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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 12:17:00 GMT -5
But back on topic, the behavior of your ex-spouse, and current spouse reflects on them, not on you. Who treats the person that you’ve sworn to love and respect, the person you’ve sworn to cherish with such disdain? Somebody with a whole lot of underlying and deeply hidden fear of being inadequate is all I can come up with. It would put them constantly on the defensive. It my breaks my heart that someone could treat such good men with such callousness. In fact, it really pisses me off. I agree. But please, please tell me that you see the exact same thing in your marriage, and that it is equally unacceptable.
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Post by shamwow on May 27, 2018 12:48:36 GMT -5
This cartoon captures one way I have been emotionally abused in line with this thread - my being upset at anything is always perceived as an attack, and empathy doesn't exist. Shynjdude & Shamwow - sorry. That sucks. My husband’s ex before me once told h, “and you couldn’t even fix the washing machine like a real man could have.” And that was their last argument and last break up. Irony of all ironies, I’ve fixed our washing machine. Twice! I don’t need him to do it. I just want him to want to take me on top of it, and then give me a kiss before I head out the door to meet with my PhD advisor. 🤣🤣🤣 Like that’s going to happen! But back on topic, the behavior of your ex-spouse, and current spouse reflects on them, not on you. Who treats the person that you’ve sworn to love and respect, the person you’ve sworn to cherish with such disdain? Somebody with a whole lot of underlying and deeply hidden fear of being inadequate is all I can come up with. It would put them constantly on the defensive. It my breaks my heart that someone could treat such good men with such callousness. In fact, it really pisses me off. Honestly, I didn't realize a woman could actually treat me decently until I'd met ballofconfusion. Even almost a year out I still have nightmares about the way my ex made me feel and how she made me feel about myself. I went to the dentist recently and he told me I'm grinding the enamel right off my teeth. Fortunately, though the dreams have decreased in both frequency and intensity. For over 10 months now I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop with ballofconfusion. As we approach a year I grow more and more convinced that shoe isn't coming. It seems impossible to believe but she is a truly amazing woman who won't hurt me and I'm amazing lucky to have her.
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Post by elynne on May 27, 2018 14:46:13 GMT -5
But back on topic, the behavior of your ex-spouse, and current spouse reflects on them, not on you. Who treats the person that you’ve sworn to love and respect, the person you’ve sworn to cherish with such disdain? Somebody with a whole lot of underlying and deeply hidden fear of being inadequate is all I can come up with. It would put them constantly on the defensive. It my breaks my heart that someone could treat such good men with such callousness. In fact, it really pisses me off. I agree. But please, please tell me that you see the exact same thing in your marriage, and that it is equally unacceptable. I saw the parallels as I was typing. I felt indignation at how h so obviously doesn’t love and cherish me, doesn’t honor me. Somehow I’m able to twist that around - part of me knows that there’s something bitter and angry deep in him. But then a mix of wanting to be able to fix it, of wanting to solve it, of so wanting to be loved and accepted, of being ok just as I am now, not having to be thinner or prettier or blonder or taller or better or different in any way. I think that’s one constant with h. I’m never enough. Whatever it is, and it’s always changing, there is always an undercurrent of not good enough. Me: I lost 10 pounds. H: Your thighs are still fat. Me: So and so was really impressed with my Dutch, he said I speak like Queen Maxima. H: Yes, but you’re smart enough you shouldn’t make any mistakes. You should speak better than the average Dutch person. Me: Oh my God! I just got a phone call! My painting won! Out of 4,000 entries! It’s going to hang in the museum de Fundatie!!!! H: Is that the naked self portrait? (Tone of disapproval) Me: (taken down a peg) Um. yes. i forgot about that. The denigration, the put downs, the crap husband part - that’s totally on him. But here’s the part that is messing with my head. I believe him. I believe I’m not good enough as I am now. I believe that I have to try harder, do better. Be better. I believe that my best may be good but it’s not good enough. I believe I need to work harder than everyone else because I should be better than everyone else. Not because I have to be better than others, but to be loved as much as they are I need to work harder at it. I know it’s crazy and illogical and untrue and complete nonsense. But if I’m quiet and tune in, this is what I hear. So yes, h can easily win asshole husband of the year award, but the part of me that isn’t completely furious with him believes that’s how I deserve to be treated. Here’s another crazy question... if I had had the good sense or luck to marry a kinder, gentler spouse. Someone who believes in building up instead of tearing down their spouse - would I still be in the same boat? Would I have turned them into someone like my husband? I know how nuts this must sound, but what if I’m fundamentally flawed somehow. Oh! Crazy flashback! H and I were talking about one of his exes and a mutual friend of ours. I said, I worried how S tended to get involved with men with huge issues, drug addict, theif, compulsive liar, etc. I said, she’s beautiful, smart, has a great job. Why does she date men who treat her so badly (little did I see the foreshadowing of my own life!)? H said, “She brings out the worst in people.” I was like WTF?!!! S did not turn D into a speed freak. He had drug problems before they started dating. S did not make what’s his name a compulsive liar. He lied to everyone. You couldn’t trust a word he said. Didn’t matter if he was dating S or not. He was lying. But argh. He was blaming our friend - for the way the men she dated treated her and acted. I was blaming her choice of men and wondering why she didn’t choose people more worthy of her. Oh my. I’ve totally lost the thread. Sorry for the multiple digressions. Kids are in bed, glass of Chardonnay in my hand and I’m trying to peer into the abyss and sort out all my answers in one night. 🙄
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Post by bballgirl on May 27, 2018 14:59:35 GMT -5
elynne The fact alone that he called your legs fat I'd divorce his ass so quick or as quick as you can. Your H is a piece of shit asshole. We allow people to treat us poorly. When you start having value for yourself then you will be ready to kick him to the curb. Not for nothing- what is your example showing your daughters about what a confident woman should act like? Sorry if it's harsh but your H gets me angry. Individual therapy will be very helpful and if your husband asks what the therapist said then tell him she said you are an asshole.
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Post by elynne on May 27, 2018 15:00:57 GMT -5
elynne The fact alone that he called your legs fat I'd divorce his ass so quick or ass quick as you can. Your H is a piece of shit asshole. We allow people to treat us poorly. When you start having value for yourself then you will be ready to kick him to the curb. Not for nothing- what is your example showing your daughters about what a confident woman should act like? Sorry if it's harsh but your H gets me angry. Individual therapy will be very helpful and if your husband asks what the therapist said then tell him she said you are an asshole. 🤗
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Post by elynne on May 27, 2018 15:22:44 GMT -5
elynne The fact alone that he called your legs fat I'd divorce his ass so quick or ass quick as you can. Your H is a piece of shit asshole. We allow people to treat us poorly. When you start having value for yourself then you will be ready to kick him to the curb. Not for nothing- what is your example showing your daughters about what a confident woman should act like? Sorry if it's harsh but your H gets me angry. Individual therapy will be very helpful and if your husband asks what the therapist said then tell him she said you are an asshole. He gets really hurt when he’s called an asshole. Could it be because he’s afraid he really is one? If someone calls me an asshole - I can admit - yes that was an asshole thing to do. But in general, I’m thoughtful, I go out of my way for others, I’m friendly and kind. If I’m being an asshole that’s a huge anomaly. I can handle being called an asshole because I know I’m not. I don’t think h is so certain.
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Post by WindSister on May 27, 2018 15:30:31 GMT -5
elynne, I second what bballgirl said and more than anything I wish you'd wake up to your powerful self. You don't need a guy like that but until you believe it yourself, you'll just go around and around this mountain. I sincerely hope you are among the women who get off that loop and create a better path for yourself.
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Post by bballgirl on May 27, 2018 15:31:26 GMT -5
elynne The fact alone that he called your legs fat I'd divorce his ass so quick or ass quick as you can. Your H is a piece of shit asshole. We allow people to treat us poorly. When you start having value for yourself then you will be ready to kick him to the curb. Not for nothing- what is your example showing your daughters about what a confident woman should act like? Sorry if it's harsh but your H gets me angry. Individual therapy will be very helpful and if your husband asks what the therapist said then tell him she said you are an asshole. He gets really hurt when he’s called an asshole. Could it be because he’s afraid he really is one? If someone calls me an asshole - I can admit - yes that was an asshole thing to do. But in general, I’m thoughtful, I go out of my way for others, I’m friendly and kind. If I’m being an asshole that’s a huge anomaly. I can handle being called an asshole because I know I’m not. I don’t think h is so certain. Bingo! If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... Look play nice to prepare yourself so that you come out if this strong and again the individual therapy is a great idea.
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Post by DryCreek on May 27, 2018 15:43:41 GMT -5
The denigration, the put downs, the crap husband part - that’s totally on him. But here’s the part that is messing with my head. I believe him. I believe I’m not good enough as I am now. I believe that I have to try harder, do better. Be better. I believe that my best may be good but it’s not good enough. I believe I need to work harder than everyone else because I should be better than everyone else. Not because I have to be better than others, but to be loved as much as they are I need to work harder at it Hmmm, yes... I have a small parallel to your story and have pondered some of the same questions. I'm generally unremarkable to W, whether it's affection, a career achievement, or a fresh haircut; she's not denigrating, but nothing impresses or excites her. On one hand, it's driven me to greater introspection and higher aspirations; in some respects, I'm a better person for it. On another, it strangles my passion. There is a fear of failure and disapproval that discourages risk-taking when my gut says otherwise. I've often wondered what life could have been. Would I have been so inspired to achieve without obstacles to overcome? Or would I have been propelled to greater things by the passion of an amazing relationship? I would have tried and failed many more times, but I probably also would have seized several opportunities that later proved to be massive successes. It's said that Einstein and Tesla produced their most revolutionary works during periods when they were having crazy amounts of sex. That makes for a pretty good case. And a great hypothesis to test!
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Post by northstarmom on May 27, 2018 16:01:16 GMT -5
“ I saw the parallels as I was typing. I felt indignation at how h so obviously doesn’t love and cherish me, doesn’t honor me. Somehow I’m able to twist that around - part of me knows that there’s something bitter and angry deep in him. But then a mix of wanting to be able to fix it, of wanting to solve it, of so wanting to be loved and accepted, of being ok just as I am now, not having to be thinner or prettier or blonder or taller or better or different in any way. “
A reason you continue along the path that brings you such pain is you won’t see your therapist enough. That’s why she basically fired you. Once a month was not enough. Until you care and respect yourself enough to give yourself every opportunity to heal from your abusive childhood you will continue to complain about your husband but after you vent, you will forget your concerns and instead try to pretzel yourself into getting the love you want from him.
Your therapist was right to call you on what you do. You are a classic help rejecting complainer. Look at how long is the thread you started and how many people have taken the time to offer support and advice including things easy to do such as see a therapist more frequently. You are choosing to let yourself down again and again. No one has unlimited time. Wait too long and you will be too old or ill or something else will happen that will make it impossible to break free of your abusive marriage. Saw that happen with my mom who ended up having to be the caretaker of a man she loathed.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 16:01:29 GMT -5
Hmmm, yes... I have a small parallel to your story and have pondered some of the same questions. I'm generally unremarkable to W, whether it's affection, a career achievement, or a fresh haircut; she's not denigrating, but nothing impresses or excites her. On one hand, it's driven me to greater introspection and higher aspirations; in some respects, I'm a better person for it. On another, it strangles my passion. There is a fear of failure and disapproval that discourages risk-taking when my gut says otherwise. I've often wondered what life could have been. Would I have been so inspired to achieve without obstacles to overcome? Or would I have been propelled to greater things by the passion of an amazing relationship? I would have tried and failed many more times, but I probably also would have seized several opportunities that later proved to be massive successes. It's said that Einstein and Tesla produced their most revolutionary works during periods when they were having crazy amounts of sex. That makes for a pretty good case. And a great hypothesis to test! There have been famous (but disputed) studies that show that when teachers have high expectations of students, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy - and vice versa. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effectYes, a minority of famous people have personalities that allow them to want to prove themselves despite what people think and overcome obstacles to achieve great things. But I think most people rise to, or sink to, the expectations given to them by others. And this includes, especially, spouses, unless we are aware of how we are being manipulated. So I think for most people a spouse who is admired by their partner will want to rise up to meet those expectations, and the one who is disparaged has a more difficult job to overcome the negativity.
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Post by elynne on May 27, 2018 17:02:17 GMT -5
“ I saw the parallels as I was typing. I felt indignation at how h so obviously doesn’t love and cherish me, doesn’t honor me. Somehow I’m able to twist that around - part of me knows that there’s something bitter and angry deep in him. But then a mix of wanting to be able to fix it, of wanting to solve it, of so wanting to be loved and accepted, of being ok just as I am now, not having to be thinner or prettier or blonder or taller or better or different in any way. “ A reason you continue along the path that brings you such pain is you won’t see your therapist enough. That’s why she basically fired you. Once a month was not enough. Until you care and respect yourself enough to give yourself every opportunity to heal from your abusive childhood you will continue to complain about your husband but after you vent, you will forget your concerns and instead try to pretzel yourself into getting the love you want from him. Your therapist was right to call you on what you do. You are a classic help rejecting complainer. Look at how long is the thread you started and how many people have taken the time to offer support and advice including things easy to do such as see a therapist more frequently. You are choosing to let yourself down again and again. No one has unlimited time. Wait too long and you will be too old or ill or something else will happen that will make it impossible to break free of your abusive marriage. Saw that happen with my mom who ended up having to be the caretaker of a man she loathed. I’m starting weekly psychotherapy. There’s a waiting list - it’ll be 2 to 3 months before a spot opens. But as soon as one opens it’ll be every week without fail. I can sense your frustration that I’m not moving through this more quickly - and believe me- I’m also frustrated and confused and angry. I go through stages where I feel emboldened, where I’m angry or feeling righteous. But it’s a process. I use ILIASM as a journal, a diary, as therapy, a mirror, a support group. I probably post more than the average member. I turn to you guys instead of my husband for validation, support, with questions. It must seem like I’m continuing to run headlong into the same wall from the outside, but on the inside I’m listening. I’m learning, I’m puzzling out all of the emotional baggage and crap from h, and from a less than ideal childhood. In the 3 months since I’ve joined ILIASM I’ve come a long way. I’ve got a long way still to go, but I think calling me a ‘classic help rejecting complainer’ is off base and insensitive. I’m working through my shit, at the fastest pace I can muster. I’m not sticking my head in the sand. I’m listening to the truths and advice members share. If it fits, I own it. Even if it’s unpleasant or painful. Yes, I complain. But I’m complaining with the goal of insight and personal growth and having my gut feelings and instincts reflected back to me so that I start to trust them. It would be a hell of a lot easier if we could dump our story on here, get a prepackaged answer “this is what you should do” and off I go to do it. But humans don’t work that way. We have to understand, we have to test the theory, we have to begin to believe it, and then internalize it. Only then does real change start to take place. And my therapist broke up with me, not because I was complaining and doing nothing about it, but because I’ll be starting psychotherapy weekly with a therapist covered by my insurance. If she suggested something I jumped in with both feet. If our marriage counselor gave us an assignment, I gave it my full effort. I’ve gotten a lawyer, I’ve followed up on my citizenship, I’ve opened a secret bank account and started saving. I’ve been researching rental houses and apartments, looking at neighborhoods, and mortgage lenders, I’ve made a complete budget of what I need for monthly expenses. I’ve made copies of all of our financial documents, tax returns, statements from the last 4 years and delivered them to my lawyer. I’m not an idiot, I’m not hopeless and I’m not helpless. But I really am struggling. I still believe that this is the correct forum to share my struggles and to work through them. And I’m going to tell it like it is. Even if it’s not pretty. Even if I seem to be flip-flopping and waffling. I will get to a point where I make a decision and I own it. It’ll be my decision based on my goals for my future. It may not be fast enough for you. And I’ll deal with that. Because underneath your sometimes harsh words, you speak out of frustration because you want to prevent my pain and my heartache and my hurt. But you can’t. This is my row to hoe. I’ve got to walk each step. Live it. Feel it. Handle it. Learn from it. Grow. And hopefully heal the old hurts that let my husband manipulate me and make me doubt myself. He’s got his own old hurts that cause him to act the way he does. But those aren’t my concern. He may choose to face them and clean them up or not. My focus right now is learning to put myself first. Learning to listen to what I want.
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Post by jim44444 on May 27, 2018 17:58:21 GMT -5
elynne, I have nothing to contribute to this thread that has not been already eloquently presented by yourself and others. However, you said Now my insatiable curiosity has overridden my pretend maturity and I am googling that information. BTW, congratulations.
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Post by elynne on May 27, 2018 23:55:16 GMT -5
elynne, I have nothing to contribute to this thread that has not been already eloquently presented by yourself and others. However, you said Now my insatiable curiosity has overridden my pretend maturity and I am googling that information. BTW, congratulations. You don’t have to pretend to be mature for me! If you have trouble finding the painting let me know. I can send you some photos. 😉
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Post by elynne on May 28, 2018 3:23:52 GMT -5
elynne, I have nothing to contribute to this thread that has not been already eloquently presented by yourself and others. However, you said Now my insatiable curiosity has overridden my pretend maturity and I am googling that information. BTW, congratulations. You don’t have to pretend to be mature for me! If you have trouble finding the painting let me know. I can send you some photos. 😉 The painting is a triptych in the shape of an icon. The outside is the portrait viewed through the shower doors. The inside is the exact same painting without the mist and water drops. (a detail of the inside). It’s a pretty cool painting. It felt right to be able to close it and ‘protect’ and to choose when to open it, to be vulnerable and exposed.
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