaking on the phone every day. And she gets relationship advice from her. She doesn't avoid me. I agree that we are very incompatible, as northstarmom says, but my W is not malicious in this area. (I will probably find out how malicious she can be, though.)
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 8, 2018 14:46:35 GMT -5
Your wife doesn't sound so desperately lonely when she has friends on the phone to talk with about you. Sounds like more bait and switch. She certainly avoids you and has plenty to say to her friends. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I'm reflecting on my own experiences, and it ticks me off to see others go through it. No, that's not it. She has one friend - an 85 year old friend of her mother's who has never been married and never had sex. They spend hours speaking on the phone every day. And she gets relationship advice from her. She doesn't avoid me. I agree that we are very incompatible, as northstarmom says, but my W is not malicious in this area. (I will probably find out how malicious she can be, though.) Actually I am going to respectfully disagree with you, and here's why. It sounds like she is avoiding you by getting on the phone with someone who will agree with her, someone who want's to avoid sex, and intimacy, (and who knows what else) altogether. She now has a triangulation that says "your needs, your voice doesn't matter." Please correct that if it's wrong. I'm not trying to sound like I know better, I'm wanting to point it out to you if it's true, like many others have done for me. PS. My ex had her 85 yr old father living in the house to run to and he would validate everything she had to say, along with her 58 yr old sister.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 14:51:49 GMT -5
No. She enjoys when we spend time together, and she has even shown interest in my thoughts and feelings although 95% of the time she speaks about herself. She'd rather watch TV with me than alone. She certainly avoids touch, but not conversation.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Jun 8, 2018 14:58:57 GMT -5
No. She enjoys when we spend time together, and she has even shown interest in my thoughts and feelings although 95% of the time she speaks about herself. She'd rather watch TV with me than alone. She certainly avoids touch, but not conversation. What you just described is more avoidance on her part . According to you she gives 05% interest in YOUR thoughts and feelings. (You have to decide if your okay with that) She would also watch TV with you so she can take 95% and give 05%. All in selfish conversation. How much of that is her putting up a big wall to shield her from having to submit or compromise?
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jun 8, 2018 15:00:12 GMT -5
Shyndude, I wasn’t saying she avoids talking to you. What I was saying is she avoids sex because she doesn’t enjoy that with you. She likes conversing and dining with you. I thought her read on you sounded accurate. You eat and talk with her over meals to please her, but it’s an effort, not something you look forward to.
“yesterday I overheard a conversation my wife had on the phone with her friend about me. She interpreted this episode as evidence that I can't stand being around her, and I thought I was doing her a big favor to eat dinner and talk with her.”
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 15:15:23 GMT -5
I guess we use different terminology. To me, avoidance is avoiding everything (which is what I would do with her without taking an effort otherwise.) Avoiding only some things while wanting to spend time isn't avoidance to me; it is just part of a more complicated dynamic.
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Jun 8, 2018 15:44:40 GMT -5
My ex was like that. I used to think it was avoidance. Later, when I noticed he did that with everyone, I realized he is self centered.
|
|