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Post by nyartgal on Apr 29, 2018 9:02:32 GMT -5
I'm a million percent for people working on their marriages, because at the very least it's very important to feel like you have tried everything. That way if it doesn't work, you won't have any regrets.
I'm also a million percent for it when the spouse also recognizes an issue/issues and also wants to work on them! That is great.
I think there is a big difference in "people who decide to stay" and people who are actively working TOGETHER on their marriages. Many people stay in shitty marriages regardless of sex and never work on their issues. That is called acceptance of unhappiness. Which is a legitimate choice.
One commonality in ILIASM is that most people wind up realizing that sex was a symptom and not the actual cause of their marital dysfunction. For example, my ex had a lot of unresolved emotional issues which led him to be extremely passive aggressive, and prob the reason for his ED---and that's why he withheld sex. The lack of sex was just a symptom.
My H now is 32 and recently saw a friend from back home who said everyone he knows who has kids has stopped having sex. EVER. So we are talking about a lot of 30-35 year olds who are otherwise healthy and attractive in SM's! Those are the kinds of people who may have a much better chance of fixing things IF THEY BOTH TRY. Because it's really hard to have energy for sex when you have little kids, jobs, etc. I know this from personal experience! But normal lack of ideal frequency is not the same as celibacy!
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Post by bballgirl on Apr 29, 2018 9:07:47 GMT -5
I wanted to add to this thread in regards to regrets: When surfergirl asked the question I wanted to respond with a simple none but I thought that would be flippant so I waited to have a better answer. My answer is still "none" and after a year and a half I wanted to get back with my ex and my answer is still none and divorce was the right thing to do. In the initial text I sent my ex asking if he would want to try again, I stated that divorce was the right thing and I don't regret it. Without the divorce we would not be where we are today. It is often said "the only regrets in life are the things that we do not do". Trust me I still have a list of things I want to do but divorcing a man that wasn't treating me the way I WANTED to be treated was not going to be on that list. When I moved out and I rented for two years, I was so happy. I was free. In the courtroom on the day of my divorce I was smiling from ear to ear, not everyone was but this was the right thing. Most people divorce and their finances get worse mine got better because I was in control and did not have someone with a gambling problem preventing me from paying bills. I actually have a savings account now with more money in it than my checking. WindSister and baza - that made me laugh reading "I thought she was fucking nuts" because at times I wondered if I wasn't nuts! We are divorced you don't do this. Am I selling out the forum? Is this Stockholm Syndrome? I couldn't worry about what others think I have to do what is right for me. I was the one standing in front of a classroom of students trying to hold back tears because I missed my ex. I felt like I had nothing to lose because we were already divorced. I researched articles on people getting back with an ex. I examined my own psyche and what I wanted at this stage of my life - so I did a lot of soul searching before I made my choice/decision. The ex had changed and I changed too. I learned to be more assertive and stick up for myself better. The ex had more responsibility that was forced on him by the divorce. So we were different people coming back together into a different situation but we have a lot of history and still have love in our hearts for each other. It's not passionate romantic love though we did snuggle in bed a little this morning but it's affectionate and unconditional- it's different. To address the sex issue most of you know I have a fwb, an amazing lover. I tried dating during the two years I was living on my own and I learned a lot about myself. It turns out I'm extremely independent and at this stage of my life I don't want a man in it and around my kids other than the father of my children. The dating thing got old quick and there were men who were interested and wanted something more with me but I didn't with them. Sex - I'm content with amazing sex a couple of times a month. This may change when I'm older and my kids are launched. I may not be happy with Mr. Bballgirl ten years from now, he may be dead or I might be dead but I have to live in the here and now and right now I am happy. So in summary No regrets, divorce was the right thing.
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Post by misssunnybunny on Apr 29, 2018 9:10:22 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. There are definitely two such cases - Sisters @smartkat and Caris , both fairly regular contributors to the group. Possibly a 3rd misssunnybunny (tho I think she now days is happier than she was in her ILIASM deal, but not necessarily ecstatically happy) They may be reticent to discuss this, as they may figure that they'd get a heap of advice about 'what they should do' which they don't particularly want - and they're probably right. I have zero regrets leaving my marriage. I could have stayed and been materially happy for the rest of my life, but I was an emotional wreck. It took a long time to find my strength to leave, and the old EP board was a huge help. Life now is about how I expected, but I didn't expect that 5 years on I would still be on my own. Dating has always been tough for me, but I honestly didn't think it would be this tough. Outside of the being hopelessly alone, life is good: I have my own place, a good job, and a great group of friends that keeps me busy on the weekends, sometimes I travel. Was it scary leaving? Yes. Was it worth it? Yes. Edit to add: We have mutual friends and I see him occasionally. When I see him, there are no feelings of regret, no desire to be back with him.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 29, 2018 10:13:55 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. There are definitely two such cases - Sisters @smartkat and Caris , both fairly regular contributors to the group. Possibly a 3rd misssunnybunny (tho I think she now days is happier than she was in her ILIASM deal, but not necessarily ecstatically happy) They may be reticent to discuss this, as they may figure that they'd get a heap of advice about 'what they should do' which they don't particularly want - and they're probably right. On a slightly different tac, when Sister bballgirl floated her idea of going back to her ex (after being out and conducting herself as a single for quite a while) my recollection is that I told her she was "fucking nuts" or words to that effect. Which gives you some idea of how much notice to take of my opinions. Whereas the overwhelming evidence is that people carve out better lives post ILIASM shitholes, it would be naive and unrealistic to think or assume that will be true for all. And of course, different people assess things on different metrics. One persons version of success is not necessarily the next persons view of success. If you go the divorce route, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour, but there is not, nor can there be, any guarantee. There is also a significant number of people who have left this sight, and ocasionally pop back in. These are the ones who are now divorced, and or seeing someone else. cagedtiger@ GeekGodess@ ggold@ lynn@ shamwow@ smartkat@ smilin61@ tamara68@ just to name a few. These same people where on here almost daily when they where in the thick of their new found knowledge of a hopeless ,SM. They gave and received while here.
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Post by baza on Apr 29, 2018 17:50:35 GMT -5
Sisters nyartgal , WindSister , GeekGoddess and bballgirl and some others all make the common point. That being that whether you are staying, leaving, or something else, your future all hinges on your willingness to sort your own shit out, irrespective of your marital status and irrespective of the quality of your marriage. If you sort your own shit out, you raise your chances of having a greatly enhanced life exponentially.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2018 22:54:27 GMT -5
Yes, I would much prefer having a partner over being single. And I’m not going to apologize for that.
The first 6 or 7 years with Mr. Kat were the happiest years of my entire life, with the possible exception of college.
It wasn’t “all great bar the sex.” But even after his health problems surfaced, I still loved him. Maybe that’s why I’m finding the dating phase so unfulfilling. Of course the feelings you have when you’re doing a lot of casual dating are not the same as the feelings you have when you can relax with a steady partner, yet they still arouse you.
After I separated from Mr. Kat and began dating again, I realized something: having had a wonderful full-time steady relationship makes dating and casual sex fall very damn short in comparison.
Before Mr. Kat, dating and casual sex seemed fine, or at least OK - because at that time, I didn’t know anything better.
In the past two years, I’ve dated a lot of men. At least one of them became serious about me; but because I did not return his feelings, I thought it would be wrong to hold onto him just for the sake of having a relationship.
Good relationship > being single/dating/casual sex > bad relationship.
It’s up to each one of us to define “good” and “bad” for ourselves.
If you are unhappy, I can only tell you what works to get me out of that funk. One thing is to find something you can enjoy that doesn’t depend on another person’s whims. For me, reading and writing seem to work. I’m also fortunate enough to live near the ocean. There’s not much wrong that being at the beach can’t make better.
The other thing that helps me is to reach out and be kind to someone else who’s in pain. I don’t know why that works, but it works for me.
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Post by baza on Apr 30, 2018 0:25:25 GMT -5
Nor should you apologise Sister @smartkat . It is a perfectly valid position to take.
In my mind (such as it is) your vacating your deal was a big success in and of itself. It freed you up for the opportunities, responsibilities and risks of a single person. You gave yourself a shot, and in terms of employment, locality, your writing and reading etc you got a pay off.
As it turns out, it seems that the opportunities (as far as blokes go) have thus far been pretty sparse but even there you have played your cards pretty well, and that game has further hands to play out.
But, as you correctly point out - "It’s up to each one of us to define “good” and “bad” for ourselves". In my mind, right here and now, you are a success. And it is highly likely that there is more to come in the @smartkat story.
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Post by Caris on May 3, 2018 12:59:43 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. There are definitely two such cases - Sisters @smartkat and Caris , both fairly regular contributors to the group. Possibly a 3rd misssunnybunny (tho I think she now days is happier than she was in her ILIASM deal, but not necessarily ecstatically happy) They may be reticent to discuss this, as they may figure that they'd get a heap of advice about 'what they should do' which they don't particularly want - and they're probably right. On a slightly different tac, when Sister bballgirl floated her idea of going back to her ex (after being out and conducting herself as a single for quite a while) my recollection is that I told her she was "fucking nuts" or words to that effect. Which gives you some idea of how much notice to take of my opinions. Whereas the overwhelming evidence is that people carve out better lives post ILIASM shitholes, it would be naive and unrealistic to think or assume that will be true for all. Much of it will be determined on how well you've done in sorting your own shit out. And of course, different people assess things on different metrics. One persons version of success is not necessarily the next persons view of success. If you go the divorce route, the odds are overwhelmingly in your favour, but there is not, nor can there be, any guarantee. Baz, I do not regret getting out when I did. The only regret I have is that it had to come to that in the first place. I had to get out, and it was the best decision for me given my circumstances. I don’t regret anything being single, but my life as a single woman has not turned out as I had expected. The loneliness, the rejection, no intimacy and affection in the marriage continues as a single. No deep connections, (and not for want of trying), but it hasn’t happened. It’s 4-years, and I am trying to resign myself to growing old alone. There is a tiny spark of hope that one day, I’ll meet a compatible man, but I’m not holding my breath. It makes for a lonely life, but I do my best to deal with this solitude.
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Post by saarinista on May 3, 2018 15:31:33 GMT -5
Caris hold on to that spark of hope and try to fan the flames. I KNOW it's hard. I'm the worst pessimist at times. And just try to get out there and make friends of all types and genders. I feel your pain, but you cannot know for sure that you will not find happiness again. So keep hope alive.
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Post by richfairy72 on May 3, 2018 22:13:37 GMT -5
Being lonely but free beats being lonely in an SM every time for me. I know I still need to work on my own issues a little more, but a year on, I am calmer and better alone. You need to love and know yourself before you can truly move on. For the record, I have met someone who I thought was the love of my life. Sadly circumstances have got in the way, and I guess he didn't feel the same. But I still don't regret leaving a difficult marriage without intimacy of mind or body. I guess at least I can say that I AM attractive to someone else, I CAN love and be loved. Still little consolation to a broken heart, but I guess we are all works in progress, and at least being out of my SM allows me to LIVE! I will never let a man dictate my life again. So, if you're still in your SM, be kind to yourself....it messes with your head....don't feel you are beyond hope. That's no reason to accept a bad relationship.
I have found writing a list of how far I've come, and the positives in my life has helped me stop looking back. Nobody says it's an easy process, but freedom still tastes sweet.
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Post by baza on May 4, 2018 0:59:39 GMT -5
Well, as the thread has unfolded, there are two of the members who it was "thought" were unhappier out of their ILIASM deals than they were in their ILIASM deals have, in their own words, said different. One saying unequivocally - "I have zero regrets leaving my marriage" The other saying - " I do not regret getting out when I did" So Sister surfergirl - whereas earlier in the thread I claimed that there were at least 3 such stories you could have a look at where - "Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving?" as you asked, it would seem that I was quite wrong. There are actually few, if any such stories. Which again sheets home the observation I have made before, that being that I am yet to see a story in here from an escapee from an ILIASM shithole saying - "well that turned out to be a rotten choice". Your risk in getting out and once the dust has settled ending up unhappier than you were is extra-ordinarily low. So if you (or any other member) ends up choosing to get out, are you guaranteed the same, or better, result ? Absolutely NOT. No-one gets a guarantee. PS Nor would the fact that other escapees have moved on to happier lives make a good case for anyone to charge off willy-nilly for the exit. Leaving has to be a decision that stands up all by itself as being in your longer term best interests. This is serious shit, and you wouldn't want to leave "just because that's what nyartgal or filtermachine did". You want to leave because it is in *your* longer term best interests to do so. And if you DON'T see leaving as being in your longer term best interests, then you probably should not leave.
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Post by Caris on May 4, 2018 11:51:51 GMT -5
Caris hold on to that spark of hope and try to fan the flames. I KNOW it's hard. I'm the worst pessimist at times. And just try to get out there and make friends of all types and genders. I feel your pain, but you cannot know for sure that you will not find happiness again. So keep hope alive. You are right in that no one can know the future. I can only go on 64-years of experience, and how hard it was to find love with a compatible partner in that time. I found one, which didn’t last long as he was killed. I don’t think of myself as a pessimist, but a realist. I look at the facts, the evidence, the history, and experiences, and draw my conclusions (or at least the odds of something happening or not) from these, but who knows. And of course, my own personality and value system plays a large part too. Given that in my age group women far outnumber available men, then the odds are not in my favor. However, I’m aiming low for now. I told my therapist that I won’t focus on a relationship, but having one date. You can’t get much lower than that to start with. How I get a date, I don’t know, but I’m also not losing sleep over it. Thanks for your support.
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Post by misssunnybunny on May 4, 2018 15:41:07 GMT -5
For me, leaving was a long process. I probably drove some folks nuts on the old forum on EP, as I took tiny little steps However, that was my process, the path I needed to follow. I know I did everything I could do to try and fix it, only to find it was irreparable. Everyone's is different, and we can read here and take/leave advice as we feel it applies to us; our decision to leave or stay has to be ours alone. Reading and posting here is a great place to get support and encouragement, and I am so appreciative to have found it several years ago and how I was helped along in my process. That said, life has not been all sunshine and rainbows. The high of being divorced (I'm FREE!!) soon led to dealing with real life, and all the related stresses of managing my life and home all by myself. Small decisions seemed huge, and I fretted over them more than necessary (!). Over the past few years I have had a couple of big life changes, difficult to handle emotionally. However, I have a great support system and this has helped along the way. I know that dealing with these situations would have been so much worse if I was still married and already being in a shitty emotional state because of the SM and the way my ex treated me. So, in the long run, it was much better for me to have made the choice to leave. Overall, I am much better off than I would be right now if I had stayed. For those thinking of leaving, take your time. Talk to a lawyer (if only to see how things would shake out legally in your jurisdiction). Seek counseling, if that is your thing. Read here, and write here if so inclined. Most of all, take care of yourself.
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littlelamb
Junior Member
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Posts: 56
Age Range: 26-30
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Post by littlelamb on May 4, 2018 17:02:13 GMT -5
It was easy for me to move on after my first marriage/divorce...it was the best thing I could do for myself and I'm glad that it ended. This time feels so different, I guess it's not something that gets easier... I feel we'd both be fine standing on our own...but I can't get myself to 100% believe for very long that it's the right decision this time.
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Post by baza on May 4, 2018 21:11:29 GMT -5
It was easy for me to move on after my first marriage/divorce...it was the best thing I could do for myself and I'm glad that it ended. This time feels so different, I guess it's not something that gets easier... I feel we'd both be fine standing on our own...but I can't get myself to 100% believe for very long that it's the right decision this time. I get the feeling that you are at a pretty low spot at the moment Sister littlelamb and I don't want to be too harsh lest you think that I am laying the boots into you whilst you are already down. The picture your posts have thus far painted in respect to your husband is a pretty ugly one. He does not seem to be much of a human being, let alone an appropriate person as a husband and/or father. That's how it comes across anyway. I think you have a responsibility here to protect your best interests (short and long term) and the best interests of your yet to be born child. As you have described him, and his issues with the law, and his status as a registered sex offender, his controlling and manipulative behaviour it is extra-ordinarily difficult to see how having him in your life could possibly be in your (and your kids') best interests. Either short term or long term.
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