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Post by baza on Apr 28, 2018 4:25:44 GMT -5
You are in an ILIASM shithole. You know that it is only going to get worse. So your options are pretty stark. (a) - you stay - with or without the cheating variant (b) - you leave.
But whichever choice you make, staying or leaving , it has to stand up in its' own right. It has to be what is best for you, irrespective of whatever else in the way of peripheral issues that may be in play.
It can't be contingent on "staying, as long as I can find an affair partner" Or "leaving, as long as I can find a new bloke"
The choice to leave has to stand up all by itself. It has to be a choice that is made independent of other matters. It has to be a choice based on your longer term best interests, that leads to your enhanced life.
If it is the leaving option you are wrestling with, then you have to be in a mindset where you believe you would be happier as a single person, (with all the responsibilities and opportunities and risks that involves), than you are presently, locked into your ILIASM shithole.
Whether there is another person in that potential future of yours as a single are peripheral. Indeed that is an entirely separate issue, of no direct relevance to the staying/leaving question.
If you do not see being single (with all its' responsibilities and opportunities and risks) as being preferable to remaining in your ILIASM circumstance, you are really not ready for this drastic step. Yet. It is a step, a choice, that has to stand up in its' own right.
Same with the staying choice. That has to make sense all by itself too. You need to see this choice as being preferable to striking out on your own (with all the responsibilities and opportunities and risks that entails)
What you don't get to do is to "sit this one out". You HAVE to choose If you won't choose then by default you HAVE chosen, to remain in the status quo, to stay. And the consequences of that non-choice will accrue on you just as certainly as if you had deliberately chosen to stay.
It is all pretty stark - Option (a) - end the ILIASM shithole and take your chances as a single with all the responsibilities and opportunities and risks that involves. Option (b) - stay in the ILIASM shithole and avoid the responsibilities and opportunities and risks that leaving would involve.
Choice is a bitch, but no-one gets a pass on it.
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Post by baza on Apr 28, 2018 5:50:16 GMT -5
Really Brother @stalemate , everyone first joining here is at "staying". Over time, some people review their position, and some people, after brutally hard self examination, change their position. But everyone "starts" as a stayer. And, it takes you swallowing quite a few more shit sandwiches to get you seriously consider "not staying" and longer still to get your head around leaving. greatcoastal , shamwow , thebaffledking , nolongerlonely , Apocrypha - a handful of names for you. All "stayers" when they arrived. All have subsequently left their ILIASM shitholes.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 28, 2018 7:02:24 GMT -5
“Even though I know I will leave, for the moment, I have chosen to stay and then joined, so that makes me a stayer. I hadn’t thought of it completely in the pure binary sense of it.”
The best prediction of future behavior is past behavior.
And tomorrow is not guaranteed....
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Post by choosinghappy on Apr 28, 2018 7:04:06 GMT -5
@stalemate Do you NEED “a few more years of proof positive that it will only get worse” before you choose the other option (leaving)?
Do you have hope that even after 2 decades of no improvement that it will somehow start to improve in the next few years, and improve to a point that is enough for you to be happy in your marriage?
At this point it seems unlikely.
And that is the point at which I am at as well: Logically I know my situation will not improve and even if it does it will never be enough. Therefore the logical choice to make is to leave and open my life up to a (hopefully) happier life.
However, as we’ve seen here over and over again, most people do not leave a marriage until staying is worse than the challenges that come with leaving. I’m not sure my marriage would ever get to that “bad enough” point. We have a good life, I have many many reasons to stay. But what I don’t have is HOPE that it improve enough to make me truly happy.
I personally think that is the breaking point: when the hope is gone. (It’s debatable whether people stay due to realistic or unrealistic hopes but that’s not really the point.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if many others who had my nice, comfortable situation chose to stay. But for me, my hope is gone and that seems to be my deciding factor. Therefore, I am making the conscious choice to leave, despite all the good, so that I can have hope again.
That is what is most important to me.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 28, 2018 7:55:36 GMT -5
You can look back and find previous threads about tipping points/breaking points. Spouses words and actions. Many of them are strong confirmations of things that we kind of already knew but loomed below the surface.
Also things that where yellow flags are now clear red flags, once the FOG is lifted. (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)
For me a new attitude about being worthy of receiving, after decades of settling for crumbs, and constantly believing that my role and duty is to give, give, give, was a major turning point.
When it comes to timing there is only so much planning and scheduling in your control. Divorces can take months, or they can take years, jobs come and go, kids surprise you with their resilience to change,emotions come and go, but time keeps ticking. (Their is the two guarantees, death and taxes) Just put that in your back pocket for now as you decide when to take action.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Apr 28, 2018 8:41:55 GMT -5
Thank you for the op, baza. I agree with the fact that the choice is (must be) a stand alone choice. I wanted to leave & somehow “ensure” that my single life would be more fun, or better in some way than married life. But I read a post similar to this one (probably by you, likely on EP, because really nothing is new under the sun). And I knew then that “should I stay or should I go” had to be about what was inside my head, my heart, my “poor beat up self-esteem” instead of about where will I live, who can I date & how soon, won’t Ex eat crow once he sees me happy (etc etc). I got “my half” sort of (not quite completely), & more in his timeline than mine —- because my freedom to own my own life was (IS) more important than counting every single penny. I was willing to take what amounted to 1-2% less than I “deserved” in order to get my own heart free, get my spirit into an environment where I’m not hampered or abused (verbally, emotionally) by Ex. It ain’t all rainbows & unicorns. But I’m my own now. And I’ll take that. My emotional freedom is worth even more than the process “cost” me. And when I have a bad day, or when I miss the gardens at the old property—-I remember that feeling of not getting to BE, not “being allowed” to be a whole human worthy of respect - not treated with respect by my own husband! And I realize: it’s much better out here. For me it is. I don’t regret leaving at all.
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Post by surfergirl on Apr 28, 2018 8:51:33 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play.
Regarding the tipping point-- for me, it was on my 40th birthday. I asked him to remember because it was going to be emotional for me. I made lots of self-deprecating humor in the lead up. And then when the day came and we had our 20 minute phone call (we were in different states), he couldn't muster up a "happy birthday". Forget a card or a gift. There was nothing in the mail.
That's when I knew this wasn't the guy I wanted next to me on my death bed and holding my hand through cancer treatments. I knew it all along, but it was the best gift he ever could've given me: the truth.
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Post by richfairy72 on Apr 28, 2018 8:57:47 GMT -5
Really Brother @stalemate , everyone first joining here is at "staying". Over time, some people review their position, and some people, after brutally hard self examination, change their position. But everyone "starts" as a stayer. And, it takes you swallowing quite a few more shit sandwiches to get you seriously consider "not staying" and longer still to get your head around leaving. greatcoastal , shamwow , thebaffledking , nolongerlonely , Apocrypha - a handful of names for you. All "stayers" when they arrived. All have subsequently left their ILIASM shitholes. And me!! I found this forum thinking it would change my marriage. But the only change I was in control of was to leave. And, you're right, it throws up different problems. But the key is, after regaining proper clear thinking and steadier emotions, these problems are so easy to sort. There is nobody fucking your mind up any more, making every decision stressful or difficult. It's a huge, scary, bumpy journey, but focus on your goal.....ultimately to have calm and happiness, instead of angst and questioning. For some people, a positive decision to stay is valid, but Baz is right....it has to be whatever is best for you. And, having nearly reached the other end, I wish I'd done it sooner....BUT I can't change what is done. And all the shit has shaped who I now am. So,whether or not I find that new partner, I actually know I'm better off alone than with the WRONG person. And I understand myself so much better now that I Am Allowed to be who I want to be Keep Being the best You can be, wherever you are in the process.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 28, 2018 10:04:48 GMT -5
For the people thinking they will divorce in the future, which they assume will be a better time, do realize that this very time may be your best opportunity. Your health is not guaranteed. This includes your looks and ability to have sex. Your spouse's health, children's health, parents' health, etc. is not guaranteed. I had a friend who was killed along with his college student son when 2 trees fell on their car as they drove to the beach on a sunny day. I had a nonsmoking friend who at age 55 got lung cancer and 3 years later was dead. I have a friend who got MS in his early 50s. I have various friends who have had to take in grandkids or adult children who developed major health problems. And then there was the woman on ILIASM who developed major health problems just as she was preparing to leave her refuser.
Two years after I divorced my refuser, he got kidney cancer. I'm glad I'd divorced him beforehand. It would have been harder to end the marriage after he had a life threatening disease.
When I filed for divorce, my older son was in treatment for meth addiction. He learned about the upcoming divorce a month after completing treatment. There is no perfect time to divorce. And, for those who are wondering how the divorce affected him, learning about the divorce didn't cause him to go back into addiction even though our situation included a possible out of wedlock toddler brother. Five years later, that son is living a productive life and living with a girlfriend who seems to be a good person.
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Post by WindSister on Apr 28, 2018 10:12:00 GMT -5
I don't know, but have thoughts about those who seem to regret leaving.
Some people are in the "Never happy" camp. My mom is one of those, but from watching her, I have learned to cultivate contentment and gratitude in my own life, no matter where I am on the path.
I don't think it's a coincidence that I then find what makes me happy. It's actually kind of a no-brainer. But the Never Happy Campers seek, seek, seek....chase, Chase, chase..... then when the new also isn't making them happy, they reflect and glorify the past, a past in which they were ALSO unhappy in, but they seem to conveniently ignore that fact.
Then you have those who leave FOR someone else. This could go either way, simply because relationships can either thrive or die. If it dies, they turn regretful for their choice of leaving.
I don't know, those are just a couple reasons off the top of my head. I'm sure there are others.
So, I agree, it has to be a stand alone reason.
I was grateful every step of the way, even those nights I found myself curled up on the bathroom floor ugly-crying.
I'm glad I recognized my life, my happiness, is mine to create and own.
I left with everything I owned fitting in my SUV. Never felt so alive! 7 years later I recovered. Finances back on track, have assets, as meager as they are, retirement doing some fun upward action. But, I hold on loosely, because it can all poof in an instant. I would not choose stuff over peace of mind or heart. I'd move into a one bedroom apartment if I had to, and still find reasons for joy everyday. Not just saying this. I've done it. I know.
Not saying people have to do it my way. Most don't. Just sharing.
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Post by decisionsdecisions on Apr 28, 2018 10:12:02 GMT -5
Thank you baza for such clarity - just what I need today. I'm definitely coming round to feeling that later in life I will regret staying so long. I can handle the responsibilities of singledom - I've been there in the past. of course it comes with risks but by staying I shut the door on opportunities that may allow me to find fulfilment that is lacking in my current situation.
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Post by nyartgal on Apr 28, 2018 13:25:49 GMT -5
I left at 39 assuming it meant I'd never have children. Within a year I was totally in love and pregnant! I'm glad I didn't wait.
@windsister, that is so true about the "never happy" people. There are a few here who are clearly depressed or have serious issues. Wherever you go, there you are. If you're a person who always sees the glass half empty, you'll be that way regardless of being in a SM marriage. If you feel unloveable, you won't feel more loveable just from getting divorced. So part of the decision making process has to be an honest self-assessment. Am I willing to do the work to figure out my shit, regardless of this marriage?
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Post by ironhamster on Apr 28, 2018 14:44:22 GMT -5
My staying option went through the metamorphosis of 1) Staying and being miserable, 2) staying but pressuring my wife to do things she didn't want to do, 3) staying but asking my reluctant wife for an open relationship, and finally, 4) staying but getting the intimacy I needed outside the marriage.
I did not want to end the marriage until after my last daughter was eighteen. My wife, who never saw any lack of integrity in refusing to be a complete wife suddenly declared that divorcing was the only way she could live with integrity. She filed.
Dare I say it, but I am far more comfortable with leaving than she is regarding her ability to make it even with my alimony payments.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2018 21:05:28 GMT -5
Is there anyone here who can share a story of regretting leaving? I'm curious about the factors in play. I know someone from the old EP board as well as here, who regrets leaving and is taking steps to reconcile with her ex. When I asked her if she would share her story on here she said that she wouldn't because she felt she would be negatively judged by many people on this forum and didn't want to deal with that. I think she's right. And that's a shame, because everyone needs to know the downsides as well, even if a very high percentage of (mostly self-selecting) people here do not regret their decisions to leave.
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Post by surfergirl on Apr 28, 2018 21:11:42 GMT -5
@shynjdude
Will she pm you her story so you can post it anonymously?
I think both sides are important.
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